Skill Gap

[orion487]

I'm rated around 880 right now, and have been playing MA2 in Denver for a number of years. Most people could play Rec based on rating, but around here they tend to play up, and I've enjoyed it a lot more than Rec. You get to compete against more than 3 other players, people in MA2 take it a bit more seriously, and they tend to know more about the rules without being jerks about it.

I'd consider staying in MA2, but really, just do what you enjoy the most. At the end of the day, that's why we play!

 

[Rockwell]

I think, all in all, I'm more comfortable in MA2. Even if I'm getting smoked, in some ways that's more fun because then I can just relax and throw, instead of worrying about trying to place.

Yeah, it's weird but I've been in positions before where I was almost feeling bad when I did make a good shot in a tournament because I was scared of being called a bagger. When I play up, however, I get excited when I make the good shots or am having a great round.

 

[sidewinder22]

You must be practicing wrong and have mental game issues. There are definite regional differences in the divisions, around here I hardly ever see MA3 offered, and I had to start in MA2. I played Open in my second tourney which was pro only event. You aren't going learn much from MA2 or MA1 players by playing up from rec, you have to play with pros. I'd suggest reading golf is not a game of perfect to start.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Springs is a haul especially with work traffic. I'm really sorry to hear that the locals are not welcoming, I've seen that to some degree here - but once you get to know most of the guys, you see past some prickly characters.

In fact, one of the smarmiest/cockiest players I've run into has turned out to be some of the best partners.

Either way, if you find yourself up this way - I expect a PM so we can play a round.

 

[AndyJB]

One of the problems in the Springs is that the really good players love Cottonwood. I don't like that course, because, frankly, it's dangerous with all the crib - crossing fairways and a lot of new players who don't have much control over their shots.

They do have a weekly league at Widefield, but it starts at 5:00 p.m. on Wednesdays and I'm lucky to get off work by 5:30. I've managed to make it a few times and watched guys straight up murder the course but they get real impatient when someone not as good as them shows up to play.

 

[AndyJB]

You must be practicing wrong and have mental game issues. There are definite regional differences in the divisions, around here I hardly ever see MA3 offered, and I had to start in MA2. I played Open in my second tourney which was pro only event. You aren't going learn much from MA2 or MA1 players by playing up from rec, you have to play with pros. I'd suggest reading golf is not a game of perfect to start.

Brother, not to get one my high horse or get too defensive, but with three deployments to Afghanistan, I'm not the type to get rattled by a game of Frisbee, haha. So it's certainly not my mental game. Practice, you might have something there but I've learned plenty over the years, especially on these here forums so that's not the culprit. My problem is more lack of free time. I get in about an hour of putting practice a week, which isn't nearly enough to hang in Open, though my putting is actually pretty good, considering my general skill level.

I know what I have to do, and how to work on it, but my level of disc golf body ability just isn't as good as a lot of others. I'm short and stocky...not the best disc golfer build!

The idea of moving Into Open in interesting. I think you're the first person I've seen tell a Rec player to play Open. There's a Spring Fling event here every year that runs one day of Ams and one day of Open. Maybe next year I'll sign up for both. Play MA2 the first day and Open the second day. That would be kinda fun.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Wow, that's some seriously uncool behavior. If you want to have a league, I would assume it would be to grow the sport and be inclusive. Throwing attitude around at less skilled players is the last thing to do...

 

[AndyJB]

Wow, that's some seriously uncool behavior. If you want to have a league, I would assume it would be to grow the sport and be inclusive. Throwing attitude around at less skilled players is the last thing to do...

It's not really that they have a bad attitude or anything, they just aren't very inclusive. It's kind of cliquey. The club president tries his hardest to change it, but he also has a hard time making the Widefield league because of work. He's a good guy, but sometimes it seems like the club just doesn't support him.

Like for the RMSG. It's at Widefield and is a huge event for the Springs. All the money is going back to the club, and it's supposed to be a highlight for the club.

Nine people have signed up.

Three of them are me, my wife and my daughter.

 

[AndyJB]

I'll tell you what though, when it comes time for a workday that club busts their assess cleaning up the local courses.

 

[sidewinder22]

I'm partly basing that off what I've read from you so far in this thread about your expectations. Also golf is a lot different mentally than military reaction training. I've had years of Olympic level training and still wasn't prepared for the mental part of golf. I'm also short and stocky(5'7", 200lbs), so I'm right there with you in that regard. Playing with players that are only marginally better than you isn't going to help much if at all. You need to see what a disc can do at the top level and get into their thought process.

