Scott Stokley's forehand form

[txmxer]

Watching the GIF's again--maybe you understood what I was saying. You and the pitcher step forward and bend at the waste. SS points at his hip and says to "tilt".

Now, watching SS do it and the gifs, yeah, with momentum, I can see how he would keep his balance, but it seems really awkward to me.

He's a great distance thrower, so I'm not arguing with him that it works for him or maybe it would be great for most. As of right now, I can't figure out the mechanics of what he's suggesting.

 

[txmxer]

I think you answered my question. You are saying you can't balance walking forward and tilting like that, but you can sideways like the submarine gifs.

You posted while I was working through this--yes, I think we are on the same page.

 

[Gyroscopic]

I have been watching his videos on youtube as of late. Went back and re-watched some of his older ones and newer ones. He claims his forward facing form and throwing it like a ball is the correct way to throw (either pendulum swing or wind-up style). He says if you throw from a more sideward stance it is wrong.

However, we see many other pros (Eagle, Koling, Ricky, etc) being successful not looking like Stokely.

Stokely absolutely smashes his forehands, but is he right that his way is the right way? I wonder how much genetics is at play here (Stokely is like 6 foot 6).

I have tried it his way and it hurts my shoulder and I can't throw as far that way.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_Ivn4-nLWQ

Eagle and every other good forehand player, like SS, end with their chest facing the target at release. You can start sideways, or more forward if you prefer.

The impact position is most important. since throwing the disc while your body is still sideways to the target just doesn't work and you'd just end up hurting yourself and/or, your score.

 

[Gyroscopic]

Or just ignore Stokely, and watch that Joe Madden video Sidewinder22 provided. That's was just excellent.

 

[HyooMac]

I attended one of Stokely's clinics a few weeks ago, and I'm a fan of how he breaks things down into the simplest parts. I had previously spent time with his forehand videos, and it really helped me progress. But my shoulder hurt after he analyzed my swing (and had me throwing more like a ball, less like a frisbee). So I think I've adapted to "my version" of his swing... most importantly, to face my target as a way to get maximal torque from the windup. That really works...for me.


I admire that Stokely has spent a ton of time trying to break things down into simple and memorable lessons. But any YouTube lesson can't account for individual body type, flexibility, limitations, etc, and making it work for YOU. My experience in a three hour clinic with 8 other guys was better - because I could get feedback - but only marginally better, because the feedback was "here's how to be more like my model", rather than "let's adapt my model to your individual body."

All of this helps me look at YT videos with a different mindset: I try to imagine an announcement at the beginning: "this works for me; some version of it MIGHT work for you."

 

[Jay Dub]

I attended one of Stokely's clinics a few weeks ago, and I'm a fan of how he breaks things down into the simplest parts. I had previously spent time with his forehand videos, and it really helped me progress. But my shoulder hurt after he analyzed my swing (and had me throwing more like a ball, less like a frisbee). So I think I've adapted to "my version" of his swing... most importantly, to face my target as a way to get maximal torque from the windup. That really works...for me.


I admire that Stokely has spent a ton of time trying to break things down into simple and memorable lessons. But any YouTube lesson can't account for individual body type, flexibility, limitations, etc, and making it work for YOU. My experience in a three hour clinic with 8 other guys was better - because I could get feedback - but only marginally better, because the feedback was "here's how to be more like my model", rather than "let's adapt my model to your individual body."

All of this helps me look at YT videos with a different mindset: I try to imagine an announcement at the beginning: "this works for me; some version of it MIGHT work for you."

This is very important and too many new players don't get this. They throw like crap and when you ask why they do what they do they swear they are doing it the way the YT video told/showed them.

Most times they are not.

 

[txmxer]

Stokely forgets more about disc golf every morning than I'll ever know. Don't think anything I say is me thinking I know more than he does. I've got nerve issues, a shoulder that was surgically repaired, bad knees--well, they are okay now that I've had both replaced. Overweight and out of shape. I have to adapt and modify things to work for me.

I want to get a full throw in to my FH, but right now, my timing is horrible so I'm left with building from the flick of the wrist before I get more in to it.

 

[crdiscgolf79]

Stokley's form gets talked about in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tm0wVMq4dM

 

[sidewinder22]

Stokley's form gets talked about in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Tm0wVMq4dM

 

[txmxer]

Just on the reach back. Not really talking about what Stokely says overall.

That's a great video though. I think Clemons has great form and would be a good choice for most to try to emulate.

He does talk about staying more compact--he kind of hit on the injury aspect. By staying more compact, I think the shoulder roll is less extreme and it is much easier on the joint.

(he said joint--huh huh).

The shoulder is the most complex joint in the body. To accommodate that requires a lot of soft tissue to keep it in place. The more extreme the motion, the more stress placed on those soft tissues and the more opportunity to do damage. What is done cannot be undone, at least not completely.

 

[txmxer]

For your consideration. 2016 Nick Hyde Memorial (video link below)

Is his motion the same as he is describing here at 3:19:



Just like the GIFs from sidewinder, the bend is at the waist forward and not in the hip to hip plane.

But, that's what he suggests here as he pats himself on the side over the hip in the video above at 6:16.




