Adontalis
Newbie
Also, when you do get that 3 on the 750' hole, you feel pretty awesome!
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Score Keeping (Pro vs Amateur)
- Thread starter Ghetto Leprechaun
- Start date
Only if you're dumb enough to put more stock in silly words than the much easier numerical system already provided. I think anyone who has been around the block enough knows there are holes that you're happy to get a 4, or even a 5 on, and that most people who call "everything is par 3" are just doing it to make score keeping simpler.
In other words, since a par '4' and a bogey '4' add up the same, no it doesn't matter.
souljacker
Newbie
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2010
- Messages
- 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by souljacker View Post
If par on an 18 hole course is 54 and I shoot a 56 yep I just shot a 56. You guy are smart on that point, I'll give that to you. But if par is 54 on a course I want to shoot 52 or less not 56 or more, so yes par does matter when I am trying to 'beat the course' or to evaluate how I played against the average, or as they say against what is 'par'. jeeze.
well if we don't know the par, then yea we are essentially making it up when we call them all par 3, but that is not the point.
I dont understand where some of these opinions are coming from. I get the logic, but I dont understand it.
When I play, I want to play well. I dont always, in fact I frequently dont, but when I go out there I am doing it because I love it, and I love it more when I know I am throwing well and earning a good score. A good score means a lower score. Hopefully lower than par, even though on a several courses my best is well over par, I am aiming to get lower. Sure I could make it up. Hey this first hole is a par 10 and I scored a 3! I am seven under! I am killing it today!! :doh: But c'mon, really!?
So here is a question to those who dont care about par. I guess you are saying that you just want to beat your own scores or the people you are playing with. (or maybe you dont, maybe scoring does not matter at all to you? is that it? so be it). But if you throw 66. 66. 68. this week and next week you throw 65. 64. 60. You are happy cause you got your scores lower. Well what if par on the course is 55, dont you want to know that and work to get your score down there? 66 might be good for you, but it's not great overall on a par 55 course. So if you know par is 10 strokes less than that, wouldn't you play harder and improve by trying to beat that?
Honestly I am just trying to understand why some of you dont think par matters because I have never played with anybody who thought that way. Everybody I know plays to: beat their best score, beat their opponent, and beat the course average (par) And No that is not to say we are hard core a-holes that only care about score, it means we are out to have fun and play our best based on these (and other) factors.
edit: i talking about all those hypothetical scores on the same course just to be clear
Originally Posted by souljacker View Post
If par on an 18 hole course is 54 and I shoot a 56 yep I just shot a 56. You guy are smart on that point, I'll give that to you. But if par is 54 on a course I want to shoot 52 or less not 56 or more, so yes par does matter when I am trying to 'beat the course' or to evaluate how I played against the average, or as they say against what is 'par'. jeeze.
well if we don't know the par, then yea we are essentially making it up when we call them all par 3, but that is not the point.
I dont understand where some of these opinions are coming from. I get the logic, but I dont understand it.
When I play, I want to play well. I dont always, in fact I frequently dont, but when I go out there I am doing it because I love it, and I love it more when I know I am throwing well and earning a good score. A good score means a lower score. Hopefully lower than par, even though on a several courses my best is well over par, I am aiming to get lower. Sure I could make it up. Hey this first hole is a par 10 and I scored a 3! I am seven under! I am killing it today!! :doh: But c'mon, really!?
So here is a question to those who dont care about par. I guess you are saying that you just want to beat your own scores or the people you are playing with. (or maybe you dont, maybe scoring does not matter at all to you? is that it? so be it). But if you throw 66. 66. 68. this week and next week you throw 65. 64. 60. You are happy cause you got your scores lower. Well what if par on the course is 55, dont you want to know that and work to get your score down there? 66 might be good for you, but it's not great overall on a par 55 course. So if you know par is 10 strokes less than that, wouldn't you play harder and improve by trying to beat that?
Honestly I am just trying to understand why some of you dont think par matters because I have never played with anybody who thought that way. Everybody I know plays to: beat their best score, beat their opponent, and beat the course average (par) And No that is not to say we are hard core a-holes that only care about score, it means we are out to have fun and play our best based on these (and other) factors.
edit: i talking about all those hypothetical scores on the same course just to be clear
Last edited:
bergdawg
Banned
Go by what your round was rated, forget par.
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2009
- Messages
- 4,057
I think part of the problem is that most courses don't have posted par for the course, or for the individual holes. Which leaves you guessing, or you can just play them all as threes. People hung up on par are mostly new players, from my experiances. Playing them all as threes is kinda a disc golf thing, try it, you just might like it!
Doupie620
Banned
Ok...let me clear this up for you. If there are no Flying Squirrels present, then the par from the long is the same as the short unless stated on the tee box. If there ARE flying squirrels present, then that is just neat because Flying Squirrels are cool...unless they become predatory. A +1 bonus shot then applies because you are running from man-eating flying squirrels.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
cubby96
Bogey Member
SSA is what you are looking for
When a course hosts a tournament, the rated players' round scores and their previous ratings are used to statistically determine a Scratch Scoring Average, or SSA. Each round is analyzed separately, because pin locations, tees used, weather conditions, etc. all come into play. But, with adequate rated players in attendance, an expected par can be calculated after the fact. This is based on the performance of a 1000-rated player, and is the SSA for that specific round. More info is at http://www.pdga.com/ratings .
