SuperWookie Form Thread

[Lumberjack504]

Ok. So you're saying moving my thumb back a tiny bit will help align the disc for a nose down flight? If so, I will try that more. But like I said, so far, when throwing with any form of a power grip, I am getting nose up throws most of the time, no matter how I orient my thumb or fingers. But I will try it more to see if it helps. Thanks

Your nose up can be a product of poor balance, swing plane, weight back, etc. Again, this is where video can REALLY help.

 

[Mocheez]

Arm should be loose like a wet noodle with centrifugal force keeping it on plane. Maybe focus on that first.

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah thumb to flight plate helps keep the disc solid feeling and in a good/consistent orientation. I would not recommend the thumb out to the edge...easy to get slips and I find less control on disc angle.

Blood blisters and if you get burning/friction feeling at disc release will likely mean slipping. I can guarantee you are getting grip slips right now, at your distance. If you have the right arcs happening so that the dis is ejected out rather than ripping/slipping early you can just pop them out 275+ like nothing from standstill, especially mids.

How are you lining up your stance? You should be at an angle/offset, roughly your back toes through your front heel to the target. And keep your balance along your stance line, just expect the release to be 20-30 degrees closed of this. Like in baseball pretend you are aligned to the pitcher, but you're going to pull the ball to right centre if you're a lefty batter...just like RHBH you'd throw the disc to right field if you're aligned at the pitcher.

It'd even be helpful to set up your phone or a camera in your house and do some swings indoors. Can use a hammer or something...any visualization on what you're doing will save lots of guesswork. There's definitely some major/crucial things going on at <220'.

I'm glad the new mids worked out, throwing mids straight is a skill that will continue to pay off.

 

[deyo7]

Re: No way to film yourself.

If you don't have anyone in the field with you, you can stack a few discs on top of each other to make a stand for your phone.

Or, you, seem like a detailed guy and will be coming back here regularly so I'd just buy one of these gorilla pod stands: https://joby.com/us-en/griptight-pro-phone-jb01389-config/

I found mine for $25 bucks. I think Crutchfield was having a sale. Amazon, etc. Just get one that's appropriate for size of your phone.

 

[SuperWookie]

Quote from Blake T:

"two-finger backhand grips yield a much greater amount of tendon flexibility. they are also much weaker. the strength aspect is a double edged sword: people who throw two-finger must have better timing to throw successfully and so most people who throw two-finger are better able to manipulate the disc's weight shift naturally (than people who throw with 4) and get the "edge around."
the downside: two-finger grips have much lower strength potential.

with that in mind, while a higher percentage of two finger grippers may throw 350'+, it is more difficult to throw 450'+. i will often train people to throw with two fingers (to develop shifting the disc's weight) and then have them add four and tell them to "do the same thing you did with two." in most cases this yields an increase of 30-50'.

basically: a two-finger grip makes it easier to feel when the disc's edge should come around. a two-finger grip makes it harder to transfer maximum power when you bring the disc's edge around."


I KNEW I was on to something with this two finger grip and FEELING the edge of the disc coming around more then a stiff locked wristed power grip. I definitely feel the edge come around MUCH more and have no problem controlling it, timing is actually better for me. In fact, I had my most accurate straight-ish throws with the 2 finger grip.

I think I'm also going to experiment with the Bonapane grip as well. A lot of people and even this forum say it can help someone learn how to throw more nose down. So that can't hurt, to at the very least, use it just to FEEL the nose down feeling. Then go back to more normal grips once I have the feeling of nose down patterned into my muscle memory. I really don't feel like I will be using a power grip anytime soon. The 2 finger, the fan, and any of those variations (the Climo fork grip looks intriguing as well) seem to allow me to FEEL the disc more like a hammer, instead of just a super light tiny little piece of plastic. It's still not there, it's still frustrating, it's still a ways away. But just moving to that 2 finger grip helped SO much to start the process of feeling how it should feel during a great throw.

