right pec drill, questions on standstill and one step throws

[BarrabusTheDiscGolfGnome]

I have begun working from the hit back for the last week. So far I am impressed with the distance I am able to get on some throws from standstill and some one step throws but most of the time my throws either turn and crash out to the right or pop up and stall out around 200-230. My questions are:

1) When I throw from a standstill (disc at right pec, feet together, uncoil down the arm keeping the disc tight to the body) I sometimes am able to get a disc pretty far, around 250-270 (estimated distance) but a lot of the time I just don't feel the same power generation and get considerably less distance. I concentrate on getting my weight over the disc, a good pull tight to the body and I try to kick my back foot up and clear my hip (though I don't think I get it all the time) and it still just doesn't seem to generate any power at all. What could I be doing wrong? I know its hard to diagnose without video but give me some more things to think about please!!

2) I struggle with nose down. I try to maintain a nose down wrist position and I try to position the top of my wrist slightly past horizontal (which I believe is the correct position to throw hyzer?). any advice here would be appreciated.

oh, I throw RHBH.

 

[chris841]

i know were your at in this, i have beeen trying the same thing myself as i feel my walkup makes my drives inconsistant at times, for me standing still definatley gives me consistant results be they good or bad lol, once you get your form down though definatley go back to a walkup as it does definatley adds considerable distance to your shot, and when you do start doing a walkup do a slow walkup, it helped me.

something i just found recently that has helped me to get the nose down is to pull thru high to low, in other words start your pull thru high ( just above the nipple ) keep your elbow slightly raised and pull thru at a slight downward angle, this keeps you from pulling over the top, and over turning the disc, an issue i have been struggling with, and gives you a nose down flight, one other thing you mentioned angling your wrist away from you to keep the nose down and tilting the nose slightly up to anyhyzer the flight, with this pull thru techniche try keeping the top of your wrist tilted away from you, as well as keep your wrist tilted down so the nose edge of the disc is tilted down, you would think that you wouldnt be able to anhyzer this way but if your throwing discs with orc like stability, it will anhyzer and the nose will be down so you can get your max distance, i hope this helps.

 

[masterbeato]

to get nose down throw weight forward and pull tight!

 

[black udder]

it takes time and practice. Once you know what feeling you're shooting for, you can try and do whatever it takes to repeat the action.

What you'll end up is similar distances to start with, but with much less effort. Then, with more effort, you'll end up with better results.

 

[phisherman77]

i know were your at in this, i have beeen trying the same thing myself as i feel my walkup makes my drives inconsistant at times, for me standing still definatley gives me consistant results be they good or bad lol, once you get your form down though definatley go back to a walkup as it does definatley adds considerable distance to your shot, and when you do start doing a walkup do a slow walkup, it helped me.

something i just found recently that has helped me to get the nose down is to pull thru high to low, in other words start your pull thru high ( just above the nipple ) keep your elbow slightly raised and pull thru at a slight downward angle, this keeps you from pulling over the top, and over turning the disc, an issue i have been struggling with, and gives you a nose down flight, one other thing you mentioned angling your wrist away from you to keep the nose down and tilting the nose slightly up to anyhyzer the flight, with this pull thru techniche try keeping the top of your wrist tilted away from you, as well as keep your wrist tilted down so the nose edge of the disc is tilted down, you would think that you wouldnt be able to anhyzer this way but if your throwing discs with orc like stability, it will anhyzer and the nose will be down so you can get your max distance, i hope this helps.

those are two freakin' long sentences!

 

[BarrabusTheDiscGolfGnome]

So what does it feel/look like to throw weight forward? I try to position my chin over my knee which is over the balls of my feet. I think this is the correct body position. By weight forward do you mean that all my weight should be on my plant foot or do you guys mean I should be leaning over at the waist to position my face closer to the disc? I will watch the Beato video again and try to memorize how Dan lines up his body.
I got out to the field yesterday and threw fifty or so standstill throws and I couldn't get anything to fly nose down. On the upside though everything went out straight and faded out early as opposed to turning at about 150-200 feet. I think I may have cleaned up some OAT (I have serious wrist roll/ shoulder plane issues) more practice is needed but at least I can throw straight (sorta) or hyzer now instead of just torquing everything over.

Thanks to Masterbeato, Black Udder, and everyone for chiming in. MORE PLEASE!!!

 

[garublador1]

Try starting with one step and a bit more reach back to get the feel of how to shift your weight. Sometimes it takes a little help to get that feel down. Once you get that, then try the right pec drill incorporating the feel of the weight shift.

 

[BarrabusTheDiscGolfGnome]

Great!! thanks so much for that. I was taking some one step throws and feeling much better, still nose up but got much more power that way. I felt like I was cheating on my homework though. I am supposed to be practicing the right pec drill and there I was not doing the drill the way it is supposed to be done. It is good to know that the one step w/ slight reach back is ok (I was trying to throw with no reach back). At least until I get a feel for getting my weight shifted forward.

