Retrieving Discs

[Major Tomahawk]

A couple of weeks ago I played in a tourney that had a gimmicky hole. It was relatively short, but was on top of a mound about the size of an overpass for cars. It was only safe on the flat part (top of mound). The front side and back side of the hills were buncrs (is that how you spell it, Chuck?). Players had to go to the drop zone if in the buncr.

My first drive went into the buncr. From the buncr I got a crazy roller off of the back of the hill and it went ob. My next shot went over the green again and into the buncr. From the drop zone I proceeded to throw my next two shots in the buncr again, just inches from the safe green.

As you can expect, I'm not too happy right now and I have to climb the hill to get the two discs that I want to use from the drop zone.

I did not want to climb the hill, so I told the guys on the green to "kick" my discs down the hill to me, which they did. Since there isn't anything about kicking discs to other players, I assumed it was OK. The kicked discs rolled sweetly down the hill to my waiting hands. I went to the DZ and calmly and masterfully got up and down for an 8.

Did I cheat? See ya Monday for responses...

 

[JC17393]

I'm sure you went with kicking the discs to save the players the worry of being assessed penalties for practice throws, but I don't think it works that way. The rule book defines a throw as "[t]he propulsion of a disc by a player that results in a new lie" and that a practice throw is "[a] throw of more than two meters during a competitive round that does not change the lie". Says nothing about how the propulsion of the disc is generated (hand, foot, mouth, etc), so I'd argue that kicking the disc is technically throwing the disc. Especially if the kick is with the intent of moving the disc and not an accident.

So did you cheat? Not in such a way that you can or should be penalized (the guys who did the kicking are really the ones in danger of penalties). Were you lazy? Oh yeah. You threw the discs into the buncr and wanted to throw those discs again...it should be on you to retrieve them, even if it's a matter of meeting the others halfway so they can hand you your discs.

 

[kerplunk]

This brings up something interesting. I could imagine a one in a million scenario where kicking a disc may be the best option. Seems like it would be legal. Has anyone ever heard of someone doing this?

 

[Steve West]

The other aspect is that maybe those players started acting as your caddy when they started delivering your discs. If so, the throwing penalties they incurred would be added to your score. That seems more fair than giving them the penalties.

And yes, kicking is throwing.

QA 29: Legal Throwing Styles
Q:

Are there any restrictions on how you throw the disc? For example, can you throw nothing but overhand shots?
A:

There are no restrictions on how you throw the disc. You may throw backhand, sidearm, overhand, thumber, or any other way that occurs to you. You can throw it with your foot if that works for you. Note: That also means that kicking the disc can be penalized as a practice throw. Applicable Rules: 800.02 Definitions ("Throw").

 

[DavidSauls]

It might be more fair, Steve, but if you start defining caddy like that, the course is going to be full of them. Everytime somebody picks up a disc, from the basket or OB or an unused provisional, and carries it to the owner, they're a caddy? I like it, because the other players are usually beating me, and I'd like a caddy's cut of their winnings. But, of course, there's the danger that everyone will want a caddy's cut of their winnings, and there'll be scuffles breaking out to retrieve discs of the leader.....

Sorry, I got carried away there.

 

[DavidSauls]

This brings up something interesting. I could imagine a one in a million scenario where kicking a disc may be the best option. Seems like it would be legal. Has anyone ever heard of someone doing this?

The trick, of course, is kicking a disc for your throw, while avoid a stance violation.

The temptation would be to do it on one of those sunken baskets, when your disc stopped right on the edge.

 

[joecoin]

Drop kick, punt, place kick?

 

[Steve West]

It might be more fair, Steve, but if you start defining caddy like that, the course is going to be full of them. Everytime somebody picks up a disc, from the basket or OB or an unused provisional, and carries it to the owner, they're a caddy? I like it, because the other players are usually beating me, and I'd like a caddy's cut of their winnings. But, of course, there's the danger that everyone will want a caddy's cut of their winnings, and there'll be scuffles breaking out to retrieve discs of the leader.....

Sorry, I got carried away there.

Defining caddy is tricky. I don't think the threshold for sharing prizes would be the same as for invoking penalties on the one being caddied for.

I think the nightmare scenario is no player would ever want someone else to help him, fearing that a person pulling the player's disc out of the basket might hit their head and cuss and get a courtesy violation for the player whose disc is being retrieved.

On the other hand, if a player told someone to follow his group and yell every time someone else in the group threw (like the guy in Happy Gilmore), I would want the player to be penalized, even if the heckler never carried the player's discs.

In this case, asking someone to commit an infraction so the player can be lazy, maybe both players should get penalized.

What if the request had been to remove a small tree that was in the way of a throw?

 

[Cgkdisc]

An example of a kick being a throw happened at the 2006 Am Worlds in Tulsa. A marshal (not me) was walking back toward HQ when they noticed a player kick their disc on the ground in anger after muffing their drive. The kicked disc went over 100 ft. The marshal walked over and assessed the player with a practice throw.

 

[netposer]

Drop kick, punt, place kick?

Only a place kick would be legal. If you drop kicked or punted that mean your foot would be interfering with the disc after you "threw" it.

 

[Pwingles]

Only a place kick would be legal. If you drop kicked or punted that mean your foot would be interfering with the disc after you "threw" it.

i feel like youre just saying things

 

[araytx]

An example of a kick being a throw happened at the 2006 Am Worlds in Tulsa. A marshal (not me) was walking back toward HQ when they noticed a player kick their disc on the ground in anger after muffing their drive. The kicked disc went over 100 ft. The marshal walked over and assessed the player with a practice throw.

The one he just muffed or a different disc?

 

[Cgkdisc]

The one he just muffed or a different disc?

I don't know for sure. I just heard the story from the marshal.

 

[sidewinder22]

Only a place kick would be legal. If you drop kicked or punted that mean your foot would be interfering with the disc after you "threw" it.

...but a drop is not a throw.