So I'm going to not worry so much about the grip and just go with what feels good and allows me to FEEL the correct things that people describe when they talk about the perfect hit and how the disc/arm feels heavy. This grip, that grip, thumb a 1/2" here or there.... all of those things are tiny details that are more or less irrelevant for me at this point. Getting that LATE hit feel is the only thing I care about right now. Everyone has different grips and they all work for different people. Telling someone to grip it like this or like that and making it seem like it's the only way or best way is silly. That is WHY there are different grips. Because everyone feels things differently. Look at someone like Jim Furyk... he has a CRAZY swing, but him and his coach just kept with it, and made it into a very repeatable swing. And he was an excellent pro! Not everyone can have a perfect swing, grip, footwork, weight shift, etc. So there's no point in forcing others to try and do it a specific way. Obviously trying to be perfect is the goal, but there many ways to get an end result

Once I can throw mids 350+ with ease and start moving into driving discs, then I'll start worrying about weather or not I need to incorporate a power grip to be able to "hang on" because of all the power I'm producing. I think that's a long way off though, haha. Just need to work on this Beato drill over and over and the hammer/water bottle throwing drills over and over. Get into a groove of how it feels to let the disc just effortlessly sling out of my hand 300-350 with a mid over an over and straight. Those drills definitely remind me of what it feels like to finally hit a golf ball properly. And that is what I'm looking for. All the little details will fall into place once I feel that and then can repeat it.

Thanks for all the help everyone, I do appreciate it! Just need to get out there as much as the weather allows and practice, practice, practice!

 

[Mocheez]

I agree with your approach. Just don't ignore the lower body, posture, balance, etc. I fell into the trap of focusing on the hit and it got me to 300-350 but I was stuck there until I fixed my swing plane and lower body issues. By then, I had such bad habits that it took years to fix. Sometimes you may feel like you are doing something correctly, but when you see it on video you are doing the opposite of what you feel.

Also, you may want to look at Bradley Walker's closed shoulder snap drill (youtube) if you haven't seen it already.

 

[SuperWookie]

I agree with your approach. Just don't ignore the lower body, posture, balance, etc. I fell into the trap of focusing on the hit and it got me to 300-350 but I was stuck there until I fixed my swing plane and lower body issues. By then, I had such bad habits that it took years to fix. Sometimes you may feel like you are doing something correctly, but when you see it on video you are doing the opposite of what you feel.

Also, you may want to look at Bradley Walker's closed shoulder snap drill (youtube) if you haven't seen it already.

Agreed totally! I just know what I need in order to become good at this. I know all the lower body, upper body, posture, balance, weight shift, etc stuff very well from Golf, Hockey, Tennis, Bowling, Softball, etc. Disc golf may not be exactly like those, but it has a lot of similarities. And athletic ability and muscle memory will help me learn these new techniques and feelings quicker than if I had never played sports or those specific sports. I had those things down a long time ago, and if something is new, I pick them up easily because of my prior experiences. So I won't forget those things. I know them well

But thanks for the help. I appreciate it! Those are details for me at this point. The main thing is figuring out this slingshot/hit feeling and movement. Just something new I need to work on over and over until I get it

And I will DEFINITELY look at that video you referenced. I seem to recall reading a post from SW22 somewhere in some thread, that he mentioned that video as super important for him to learn the hit. Just like a lot of people reference the Beato drill videos from UHB being critical. I am going to watch both of those in more detail and with sound when I get time and then go practice. And then again, and again and again. Also need to remember my hammer next time, haha. I forgot it on Monday as I was so excited to just get out to the football field to try my new discs and work on my throwing motions after all this cold or rainy weather we've had.

I appreciate all of your help and everyone else's. Best

 

[SuperWookie]

Ok, so I'm back after some time away. I've been throwing more finally in the field near me and found a cool little iPhone holder that can clip onto a stake, so I can take video without having to have someone there. Amazon has it for $13! And it works so well. Everyone should get one of these if they want to film their throw! https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L6NMXYQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I'm going to try not to repeat things I've already stated, but if I do, bear with me. I've been throwing in a football field near by for about 2 months now, and I've thrown around 6-7 times in the last month. The weather is finally sort of getting better and less rain. So I'm finally getting out more often and throwing as often as I can between work, the gym, softball, and life.

So let's forget about anything I'm doing alright or well, and just concentrate on the things I'm doing really bad or need improvement in order to see the biggest gains in distance and accuracy. I don't care about small incremental changes, I can work on those and hone those later. I'm only after easy distance right now. Trying to get "the secret mojo" down so I can whip a midrange 350' and hopefully get some control drivers in the 400+ range by the end of this summer. But also with an easy to repeat throw and pretty good accuracy. Basically like Freddy Couples nonchalantly banging a drive right down the right side of the fairway 290 yds.