Now, should I incorporate hip/shoulder turn (feels like I have to or else I cant throw the disc) or should the disc just move down my arm without my torso rotating at all? Judging from the video, Masterbeato seems to turn the torso and follow through with the left arm. Should I be doing this? Also, I am still wondering if I should be leaning forward at the waist so as to get more of my torso over the disc.

I know I have a ton of questions but I really wanna get this right. I read and read and search and then read some more, then I watch the videos again, then I go to the field in the pouring rain with a sinus infection in 30 degree weather and throw for three hours and then I come home and start reading the forums again. Long story short I have become a fiend and I will not stop until I can throw teebirds 350. Thank you guys, all of you for having seemingly endless patience with the noobs like me.

 

[black udder]

...but got much more power that way.

remember - this isn't a power drill. A distance of 100'-150' would be successful. This is more about getting the relaxed feel and the idea of what it's like to accellerate late and implement wrist snap.

The exercise should be fairly relaxed and repeated until you can gain those type of distance with ease. Then, you can add some reachback for further distances. To increase over that, add lower body rotation.

 

[black udder]

Now, should I incorporate hip/shoulder turn (feels like I have to or else I cant throw the disc) or should the disc just move down my arm without my torso rotating at all? Judging from the video, Masterbeato seems to turn the torso and follow through with the left arm. Should I be doing this? Also, I am still wondering if I should be leaning forward at the waist so as to get more of my torso over the disc.

I would start throwing with no rotation. Just throw it down your arm until you feel the wrist action start happening. It shouldn't take long. Once you feel that, then add some shoulder rotation and try to keep the wrist snap. Once you have shoulder rotation with wrist snap, then add your lower body rotation and weight forward mechanics. Once you can do all that smoothly, you can add a 1 step or just lean back on your off foot and then plant and pull. From there, work to 1 step, then 2 step, then x-step. Give yourself a year of working on the standing stuff before you expect to get anything solid on the x-step. The standing throw should see results as soon as you "get it" (re: the mechanics of throwing). Then it's just a matter of throwing enough to improve your accuracy and the consistency with which you can throw with high power and still have accuracy.

 

[BarrabusTheDiscGolfGnome]

I think this is gonna take a long time....I played a round today with a buddy who is pretty good and he noticed that I still get no lower body involved in my swing. Mostly throwing with high armspeed and low snap. Turning things over badly or stalling the disc out seemed to be the only two options I had. Lots of field practice and nothing to show for it makes Gnome a sad imaginary creature. My putting was okay though so at least that part of my game is improving.

Quick question, I just read that true hyzer is thrown by bending forward at the waist. How does this work? I have always tried to alter the plane of the swing (ie pull from low to high) and the orientation of the top of the forearm to position a disc to fly hyzer (of course the shot usually flies nose up and stalls so I must have it wrong!). Someone enlighten me please.

 

[seanzerelli]

Bending backwards or forwards just increases the anhyzer and hyzer angles, respectively. This way you can keep the same pull line for different shots. Adjusting your wrist position/pull line also accomplishes this.

You can see it in just about every disc golf throw. Namely the USDGC distance video, I think Garret Guthrie throws with the most hyzer. You can see the different things he's doing to accomplish it and still come through with power. Pure hyzers though, I'm not so sure I could pick them out, if that means zero OAT.

 

[Beetard]

It's easier to pick up on if someone shows you in person, but you can see what I was talking about in this picture from Blake's shot telegraphing article.
http://discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/telegraphing.shtml

Notice how in the throwing flat picture that the guy is standing nearly straight up.

In the throwing hyzer picture, he is using the same pull line, just leaning forward. The angle the disc is at is the same as his back. He's got 30 degrees of hyzer because he's leaning forward 30 degrees.

Finally in the anhyzer picture, he is leaning back slightly and the angle of the disc mirrors that. A genuine anhyzer is the most difficult shot to throw correctly.

 

[mark12b]

Quick question, I just read that true hyzer is thrown by bending forward at the waist. How does this work? I have always tried to alter the plane of the swing (ie pull from low to high) and the orientation of the top of the forearm to position a disc to fly hyzer (of course the shot usually flies nose up and stalls so I must have it wrong!). Someone enlighten me please.

when you bend forward at the waist and pull on the same line that you do with a flat shot (parallel to the nipples), you *do* kind of pull from low to high... pulling low and following through high, at least. if you visualize the plane of the throw you can see that if you tilt it down in front of you, the back tilts up.

 

[mzuleger]

It's easier to pick up on if someone shows you in person, but you can see what I was talking about in this picture from Blake's shot telegraphing article.
http://discgolfreview.com/resources/articles/telegraphing.shtml

Notice how in the throwing flat picture that the guy is standing nearly straight up.

In the throwing hyzer picture, he is using the same pull line, just leaning forward. The angle the disc is at is the same as his back. He's got 30 degrees of hyzer because he's leaning forward 30 degrees.