 

[knettles]

I'm partly basing that off what I've read from you so far in this thread about your expectations. Also golf is a lot different mentally than military reaction training. I've had years of Olympic level training and still wasn't prepared for the mental part of golf. I'm also short and stocky(5'7", 200lbs), so I'm right there with you in that regard. Playing with players that are only marginally better than you isn't going to help much if at all. You need to see what a disc can do at the top level and get into their thought process.

I definitely get what you're saying Sidewinder. For me, I've always felt like I get extra motivated to play my best when playing with someone waaay better. There may not be a chance in hell at beating them, but simply keeping the gap small is fun and exciting. The rounds I've played with Johnny Sias (only pro I've played with) I did better than I normally would.

 

[GLong]

Brother, not to get one my high horse or get too defensive, but with three deployments to Afghanistan, I'm not the type to get rattled by a game of Frisbee, haha. So it's certainly not my mental game. Practice, you might have something there but I've learned plenty over the years, especially on these here forums so that's not the culprit. My problem is more lack of free time. I get in about an hour of putting practice a week, which isn't nearly enough to hang in Open, though my putting is actually pretty good, considering my general skill level.

I know what I have to do, and how to work on it, but my level of disc golf body ability just isn't as good as a lot of others. I'm short and stocky...not the best disc golfer build!

'mental game' is a lot more than staying calm under pressure. read the book he recommended and then get back to us. i can vouch for it, it totally changed the way i approach the game. my experience with DG is split into two parts - before and after reading it.

you don't have to be an athlete to shoot lower scores. you need to stop making bad decisions/learn how to execute in the moment - 850-870 rounds means you are bleeding strokes all over the place. you need to go back and look at your scores and see where the trouble happened - off the tee, approach, putt, etc. i'm glad that you survived three tours in afghanistan, and certainly appreciate your service, but frisbee is not a game of life and death. the type and amount of focus required is totally different.

i've played with plenty of non-athletic older guys who are similar in build to you, and many of them average 910-950 rounds. it's totally possible to shoot much better without changing anything about your body.

 

[AndyJB]

Heard a lot about that book
Picked it up last night for my Kindle. Doesn't seem too long so I'll read it over the weekend. I went back and evaluated (to the best of my recollection) where I made my missteps this weekend in particular.

Round 1 (three over par)
All in all my best complete tourney round this year. I took several pars on the extremely long holes where other guys on my card were taking 4s or 5s. My bug mistakes:

-Missed an easy 15 foot putt when I putted too high
-Missed a chance at a birdie on an easy 300 foot hole by throwing a driver instead of a mid and skipping way past the basket
-Grip locked my Roc on a short 280 foot hole that led me to struggle for three (which I got) instead of a tap in birdie
-On the shortest hole, I threw my putter too low and ended up 40 feet short, robbing myself of another tap in birdie

So without those I would have been one under par. There are probably other little mistakes I made.

Round 2: this is the round that everyone across the board struggled with. The sun was beating down and the wind picked up to a gnarly rate. I shot a 65.

-My biggest enemy was fatigue. I only had two really good drives that I was proud of, and both led to my only birdies if the round. I had a 20 oz. Gatorade and 32 oz. Of water with me for this round, but I should have carried more as well as hydrating better the night before.
-I had four missed putts from within 20. That's normally within my range. I should have slowed down and taken my time.
-I went OB by throwing my Teebird over a big OB carry. I didn't add the proper angle of hyzer and since I went OB early, it left me struggling for bogey.
-I overestimated the wind on a 400 foot downhill hole and the my Motion. It cut through the wind like a dream but cut hard left and left me with another bogey that could have been an easy par or even a birdie.
-On the second longest downhill hole I put my drive within ten feet of where I did the first round. However, I did NOT execute my upshot like I did the first round. I threw my Suspect around a tree for a park job in round one and a birdie. I hit the tree in round 2 and was left with another bogey.

Taking all that into effect, I could have easily matched my score from round one, if not done better. I know what I need to work on and was able to get about an hour of practice in after work last night.

Will playing up keep me more focused and not make those stupid mental errors? We will see. As I mentioned, I've signed up for MA2 for the next PODS as well as RMSG. I plan to play MA2 at the Denver Classic. I'm still not sure if my schedule will allow me to play in the Mule High Classic, but if so, I plan on playing that in MA1 with one simple goal: don't come in last place. The other tourneys I plan on doing damage (and maybe even medaling in RMSG as its on one of my local courses) but I plan on playing Mile High more relaxed, with no pressure and being strictly observant of how the more skilled players execute their shots and take on the course. I want to watch their course management and see where I can improve in that regard as well.

