Shift from Behind; Throw All Shots Better

[sidewinder22]

I've been reading this entire thread that started in 2017 waiting to see if someone would compare the weight shift to a baseball swing. In regards to just the 'feeling' of the lower body weight shift from rear side to front side, do you guys feel like it's an accurate comparison?

It's really the same "move" in about all sport throwing/swinging motions when done correctly.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133319

 

[Calpolyarc]

It's really the same "move" in about all sport throwing/swinging motions when done correctly.

So in this pic of me playing softball- looks to me like I'm in pretty much the same position I would be at the hit/snap.

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[Calpolyarc]

So in this pic of me playing softball- looks to me like I'm in pretty much the same position I would be at the hit/snap.

Edit/addition to above: I'm talking more about the lower body positioning. However a baseball swing is more dependent on actively rotating the hips after the plant (by driving the rear knee) rather then using the lateral leverage and inertia that is discussed frequently here. I see in SW's kinetic chain video his hips are further over his front/plant foot at the hit.

Sorry for the wishy washiness of my observations... really wanting to start throwing over 300!

 

[RFrance]

However a baseball swing is more dependent on actively rotating the hips after the plant (by driving the rear knee) rather then using the lateral leverage and inertia that is discussed frequently here.

In Post #8 of the Kinetic Sequence https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forum...d.php?t=133319 Sidewinder just linked above, many of us have found the Dr. Chris Yeager videos helpful in explaining the baseball swing. In the second video "What causes ROTATION part 2" he discusses how it IS the lateral move that forces the rotation of the hips, particularly starting here: https://youtu.be/SDyTUpPTPsM?t=231. At 4:34 he says "It's a lateral press from the back side and a bracing up … on the front side that opens up the pelvis from the front.

All of these videos are helpful in understanding the disc golf throw.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Edit/addition to above: I'm talking more about the lower body positioning. However a baseball swing is more dependent on actively rotating the hips after the plant (by driving the rear knee) rather then using the lateral leverage and inertia that is discussed frequently here. I see in SW's kinetic chain video his hips are further over his front/plant foot at the hit.

Sorry for the wishy washiness of my observations... really wanting to start throwing over 300!

 

[slowplastic]

So in this pic of me playing softball- looks to me like I'm in pretty much the same position I would be at the hit/snap.

Yeah, and keep in mind you are holding onto the bat with two hands, and swinging/remaining in control of the bat. In disc golf the lead arm which in this case is your left arm is the only one with the disc, so the lead shoulder angle will be much more open and the arm will be more extended/released away from your body at the hit. Lower body is very similar though.

Learning/feeling that different arm position in the one handed swing is a big mental hurdle after being used to swinging bats and clubs.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[bchase]

New player (3 months here) and I throw about 270' max

This is a great thread and I've read it twice and took to field today... Didn't quite see improvement yet.

So I need checklists in my mind when I'm in the field. Is below accurate for RHBH (and a good start)?

1) Left foot out of X-step has weight on in-sole, this is also the beginning of the pendulum (aka reachback)
2) Left foot pushes in a manner that makes left butt-cheek move towards target (more twist - Wall drill)
3) Right toe touches foot 90 degree from target, backswing ends away from target.
4) Hips lead move towards target (Hershyzer Drill)
4.b) at same time plant heel comes down (crush the can)
5) disc travels (from chest) wide-narrow-wide. Elbow and forearm at right angle at narrow
6) Narrow begins the snap, sling elbow towards target (first time arm has been used since end of reachback)
7) Disc snaps out of hand automatically
8) trail foot moves towards (and initally behind plant foot)
9) inertia turns everything around the plant foot weight fully on right side.

These are the things I checked off in my mind in the field.. I just don't think I'm putting them all together for the improvement yet. I particularly don't "feel" like I'm bracing well.. But I am not sure exactly what that feeling would feel like.
I am 46 and fairly athletic but about hole 12 or so my back begins to ache a little.. by 18 I'm feeling it rough.. I am pretty sure it has to do with not doing one of the steps correctly.

Great posts.. this stuff seems logical and gold.