Videos are at the bottom, but here is all my concerns and thoughts from what I've learned so far from videoing myself broken into two posts, as it's too long for one:

- I'm having a hard time figuring out how to stay turned behind the shot more. I watch Simon Lizotte a LOT (for obvious reason, plus I just love how he throws. It's that easy natural motion that makes you think of Freddy Couples or Ken Griffey Jr). And he doesn't seem to do anything crazy or special. He's just really really good. And it looks very natural. He just wanders up to the throw, most of his x steps are not very fast and he doesn't take many steps. He seems to be like a cat on his toes, much more throughout the throw, and only just before the hit does he have all his weight on his entire plant foot. And during the lead up to the throw, his shoulders are about 90* to his intended target line, then he turns back anywhere between 45-100* during the turnback/reachback to the intended target line, and keeps that closed shoulder angle for a long time in the lead up to his actual throw. At the hit, it doesn't look like I'm that much different than he is in the upper body, but it's everything leading up to the hit, that looks different. I open my shoulders much sooner in the throw than he does, and the disc apparently gets stuck behind me because of that, and comes around my body, instead of having room to swing through. At the hit, we both have our shoulders aiming towards the intended target line, but his elbow is a little farther out in front of him, and he comes into that position from a much more closed position than I do and then he releases the disc much more on a line out in front of him, where as I round the disc around my body. So how do I get more turn into my throw besides the obvious of just turning more? I try really hard to turn more, and it has believe it or not, gotten better since I started, and yet I watch myself on video and I'm not turning enough still.

- Piggy backing on this thought, I don't know how, but I have this odd stunted follow through, that is VERY unlike me compared to other similar sports. My tennis forehand and one hand backhand, baseball/softball swing, golf swing, baseball throw, etc all have HUGE follow through's. It's easy and not something I have to worry about or try to do, it just happens. But for some reason with this disc golf, I just can't get my arm out and way around my body for some reason. It's really annoying to watch on film. I feel myself swinging around and it feels like I'm following through well, but then watching on video it's very apparent that it's not at all. What in my throwing sequence leading up to the hit, is causing me to short arm the follow through and finish so low and around my body? It's like I'm trying to keep the disc low by finishing low or something? I don't know I'm guessing here. I have no idea how I can't finish big and around me, nor why. And I also have this odd V dip from backswing to the hit. So if you watch really slow mo, you can see my disc somehow rides up my back arm, from a lower position to a higher position in the back swing section. Then I start the swing and the disc starts moving up my back arm. Then as I start to go forward with the throw, my arm starts to go slightly down, but RIGHT at the moment before I let go, somehow my body/arm makes a sharp movement back up and creates this soft V shape and then the disc comes out nose up! Sooooo weird and so hard to get rid of. How do I fix this?

 

[SuperWookie]

- I'm letting the disc ride up my back arm during the forward movement of the throw instead of staying level-ish. How do I fix this? I see how Simon and others move into the throw, and yet his disc stays mostly level. It starts out sort of lowish, then by the time he releases, it's a little higher. I can't do that and want to know how I can work on getting this better.

- How can I get more nose down angle? I literally can't do anything to get more nose down. I've tried every grip, every way of holding the disc, I even try the tilt it down and inside trick and it doesn't make a difference. It's a huge problem and one of the main reasons I can't maximize my distance at this stage in my swing progression. I can throw 250-300 all the time from a small step with bad mechanics WITH a nose up angle! If that was nose down, it would be 300-350 no problem. HOW can I accomplish this? It's SOOO annoying.

A lot of these issues I'm having right now are all related. But how do I work on each one individually? Or, how do I fix the main one, that then automatically puts me in a better position down the line of the entire motion? I'm throwing my putters and mids around 220-250 even with this bad form fairly regularly. And my speed 7 mids/fw's go around 250-300 regularly.

One time a few weeks ago, I grip locked a throw and threw it really far, but about a 100' right of my intended target line, haha! I throw from the goal post to the middle of the field and am trying to get to the other end zone. But it's not happening yet. But this one throw just zinged out of my hand and felt slightly lighter than all my other throws, but more or less about the same as any other throw I've had. But.... as I watched it, it just kept going and going and going and seemed like it was never going to land, even though it was only about 15-20' off the ground. When it landed, I was like, oh wow, that was good, just WAY right. And then when I finally walked all the way up to it, I was like, DAMN! That went way farther than I thought. I measured it on google maps on the football field I throw and it measured out to around 359-ish feet! And all of my throws so far are either stand still or just with a one step. So If I can just get my technique down a lot better, the sequencing, stay turned behind the throw much better, and keep the disc nose down, I think I can throw it a LOT farther than I am right now. But that's always much easier said than done. Looking to get help from all you guys on here.