Now, how does this answer your question? If you look at the SSA from the previous few rounds at your course, you can determine what "par" would likely be, in average conditions and in a tournament setting. Note that only around 200 players worldwide consistently shoot under those pars. You might also be disappointed in that it is often lower than 54. This method might be better for establishing longer term goals.
For short term goal setting, the best way to rate yourself is to develop your own handicap. Play your local course regularly and know how you score. Keep a log. Compare your rounds and you can know offhand what you should expect to do and can celebrate the little (and sometimes big) improvements. On one of my old home courses, I used to be a +15 or so player, relative to a typical par of 54. Back then, I dreamed about being in the single digits over par (63 or less). On another course in town, I often shot par or slightly better. When I started shooting regularly more like 60 on my old home course, it was far more exciting to me than another round in the low 50s at the other course in town where I shot regularly under par.
Like anything else in life, the more you put into it, the more you get out. Keeping your own par can be a lot of work. I recommend joining a league locally that does a handicapping system, if one is available. Then they can tell you where your score is and how you are trending.
When a course hosts a tournament, the rated players' round scores and their previous ratings are used to statistically determine a Scratch Scoring Average, or SSA. Each round is analyzed separately, because pin locations, tees used, weather conditions, etc. all come into play. But, with adequate rated players in attendance, an expected par can be calculated after the fact. This is based on the performance of a 1000-rated player, and is the SSA for that specific round. More info is at http://www.pdga.com/ratings .
Now, how does this answer your question? If you look at the SSA from the previous few rounds at your course, you can determine what "par" would likely be, in average conditions and in a tournament setting. Note that only around 200 players worldwide consistently shoot under those pars. You might also be disappointed in that it is often lower than 54. This method might be better for establishing longer term goals.
For short term goal setting, the best way to rate yourself is to develop your own handicap. Play your local course regularly and know how you score. Keep a log. Compare your rounds and you can know offhand what you should expect to do and can celebrate the little (and sometimes big) improvements. On one of my old home courses, I used to be a +15 or so player, relative to a typical par of 54. Back then, I dreamed about being in the single digits over par (63 or less). On another course in town, I often shot par or slightly better. When I started shooting regularly more like 60 on my old home course, it was far more exciting to me than another round in the low 50s at the other course in town where I shot regularly under par.
Like anything else in life, the more you put into it, the more you get out. Keeping your own par can be a lot of work. I recommend joining a league locally that does a handicapping system, if one is available. Then they can tell you where your score is and how you are trending.
I'll try to help, here.
One problem with "par" is disc golf is that there is not a universally agreed on and applied system so that, as you move from course to course, "par" varies, sometimes extremely. So it's hard to know whether beating par is a good score or not, or whether your score is a good one or not.
Here's a real-life example that's at the extreme---but it's my real life. The two courses I play most often:
Course A Par 68 I average 53 (15 under)
Course B Par 64 I average 70 (6 over)
Which makes par meaningless to me. It depends on who determines par, and what system they use.
SSA---when available---is a more universally-applied standard. If I'm a 900-rated player and my score is better than 900-rated rounds generally are on a particular course, well, that's good.
SmoothSailor
* Ace Member *
I know it doesn't answer the question at hand, but I play everything as a par 3, no matter how absurd. I add up the score over/under and add to 54. Just an easy way to get the total faster.
Not to attack RTS about the par in pdga thing, but one more argument against it is that TDs set "par" for each event individually, there isn't one for a course. I've seen the same course listed as par 60 and par 54, both in tournaments, from the same tees.
That's how it works in ball golf too... have you ever noticed that at some of the majors the par for the course is 71 and not 72...
Giv'r
Eagle Member
The OP never mentioned how long these tees are, just that they are 50-100 feet shorter than the Pro tees. Maybe this chart from the PDGA would help. The values seem pretty fair to me.
http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/ParGuidelines.pdf
http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/ParGuidelines.pdf
charris414
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2006
- Messages
- 558
this is a discussion that rears up all the time in all dg forums.
1. For scorekeeping purposes only - using a base of 27 for 9 holes and 54 for 18 holes, makes adding up your score fantastically easily.
2. Par is what YOU decide it is. If there's a hole on your course that you feel is a two shot hole, meaning it's going to take you two legit and accurate throws to get in your putting range, then that is a par 4 for YOU. If I can get there in one throw and one putt, then for ME it is a par 3.
3. Using SSA to determine what you should be shooting is going to be much better for you in the long run. Compare your skills against the results of a 1000 rated player on your course, and you'll see just how you stack up. Comparing your score against what the course designer deemed "Par" to be is irrelevant.
4. When someone asks you how you shot in a round (tourney or otherwise), say I shot this score, which would have been this rating in the last event here, and then you can say it's this many strokes below the established course par. That way your friend knows just how close you came to that elusive 1000 rated round.
1. For scorekeeping purposes only - using a base of 27 for 9 holes and 54 for 18 holes, makes adding up your score fantastically easily.
2. Par is what YOU decide it is. If there's a hole on your course that you feel is a two shot hole, meaning it's going to take you two legit and accurate throws to get in your putting range, then that is a par 4 for YOU. If I can get there in one throw and one putt, then for ME it is a par 3.
3. Using SSA to determine what you should be shooting is going to be much better for you in the long run. Compare your skills against the results of a 1000 rated player on your course, and you'll see just how you stack up. Comparing your score against what the course designer deemed "Par" to be is irrelevant.
4. When someone asks you how you shot in a round (tourney or otherwise), say I shot this score, which would have been this rating in the last event here, and then you can say it's this many strokes below the established course par. That way your friend knows just how close you came to that elusive 1000 rated round.
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