Finally in the anhyzer picture, he is leaning back slightly and the angle of the disc mirrors that. A genuine anhyzer is the most difficult shot to throw correctly.

This is very strange to me... is it just me or do the pics and descriptions for hyzer look like it should be anhyzer and vice versa (as far as disc position)?

 

[BarrabusTheDiscGolfGnome]

I think I am leaning back when I throw, which should cause the disc to fly anhyzer (this happens 2 out of 5 throws). I will focus more on getting my chin over my toes or farther forward depending on how much hyzer I need.

How can I tell if I am rolling my wrist? I think this my also be a problem of mine. I started out throwing really stable discs when I was introduced to the game, the first drivers I ever had were CE Eagle-L (not super stable but to a noodle arm noob with no form it sure felt it!), X-Clone, and a DX Banshee. I think I read somewhere that wrist roll is one way to make overstable plastic fly straight if you don't have the correct form/power to get it up to speed. If this is true then I am pretty sure some of this has worked its way into my swing. I want it gone!

In other news...I just found out I have access to a video camera!! It is not top of the line but the picture is quite good. In the next few days I will try and post a video so I can get more help.

 

[JR]

I think I am leaning back when I throw, which should cause the disc to fly anhyzer (this happens 2 out of 5 throws). I will focus more on getting my chin over my toes or farther forward depending on how much hyzer I need.

How can I tell if I am rolling my wrist? I think this my also be a problem of mine. I started out throwing really stable discs when I was introduced to the game, the first drivers I ever had were CE Eagle-L (not super stable but to a noodle arm noob with no form it sure felt it!), X-Clone, and a DX Banshee. I think I read somewhere that wrist roll is one way to make overstable plastic fly straight if you don't have the correct form/power to get it up to speed. If this is true then I am pretty sure some of this has worked its way into my swing. I want it gone!

In other news...I just found out I have access to a video camera!! It is not top of the line but the picture is quite good. In the next few days I will try and post a video so I can get more help.

Video is great for immediate feedback as long as it's zoomed in close enough with good enough of a resolution. You can also check where your thumb is pointed at in the follow through. Not as accurate though. Once you identify wrist roll you can often feel it and if a disc seems to fly oddly often times one can remember how the wrist felt and then it's forehead slapping time.

 

[gretagun]

This is very strange to me... is it just me or do the pics and descriptions for hyzer look like it should be anhyzer and vice versa (as far as disc position)?

The disc positions are correct. The guy in the picture has extended the disc all the way back and is ready to throw it towards the target. It's like you are standing behind him while he is at the end of his reachback. I got confused for a second the first time I saw the pic too

 

[mzuleger]

This is very strange to me... is it just me or do the pics and descriptions for hyzer look like it should be anhyzer and vice versa (as far as disc position)?

The disc positions are correct. The guy in the picture has extended the disc all the way back and is ready to throw it towards the target. It's like you are standing behind him while he is at the end of his reachback. I got confused for a second the first time I saw the pic too

ahhhhh.... I see it now, thanks. that was dumb of me.

 

[BarrabusTheDiscGolfGnome]

I went to the field today and threw for about an hour and a half. Started out with standstill right pec throws with no reach back. I threw putters and mid ranges for these throws. I got decent results but I am still having timing issues I believe. My shoulders aren't in sync with the speed that my arm uncoils (at least that's what it feels like). I end up grip locking and releasing way right usually on an anhyzer line. On some of my throws I was able to keep a wizard on a nice hyzer line to about 100-120 feet. No flat throws without nose up have been achieved from a standstill position as yet.

After warming up a bit and taking the standstill throws I decided to try a series of one step and then an x-step throws. The majority of these throws were with gazelles and teebirds both DX. The one step throws were okay. More straight flights but still with nose up, after I got my weight forward better and started to get my hip around I did a little better (maybe ten or fifteen more feet of D). I was throwing a lot of shots on low apexes and I did not intend to do so. I would hyzer flip a gazelle/teebird but the apex of the flight was maybe 15-20 feet and then it would crash nose down straight, no fade, just dove into the dirt and skidded for 10-15 feet.

One thing that seemed extremely positive: While taking a full X-step I "primed the disc" (Blake and Bradley Walker have discussed this) by presenting the disc to the point of the hit then reaching back and pulling through to hit at the point the disc previously stopped. This appears to have helped my timing tremendously!!!!!!! I still need to incorporate a more explosive hip turn and nail down my hip/shoulder turn timing, but this simple action allowed me to throw 15-20 feet further!
I cannot wait to post video of my throw so I can get more input from knowledgeable folks.

Now for the question:

If I am using less reach back and pulling close to the chest shouldn't my accuracy be improving? I am still spraying discs inside of a 30-40 foot circle with some outlying shots that just went completely haywire. I don't feel like my throw (even slow smooth throws) are as accurate as I have been led to believe bent elbow throws are. Trying to punch to the target (as MB says in his video) while practicing up shots generally resulted in some wild flight pattern that was not at all what I had planned. Does this just indicate that I haven't fully grasped the technique?