 

[slowplastic]

A crucial thing I'm seeing in your list, is at step 3 the backswing shouldn't be ending as plant toes touch down. It should be swinging back toward its apex, but let your backswing have its own momentum. When you drop/land on the plant foot then let your body start turning forward from your hips clearing....and this will start to bring your arm forward with it.

Basically don't "reach" with the arm or try to stop it in the backswing at a certain point, if it naturally can have some swing to it, then it will create that bit of lag. It's a very common problem for people to reach the top of their backswing far too soon and bring the disc/arm forward as their body is coming forward. Far earlier than it should be happening.

It can be easier to see and feel with a golf club, watch in a pro golfer how the club is still moving up or hovering at the apex of the backswing as they are landing on their lead leg.

 

[bchase]

Thanks, I never thought of it like that.. is it ok if the disc is not yet at the apex when the body movements start to bring it towards the target? (by apex I mean directly flat on the target line farthest from target for a straight shot) ??

I had some instruction from a tournament player once and he was wanting me to lower the disc and bring it "up into the power pocket" but that direction didn't really make sense as to why.

I may be spending too much time concentrating on the backswing

 

[slowplastic]

Thanks, I never thought of it like that.. is it ok if the disc is not yet at the apex when the body movements start to bring it towards the target? (by apex I mean directly flat on the target line farthest from target for a straight shot) ??

I had some instruction from a tournament player once and he was wanting me to lower the disc and bring it "up into the power pocket" but that direction didn't really make sense as to why.

I may be spending too much time concentrating on the backswing

Backswing is super important, if you don't have it happen at the right time and in control, in leverage, your forward swing is happening just because or just when you tell it to happen. Rather than when your body is in position for it. The backswing should basically mirror your forward swing and be in just as much control/leverage. It makes a huge difference. You should be landing on your plant leg just as your backswing is finishing/at the apex in feel. It's easier to feel with something heavier in your hand like a hammer/wrench/lever so it can add to the weight of your connected arm to shoulder.

Lots of players seem to do different things with the disc from backswing forward, but they all do it in leverage/control. Some players unwind the elbow/forearm while keeping the disc on plane/height...Lizotte does this. I bet what that guy was telling you is how it feels to throw with a non-flat swing plane like all the pro's do: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134415

If you watch Seppo Paju he actually has the disc a bit higher at the top of the backswing, and it lowers down toward the power pocket as he moves forward. But his arm is pullled/leveraged the whole time like all other top throwers.

 

[Casey 1988]

Nice, Love the gifs from sidewinder22, I do more the Disc golf throw off tee pad shown in those gifs. I am not able to do the true one leg at end of throw like Nate Doss or other Disc golf gif as I have slipped enough times attempting that type of shot to warrant not doing the one leg shot.

 

[Thediscgolferguy]

SlowP, this was such a helpful discovery for me - good work detailing this all out.

Here a couple examples (of probably many) where SW explains pretty darn clearly I just never got it for some reason until I was mentally struggling through it all:

First part of Crush can 2.1:


Sidewinder talks about foot eversion, which is necessary to "get" the from behind principle (it's necessary in order to rotate your hip laterally toward the target): he talks about it in gas pedal drill among other places (door frame, etc.)

Hershyzer Drill also a critical component in understanding - When rotate laterally from behind result is leading with your butt and not rotating early which I was doing previously.



Also watching Clement explain the power move was helpful to me.



It is very interesting how this translates to other sports. I got to my son's soccer game early on Saturday and we were warming up on the field and I was applying the from behind principle to my soccer shots. It's essentially the same thing as a forehand shot in disc golf. I would laterally rotate my right check toward the target before the hit and man I was getting some sweet rips. Soccer shot is already ingrained for me but just thinking about the from behind principle and consciously doing it made it so easy and replicable. The nets were scared and the 6 yr olds were blown away

Anyway, hope these videos help supplement and click for someone else too.

Thank you for these videos and the thread, wow, this has really clicked mentally now, and I can also feel it doing drills at home, can't wait to get out to the field.

And from that golf video, daym, so basicly getting into a coiled disc golf positioning is like punching someone standing on parallel to the left from oneself, wow, just doing a punch and the whole body sets up in perfectly, I'm amazed. How simple.