Speed Ratings?

[optidiscic]

Recent thread about a Tee Rex and a Tee Bird having the same flight characteristics but requiring different speeds to attain the same result. Made me wonder a few things. First are the Tee Bird, the TL and the Tee Rex all part of the same family? Are there other families out there, I heard the Viking and valkyrie are brothers is that so. I also would love to know if there is a chart or a reference to show what a disc does at varying arm speeds. I think this would be more helpful than the current rating systems. I hear some people say a disc is overstable for them turning left early, some say its just perfect flies straight, and still others say the same disc is a flippy paper plate understable and chases gophers after turning right out of the hand. I think it would be cool if Innova could have a sort mechanism where you change the arm speed and it shows what a disc will do at different speeds. It would clarify things a lot more. Do I make sense and is there any tool out there like this?

 

[SoCalDg'r]

I read on discgolfcenter that the destroyer is the big brother to the tee bird

 

[optidiscic]

Destroyer and T bird are brothers..interesting. I was wondering if anyone labels themselves/friends according to arm speeds. Like Joe he drives a 10 speed but Billy drives a 6 speed.

 

[Omega SuperSloth]

The teerex is supposed to have the same flight path as a teebird just longer, and the TL is a teebird long.

 

[Smoost4T]

TeeRex is more overstable than a TeeBird
The L in TL stands for Less Stable

 

[SoCalDg'r]

No actualy, the L stands for Long, check the first few runs of TL's they were stamped Teebird L, and touted by innova as the Tee Bird Long, Same as the SL is the Starfire Long, i have an SL and i can tell ya it is more over stable than the starfire, and the FL is the FireBird Long. No connection between the TeeRex and the TeeBird. And yea, my friends and i tend to give each other crap about each others arm speeds. A few guys we play with are solid 9s, a couple in the 10s and i am startin to creep past 11 and hittin out to 450ish.

 

[Jimb]

I think that the flight paths are based on a theoretical perfect throw for the given disc. I've found that the Innova Chart seems to make sense for my throws.

I can throw my Valkyrie and Sidewinder (both speed 9) so that they do what the Innova chart says that they should do. They both fly understable to very understable for me.

But, for example, I don't quite have the arm speed or technique to throw my 175g Champion Wraith (speed 11) as straight as the charts say it should fly. So by chart standards, it's "too fast" for my normal throw.

I still find it useful, though, as I can throw a flex type shot with it. I throw RHBH and release it with some Annie. It flies to the right and then comes back to the left. But it only goes to the right if I put the Annie on it. If I don't, it hooks hard to the left for me.

Someone with better technique then mine would throw the disc closer to level or even with a hyzer release but I can't do that. Then the disc would match the flight chart because they'd be throwing closer to that theoretical "perfect" throw for the disc.

I do like your idea of showing what a disc would do if thrown at less then optimal power. That could help me a lot. Of course, so could improving my technique!

 

[mashnut]

I think that the flight paths are based on a theoretical perfect throw for the given disc. I've found that the Innova Chart seems to make sense for my throws.

I can throw my Valkyrie and Sidewinder (both speed 9) so that they do what the Innova chart says that they should do. They both fly understable to very understable for me.

But, for example, I don't quite have the arm speed or technique to throw my 175g Champion Wraith (speed 11) as straight as the charts say it should fly. So by chart standards, it's "too fast" for my normal throw.

I still find it useful, though, as I can throw a flex type shot with it. I throw RHBH and release it with some Annie. It flies to the right and then comes back to the left. But it only goes to the right if I put the Annie on it. If I don't, it hooks hard to the left for me.

Someone with better technique then mine would throw the disc closer to level or even with a hyzer release but I can't do that. Then the disc would match the flight chart because they'd be throwing closer to that theoretical "perfect" throw for the disc.

I do like your idea of showing what a disc would do if thrown at less then optimal power. That could help me a lot. Of course, so could improving my technique!

You hit on something good there, find the fastest discs that fly the way they are advertised, and that's your armspeed. Anything faster than that will act progressively more overstable than advertised as the speed goes up. I've been paying attention to the same thing lately, and I feel like I can throw speed 10 discs (on the innova charts) at their speed, and am almost able to get wraiths up to speed.

 

[Hellweg]

what about joes universal flight chart? that has arm speed rating?

http://gottagogottathrow.com/discgo...1.pdf?osCsid=797fe762c5bff16953c8e4715f0b328d

 

[Technohic]

what about joes universal flight chart? that has arm speed rating?

http://gottagogottathrow.com/discgo...1.pdf?osCsid=797fe762c5bff16953c8e4715f0b328d

It sort of does, its more like the faster discs from top left down to top right down as speed.

What I like about Joes is it tells you the power required based on how far you throw, but weight can affect this to. For example, I am probably at 4 power. An average weight disc, that puts me in TL and Teebird range BUT, I can throw a 150 class Boss as well and as straight, just with a little more S flight as a TL.

I have done this, and I recommend not using the ultra-light as it doesnt get you that much more distance and it is going to be more squirly/less reliable.

 

[Omega SuperSloth]

the SL is the Starfire Long, i have an SL and i can tell ya it is more over stable than the starfire, and the FL is the FireBird Long. No connection between the TeeRex and the TeeBird.

actually the SL is less overstable than the starfire and innovas site says the Teerex has the flight of a Teebird with the speed of a wraith

 

[Omega SuperSloth]

TeeRex is more overstable than a TeeBird
The L in TL stands for Less Stable

the L stands for less overstable or long , the TL is actually more stable than the teebird.

 

[discgolphinmafaukner]

I have always thought that the higher the "speed" rating, the more power that is required to throw the disc with the manufacturer's specified characteristics for that distance. Discs with a higher speed rating can handle more power without turning over and falling to the ground. If I put all of the power I have on one of my rocs or classic rocs they just seem to turn over hard and hit the ground and almost roll. However if I put the same power on a destroyer the discs just seem to immediately begin hyzering to the left (RHBH) no matter what angle I release the disc.

Does anyone agree? disagree?

I also found this thread here that gives a more scientific explanation on disc flight. It has lots of big words and fancy diagrams, but I found it helpful.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2250

 

[Technohic]

Yes and no on the speed thing with wether it will flip over or not, its all in design. Too fast for the disc and you will flip it and not fast enough and it will meat hook on you, but there are some slower discs that I think you would be hard pressed to flip, like a Firebird or Banshee. Those are still relatively fast but also, gateway has that one mid that is nasty overstable also.

There is a lot to it to where you cannot give a clear cut this means this.

Theirs the design, to try to make it overstable or understable. I think largely thats what you see from the manufacturers flight charts.

Then their is the speed/power required, and less talked about, max speed/power to put on the disc to get what it should or shouldnt do. A lot of people put too much on the disc in question and think it is just a bad disc, which isnt true, it just isnt for them.

Then you have weight. A 150 class is going to require lest speed/power and is going to get more glide; both of which changes dramatically what the disc might do, and it also makes the disc a bit flakey. Max weight will eliminate the flakey-nes but its going to require more power and get less glide than a 150 class.

Thats just the disc itself there, but then you have other conditions, like weather or maybe even altitude. Personally, I think you could kill yourself trying to get an exact science accounting for everything, so I just look at my favorite chart and say "I throw this disc and it does this flight, so I want a disc that has a little more/less X-stat." and just go with that and it works out ok.

 

[adam423]

It also has to do with how much spin you get on the disc too, not just arm speed.