Brief update: my buddy Steve, who is rated 815, has decided to take this moving up journey with me (though he won't be playing in MA1 at the Mile High Classic with me). So now we'll have two people to glean results from.
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Skill Gap
- Thread starter AndyJB
- Start date
Hey Andy,
I just now found this thread. Congrats on the win. A little food for thought. Colorado has a different crowd than most of the rest of the country. We tend not to play our ratings here and most people move up after a win or two. Personally, I have always moved up after a win, and for the remainder of that season I tend to play exceptionally well. When I moved up to advanced. I finished 4th in my first tournament and would have finished second if I didn't fall apart during the final 9. When I moved up to Open, it was not more than two tournaments before I finished three throws behind Joe Rovere and took second place at Peak One Open last year. It is my thought that the top third or so in most am divisions could move up to the next division.
I just now found this thread. Congrats on the win. A little food for thought. Colorado has a different crowd than most of the rest of the country. We tend not to play our ratings here and most people move up after a win or two. Personally, I have always moved up after a win, and for the remainder of that season I tend to play exceptionally well. When I moved up to advanced. I finished 4th in my first tournament and would have finished second if I didn't fall apart during the final 9. When I moved up to Open, it was not more than two tournaments before I finished three throws behind Joe Rovere and took second place at Peak One Open last year. It is my thought that the top third or so in most am divisions could move up to the next division.
Thats not Colorado. Thats everywhere. Its why I named this thread "Skill Gap".
What Ive seen is that no one anywhere plays their rating. Whether it's ego, calls of "sandbagger" peer pressure or whatever, people always tend to play up. As I have been doing playing more MA2 last year and this year.
But, as others have pointed out, what happens is there usually a glut at the bottom of any division of people who maybe moved up to early. I saw it at the 303 Open and I saw it at the Bloom (where I played MA2) in that the first rounds I was playing with guys better than me, and trying my damndest to keep up (in essence, forcing me to be a better player) and then the second round I'd be down amongst the riff-raff.
My goal is to eliminate that skill gap, and the consensus seems to be to play up. Most people so far in the thread (expect for the one dude who called me a sandbagger) have been pretty respectful about it, and because of that, their points have really sunk in.
While it is wholly possible I could be mired in MA2 for years, I'm hoping that moving up will eliminate that. I've received a lot of suggestions about mental game and all that, which I appreciate, but that is not the issue. I assure everyone that I am cool as a cucumber when playing and I know what shots to execute. I rarely make mental errors, and when I do I recognize it immediately.
My task is the physical ability. I am by no means un-athletic. I just need to force my body to do what my mind is telling me. Moving up may be the catalyst that does that, where I am forcing myself to execute just to stay alive and not finish in last place.
I have a glut of tournaments coming up, so I'll post again towards the end of August, when I play my last tournament of the year, and do so in MA1. If moving up benefits me, then I wont be in DFL at the Mile High Classic.
:::crosses fingers:::
What Ive seen is that no one anywhere plays their rating. Whether it's ego, calls of "sandbagger" peer pressure or whatever, people always tend to play up. As I have been doing playing more MA2 last year and this year.
But, as others have pointed out, what happens is there usually a glut at the bottom of any division of people who maybe moved up to early. I saw it at the 303 Open and I saw it at the Bloom (where I played MA2) in that the first rounds I was playing with guys better than me, and trying my damndest to keep up (in essence, forcing me to be a better player) and then the second round I'd be down amongst the riff-raff.
My goal is to eliminate that skill gap, and the consensus seems to be to play up. Most people so far in the thread (expect for the one dude who called me a sandbagger) have been pretty respectful about it, and because of that, their points have really sunk in.
While it is wholly possible I could be mired in MA2 for years, I'm hoping that moving up will eliminate that. I've received a lot of suggestions about mental game and all that, which I appreciate, but that is not the issue. I assure everyone that I am cool as a cucumber when playing and I know what shots to execute. I rarely make mental errors, and when I do I recognize it immediately.