Nick Hyde Memorial (jump to 4:05 for FH throw in picture)

 

[Monocacy]

The Chris Clemons style, more compact sidearm works better for me. After accumulating shoulder injuries from other sports, I need to be quite careful with my shoulder position and arm slot. A compact motion reduces the chance that I will throw with my arm where it shouldn't be.

The part about using your non-throwing arm to "elbow your little brother" was interesting. I'll try that next time I'm out on the course.

Now I just need a smidge of Chris Clemons' sidearm power.

 

[crdiscgolf79]

For your consideration. 2016 Nick Hyde Memorial (video link below)

Is his motion the same as he is describing here at 3:19:



Just like the GIFs from sidewinder, the bend is at the waist forward and not in the hip to hip plane.

But, that's what he suggests here as he pats himself on the side over the hip in the video above at 6:16.




Nick Hyde Memorial (jump to 4:05 for FH throw in picture)

Yes, sure does look contradictory there as the bend is waist forward not hip to hip tilt plane.

 

[mojorooks]

Uhhh, the ball's low point is basically his ankle. The ball is actually well below his elbow, much less his shoulder. His arm is actually moving fast enough that in the frame when the ball is at it's low point his arm and the ball are basically just ghosts/smears.

Low point:

Just after release:

I like this. Last week I had a good week, this week I was abysmal. But I'm taking it as a positive. I was trying to figure out what I was doing different. I found it had everything to do with my run-up stance/release point. Last week I stayed squared up basically doing a lunge during my run up, I stayed squared up and had a consistent release. Cardmate said 'hit this break in the trees' I did it. This week I was doing a sideways stance, skip forward. I had more power but my release was horribly inconsistent. AND I was OATing the hell out of it.

I notice in this clip that he IS squared up at the release point. With proper training and technique, he takes the more powerful sideways stance that screws me up so bad and still keeps all the consistency. I can see where it works for some but not others. This guy has probably been working on pitching every day since he was 3.

I won't every get that point. HOWEVER, I'm excited as HELL to figure out something that can solve my consistency issues!

 

[sidewinder22]

That's a great video though. I think Clemons has great form and would be a good choice for most to try to emulate.

He does talk about staying more compact--he kind of hit on the injury aspect. By staying more compact, I think the shoulder roll is less extreme and it is much easier on the joint.

(he said joint--huh huh).

The shoulder is the most complex joint in the body. To accommodate that requires a lot of soft tissue to keep it in place. The more extreme the motion, the more stress placed on those soft tissues and the more opportunity to do damage. What is done cannot be undone, at least not completely.

The Chris Clemons style, more compact sidearm works better for me. After accumulating shoulder injuries from other sports, I need to be quite careful with my shoulder position and arm slot. A compact motion reduces the chance that I will throw with my arm where it shouldn't be.

The part about using your non-throwing arm to "elbow your little brother" was interesting. I'll try that next time I'm out on the course.

Now I just need a smidge of Chris Clemons' sidearm power.

My shoulder joint motion is more compact than Clemons', he moves the elbow around a lot more.

 

[Monocacy]

My shoulder joint motion is more compact than Clemons', he moves the elbow around a lot more.

Understood. I was comparing Clemons to Stokely.

 

[Gyroscopic]

I agree with you. Pitchers start sideways, and end up facing the target at release.

Scott seems to have backed up a little on that statement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf6qb4_-y3A#t=3m45s

That is the single best video I've ever seen for the forehand. Even though he's demonstrating throwing a ball. For anyone who has trouble understanding how to apply this technique, just imagine tearing the ball in half and throwing the top half of the ball like a disc.

I have a lot of super domey Innova discs that I dislike because of the giant dome, but it helped me wrap my mind around the conceot.

 

[timothy42b]

I've been to a Stokely clinic and heard that lecture, also watched on his video numerous times. I think his description of the "frisbee" throw has some merit but maybe for a different reason.

The Madden video shows the throw occurring with the release later, hips square and weight or pressure forward, either with crow hop or shuffle. The Stokely demonstration of the wrong throw has the release with the arm way back near the back leg. On the course yesterday I saw someone repeatedly do it that way. The hips start sideways and never do square up, and elbow never gets much forward. He had pretty good wrist snap and made some decent shaped shots but not real far.

I've been trying to do it Stokely's way, but that side lean is easy with the hips sideways, and extremely difficult with them forward, at least for me.

 

[nothinbuttree]

I think one has to be willing to completely blow up their form when learning a different throwing style. And be content starting at 40% or so power. In other words, not caring one lick about distance, only the form itself. I would hazard a guess that any pain experienced comes from improper stretching and/or trying to go full power out of the chute.

I completely have changed my BH form in the last 6 months, and am just now getting back to my former distance, but I am much more accurate and so far 100% pain free. I changed forms because of recurring elbow pain which led me to discover that my form was awful!

So start at low power, and if the disc goes 100' but no pain, that is a victory. Focus on the form, not the distance. A video camera is your best friend.

 

[HyooMac]

I think one has to be willing to completely blow up their form when learning a different throwing style. And be content starting at 40% or so power. In other words, not caring one lick about distance, only the form itself.

...Exactly the words I heard during the clinic.