 

[Ranger Rick]

There are several factors to consider:
1-do you want to be a big fish in a little pond, or visa-versa?
2-do you need the plastic you would win by finishing higher in a lower bracket?
3-do you factor in which division will net you the most points?
4-do you play the division that will provide the funnest time?
5-do you play the division that will provide the best learning curve?

The answers to those questions will tell you where you should be playing.

For me, I have been playing for points because I want to go to AM Worlds next year. So far this year I have played in Rec, Intermediate, and Masters, and next month I will play a tourney in Novice, because, at 799 rating, that is where my skill level is, and there are more players signed up in the Novice division then any of the other divisions, which gives me a better chance of scoring points.

 

[AndyJB]

There are several factors to consider:
1-do you want to be a big fish in a little pond, or visa-versa?
2-do you need the plastic you would win by finishing higher in a lower bracket?
3-do you factor in which division will net you the most points?
4-do you play the division that will provide the funnest time?
5-do you play the division that will provide the best learning curve?

1- I don't like being a big fish in a little pond. Some people need that for their ego, but I'm quite the opposite. It actually HURTS my pride to win big in a ratings protected division because I feel like a sandbagging son of a bitch regardless of how my rounds were rated.

2- Absolutely not. I hate having extra discs laying around. Even if it's a "back up" I try and sell or give them away. I hate clutter.

3- this year I haven't because there's no way Uncle Sam will let me off for a week to go play disc golf. Next season though I plan on nabbing as many points as I can to qualify for 2016 Am Worlds.

4- no, not really. Tourneys aren't as fun (for me) as just a casual round, so that isn't really a factor for me. I use fun as a decision more on the course and tournament itself than the division.

5- that's sort of been the center of this discussion. Whether moving up is beneficial (it would seem the arguement Is that if certainly is, but HOW beneficial is up for debate) and just how far to move up. I'm not jumping to Open an an 833 rated player, that seems extreme to me, but I will be playing MA1 in my last tournament of the year.

 

[bogeyfreetilinfinity]

I've been playing up for over a year now and have moved up from stoked to not be DFL to fighting for last cash. There was definitely a mental hurdle to clear about trying to show with every shot that I was good enough to be playing that division. What really helped was watching great players make the same mistakes that I always feel like should never happen and I must be an idiot for missing a putt like that or hitting that tree.

 

[Agricolae]

Good for you for getting Rotella's book. You'll find the answers, or insight at the least, to a lot of your questions there. Starting with Chapter 1 about dreams ... What do you want to accomplish? Knowing that will go a long way to helping you plan a route to get there. It should answer your question about whether to play up or not.

...What really helped was watching great players make the same mistakes that I always feel like should never happen and I must be an idiot for missing a putt like that or hitting that tree.

Yep. Misses and bad shots will always be a part of everyone's game. Was the cause a mental error (lack of confidence and focus, indecision...), a physical/technique error (poor form, trying shots you haven't practiced...), or something out of your control (wind, rollaways, bad kicks...)? Learn to separate these and you'll know what to work on, and, when to congratulate yourself on a "good shot that just didn't go in".

 

[knettles]

1- I don't like being a big fish in a little pond. Some people need that for their ego, but I'm quite the opposite. It actually HURTS my pride to win big in a ratings protected division because I feel like a sandbagging son of a bitch regardless of how my rounds were rated.

2- Absolutely not. I hate having extra discs laying around. Even if it's a "back up" I try and sell or give them away. I hate clutter.

3- this year I haven't because there's no way Uncle Sam will let me off for a week to go play disc golf. Next season though I plan on nabbing as many points as I can to qualify for 2016 Am Worlds.

4- no, not really. Tourneys aren't as fun (for me) as just a casual round, so that isn't really a factor for me. I use fun as a decision more on the course and tournament itself than the division.

5- that's sort of been the center of this discussion. Whether moving up is beneficial (it would seem the arguement Is that if certainly is, but HOW beneficial is up for debate) and just how far to move up. I'm not jumping to Open an an 833 rated player, that seems extreme to me, but I will be playing MA1 in my last tournament of the year.

What?! How dare you refer to discs as "clutter". I treat em like gold!

 

[erock216]

I wish I lived closer to Denver. Here in the Springs the club members can be...unwelcoming, to say the least.

Doesn't sound like a disc golf mecca to me.

 

[AndyJB]

Doesn't sound like a disc golf mecca to me.

That's why it's "Disc Golf Mecca: Colorado"

And not "Disc Golf Mecca, Colorado"

The more you know.