My task is the physical ability. I am by no means un-athletic. I just need to force my body to do what my mind is telling me. Moving up may be the catalyst that does that, where I am forcing myself to execute just to stay alive and not finish in last place.
I have a glut of tournaments coming up, so I'll post again towards the end of August, when I play my last tournament of the year, and do so in MA1. If moving up benefits me, then I wont be in DFL at the Mile High Classic.
:::crosses fingers:::
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- Nov 2, 2008
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- 22,046
So how are you practicing to close this "skill gap"?
Wish I could. I get some putting practice in a couple times a week. If I'm lucky, I'll get in a round or two.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2008
- Messages
- 22,046
Are you losing more "skill gap" strokes from putting or driving?
Hey Andy - not sure how I missed this thread earlier, but you are in much the same position as I am. I started in April and played my first tourney last weekend at a small c tier where ams were trophy only. It was at my home courses and I was debating where to enter but figured rec would be find as the only metric I really had was dgcr rating and mine is like 820... I also checked 1 of the guys who were in division with me and his scores from a diff course that I'd played and they were very similar, so I figured it'd fit.
Ended up with a field of 4, only 1 of which had played the course before (once) as it is between cities so its not played a lot by others. 2 of the others were fairly new and really struggled even for rec and were nowhere near it. The other guy (who I had compared scores to) started out pretty well and was just bombing drives (325-350) but was just too stubborn for his own good and got himself into a lot of trouble. We were back and forth on the box for the 1st 9 and after 11 I was up by 2. Then I went on a birdie streak and he found every tree imaginable (and refused to pitch out to the fairway). After a 6 (where I had a 2) he fell apart and I ended up 9 strokes ahead. I hadn't really been watching my score (just the comparative) and notice that I somehow ended that tourney round with my personal best by 3 strokes (I'd played that tee 24 times before too) which had me stoked.
Given that it was close up till the last few holes and I played so well, I was thinking I had made the right choice...
Then the afternoon round we got to the much harder course (longer with more OB) and it multiplied. I shot another good round (3 off my best for that layout) and he just crumbled. Fun things like taking an 8 on a easy par 3 because you try to hyzer over the OB multiple times (taking the stroke and only advancing 20' up the fairway). Refusing to pitch out on a long par 5 and going 20' at a time up the fairway instead of taking your medicine and throwing from the open. I ended up ahead of him by 17 from that round alone...he actually was passed by one of the others who he had finished 9 strokes ahead of the prior round. He didn't even bother coming back for the sunday round.
At that point I ended up thinking I had made a mistake and should've played up in INT. We played the same layout as them and although the unofficial scores hadn't posted yet, I'm pretty sure I would have ended up 2nd after rd 1, ~4th after round 2, and ~6th after round 3 (I had a much worse rd 3.
Oh well, live and learn. I'll be playing INT now I guess as the one thing I really didn't like about the 2nd and 3rd rounds is that there was no pressure. At that point I knew it didn't matter and I was only playing against my personal best / future rating. It was a lot more fun for the 1st 2/3 of the first round where the pressure was on and I got that feeling of losing/making up a stroke on a good/bad hole.
I was also thankful that it was trophy only - I'd have felt worse if it were for plastic as well. There was 1 comment about someone bagging rec who can throw 350 after we finished, but I just politely let him know that wasn't me...I wish I could throw 350...and throwing 350 doesn't help if you hit a tree at 20'.
Ended up with a field of 4, only 1 of which had played the course before (once) as it is between cities so its not played a lot by others. 2 of the others were fairly new and really struggled even for rec and were nowhere near it. The other guy (who I had compared scores to) started out pretty well and was just bombing drives (325-350) but was just too stubborn for his own good and got himself into a lot of trouble. We were back and forth on the box for the 1st 9 and after 11 I was up by 2. Then I went on a birdie streak and he found every tree imaginable (and refused to pitch out to the fairway). After a 6 (where I had a 2) he fell apart and I ended up 9 strokes ahead. I hadn't really been watching my score (just the comparative) and notice that I somehow ended that tourney round with my personal best by 3 strokes (I'd played that tee 24 times before too) which had me stoked.
Given that it was close up till the last few holes and I played so well, I was thinking I had made the right choice...
Then the afternoon round we got to the much harder course (longer with more OB) and it multiplied. I shot another good round (3 off my best for that layout) and he just crumbled. Fun things like taking an 8 on a easy par 3 because you try to hyzer over the OB multiple times (taking the stroke and only advancing 20' up the fairway). Refusing to pitch out on a long par 5 and going 20' at a time up the fairway instead of taking your medicine and throwing from the open. I ended up ahead of him by 17 from that round alone...he actually was passed by one of the others who he had finished 9 strokes ahead of the prior round. He didn't even bother coming back for the sunday round.
At that point I ended up thinking I had made a mistake and should've played up in INT. We played the same layout as them and although the unofficial scores hadn't posted yet, I'm pretty sure I would have ended up 2nd after rd 1, ~4th after round 2, and ~6th after round 3 (I had a much worse rd 3.
Oh well, live and learn. I'll be playing INT now I guess as the one thing I really didn't like about the 2nd and 3rd rounds is that there was no pressure. At that point I knew it didn't matter and I was only playing against my personal best / future rating. It was a lot more fun for the 1st 2/3 of the first round where the pressure was on and I got that feeling of losing/making up a stroke on a good/bad hole.
I was also thankful that it was trophy only - I'd have felt worse if it were for plastic as well. There was 1 comment about someone bagging rec who can throw 350 after we finished, but I just politely let him know that wasn't me...I wish I could throw 350...and throwing 350 doesn't help if you hit a tree at 20'.
GLong
* Ace Member *
you say the problem is 'physical ability' - if you don't have time to get out and play, do you have time to exercise/work out at home? do you have a practice basket at home?
in my experience, it does not take great physical ability to throw good rounds. i've thrown 950-990 rounds on non pitch/putt courses without throwing a shot over 350'ish.
i hate to sound harsh, but you need to get off the computer if you want to get any better. moving up isn't going to help you if you don't put in the work.
and big part of 'mental game' is learning how to tell your body what to do when you need it to.
from what he said, i would assume driving. i'd like to what your average D is with your top 2/3 drivers. that would be helpful information.
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GLong, I don't want to come off as some unathletic type person. Far from it. I compete in several other sports and as an Army Infantryman, my job requires great physicality. However, I also recognize that there are others who have a natural aptitude for disc golf that I do not. I require more reps to get what some people pick up instantly. That's part of the fum though. Working harder gives me greater appreciation when I master a skill, or, rather, become proficient at it.
My hours are crazy, plain and simple. I know a lot of forum members here can relate. I get about two hours between arriving home from work to going to bed. Doesn't leave a lot of time for practice, unfortunately. As tourney season winds down, I'll be able to spend more time on field work.
As for the driver question:
On golf lines I can get my Terns out to around 375-390, and have gotten them further. My Giants are slightly less but I rarely use them.
My Volt (nice and beat in) isn't too much behind my Terns, with my QOLF more or less the same.
I'm not trying to come off like a sad sack or anything like that. When I can find time to practice, I do. But my life also doesn't revolve around disc golf (nor would I want it to.) I have no aspirations of being a top pro, but I do feel like I have potential that I am not reaching, and that is 100 percent my fault. I'm hoping that moving up, along with lots of practice during the winter, will take me from the bottom of MA2 to the top in 2015, to moving into MA1 in 2016 permanently and not just as a lark.
Of course, if I can move up faster than that I'll be a happy camper...
My hours are crazy, plain and simple. I know a lot of forum members here can relate. I get about two hours between arriving home from work to going to bed. Doesn't leave a lot of time for practice, unfortunately. As tourney season winds down, I'll be able to spend more time on field work.
As for the driver question:
On golf lines I can get my Terns out to around 375-390, and have gotten them further. My Giants are slightly less but I rarely use them.
My Volt (nice and beat in) isn't too much behind my Terns, with my QOLF more or less the same.
I'm not trying to come off like a sad sack or anything like that. When I can find time to practice, I do. But my life also doesn't revolve around disc golf (nor would I want it to.) I have no aspirations of being a top pro, but I do feel like I have potential that I am not reaching, and that is 100 percent my fault. I'm hoping that moving up, along with lots of practice during the winter, will take me from the bottom of MA2 to the top in 2015, to moving into MA1 in 2016 permanently and not just as a lark.
Of course, if I can move up faster than that I'll be a happy camper...
Ok, so quick update.
Played another tournament in MA2 with a very large field and finished third from last (not counting the two who DNFed). Rec, which also had a large field, had a huge disparity in scores. I would have finished third behind banknwank whom I invited to play and my buddy Steve by three strokes. The top four in Rec were ten to fifteen strokes ahead of the rest of the pack, where MA2 was a much steadier decline. No one really blew the person behind them out of the water.
My downfall this tournament was five doinkers the first round (easy putts hitting the cage) and one very ill - advised forehand throw that gave me my only 5 of the tourney on what should have been a bird or easy three. That's seven throws there that would have took me from my recorded ten over to a more respectable three over.
The second round my putting was much, much better. But what did happen, and this is a first for me, was I seemed to run out of gas on the back nine (it was a really long layout). I was even par on the front nine, but just seemed to lose my pop on the back half. The last three holes I was teeing off with a mid because I just couldn't push my drivers. I took a grip of bogeys just because I couldn't get any steam
Like I said, it was a long layout, but most of It was I just have not played much at all in the last month. I was not prepared. What's worse is I have two weekends in a row of tournaments, and those two weeks I will be out in the field training during the week, and unable to practice.
Next weekend in the Denver Classic (2 rounds Saturday and 1 on Sunday) and the weekend after is Mile High which is only two rounds ON saturday. I'll be playing MA2 and MA1 respectively. After that I don't have any events until the second week of September when I'm playing two tourneys in the same weekend. Luckily, work will slow down by them and I can actually focus on putting drills and field work.
So far, moving up hasn't shown appreciable gains, but I am confident that it will by seasons end. I'm giving it to the end of the season, but I'm considering taking all of 2016 off and seeing how I feel about competing in 2017.
Played another tournament in MA2 with a very large field and finished third from last (not counting the two who DNFed). Rec, which also had a large field, had a huge disparity in scores. I would have finished third behind banknwank whom I invited to play and my buddy Steve by three strokes. The top four in Rec were ten to fifteen strokes ahead of the rest of the pack, where MA2 was a much steadier decline. No one really blew the person behind them out of the water.
My downfall this tournament was five doinkers the first round (easy putts hitting the cage) and one very ill - advised forehand throw that gave me my only 5 of the tourney on what should have been a bird or easy three. That's seven throws there that would have took me from my recorded ten over to a more respectable three over.
The second round my putting was much, much better. But what did happen, and this is a first for me, was I seemed to run out of gas on the back nine (it was a really long layout). I was even par on the front nine, but just seemed to lose my pop on the back half. The last three holes I was teeing off with a mid because I just couldn't push my drivers. I took a grip of bogeys just because I couldn't get any steam
Like I said, it was a long layout, but most of It was I just have not played much at all in the last month. I was not prepared. What's worse is I have two weekends in a row of tournaments, and those two weeks I will be out in the field training during the week, and unable to practice.
Next weekend in the Denver Classic (2 rounds Saturday and 1 on Sunday) and the weekend after is Mile High which is only two rounds ON saturday. I'll be playing MA2 and MA1 respectively. After that I don't have any events until the second week of September when I'm playing two tourneys in the same weekend. Luckily, work will slow down by them and I can actually focus on putting drills and field work.
So far, moving up hasn't shown appreciable gains, but I am confident that it will by seasons end. I'm giving it to the end of the season, but I'm considering taking all of 2016 off and seeing how I feel about competing in 2017.