Please take it easy with me and keep the suggestions positive and helpful Thanks

https://vimeo.com/341451446

https://vimeo.com/341451355

 

[sidewinder22]

only just before the hit does he have all his weight on his entire plant foot.

Disagree.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133319

 

[sidewinder22]

You need to get your heels up. Your toes are above your heel in the stride, you can't crush the can like that. Your weight moves/shifts with the heels trading up/down positions. You need to plant on toes first and fall to the heel as your rear heel is driven forward/up from rear toes/instep.

One of the more difficult moves that Simon does is how he strides more circular into the plant and you are making the misinterpretation I demo below. You are trying to stagger your stance too closed by striding/swaying to the left, instead of striding to the right and going inside-out from creating internal torque.

 

[SuperWookie]

So I must be seeing things then that aren't happening in all the players throws? This screen shot below and most of all the others I keep seeing, clearly show the throwers foot has not only touched down on the toe, but then planted the entire foot to the ground, heel and all. Then they start the forward throw. Meaning their weight is now on their front leg. Simon's back foot toe is barely touching the ground at this point, which means his weight is on his front leg. And the disc has still not started forward. It has just reached it's farthest point behind him, and then immediately starts into the forward part of the throw. So how is that not exactly what I just said? Am I missing something? And then can you explain the importance of all these sequence of events? What order should they be happening in, but WAY more importantly, WHY does it matter that they happen in said sequence. I see what is happening, I just don't know why they are doing certain things in a certain order, which is much more important.

You can clearly see that his toe and heel have come down completely onto the ground, and THEN he starts the forward part of his swing. The disc is still going back leading up to this moment, then right when his heel touches down, his arm begins to move forward.

Also, I'm really confused by this still shot of that video above. That guy on the left is fairly identical to Simon in a lot of ways. It's only the lower half that looks bad. The guy on the left has closed shoulders and big angle in his arm, just like Simon. Simon just happens to have the disc back a little farther in that screen shot, which could be a million reasons why (angle of the camera, the point the video is being stopped in the swing to take the shot, etc). The guy on the left has tons of lag with his disc, it's way behind him. I have no idea what it means in the markup where it says his front shoulder is jammed up? It looks closed to me, which is a good thing? Right? And then the guy on the left looks much more balanced and centered, where as Simon looks like he's tipping over the front with his shoulders aiming down (which once again could just be due to the camera angle, or he could just be throwing the disc into the ground, I don't know. I've never seen anyone have their shoulders tilted down like that, it's very odd). So the upper body, looks just about the same as Simon and maybe better in a few aspects. So can you explain all of that to me, I'm totally not understanding what is wrong with the guy on the left as far as his upper body is concerned. I can clearly see his lower body is not in an athletic weight on his right leg position, but the upper bodies look almost identical.


And then on to your reply about my weight being more on my toes then my heels. I know that I'm not putting my weight on my toes. But I am throwing from a stand still or with a medium step. No x step. So I'm not walking or jogging up to the throw. If I was, I would be more on my toes. So can you explain why that matters, to be more on my toes, even from a standstill? I see in your backhand throws, you're flat on your foot at certain parts of the throw. Can you please explain how that is ok, or what you are doing differently than I am. And more importantly why does it matter? Will I start throwing 300-350' if I have my weight more on my frpnt toes instead of my heel? I feel like that is a minor issue, not a major one? But I could be wrong, since I am not seeming to catch on to the disc golf throw as quickly as I thought I would, haha.

I appreciate your tips and I've been learning a few more things from your videos, but still just not getting the key pts to throw. What really is the key to throwing it far with ease?

 

[Coreymill]

only just before the hit does he have all his weight on his entire plant foot.

'Just before the hit' would be a position where the disc is as close to your body/chest as it ever is during the throw (right before arm extension and disc moving away from body and ejecting).

So, your previous statement makes is sound as you are saying he doesn't get onto his plant until the disc is at center chest ... not at full reachback as you are saying in your new post.

 

[SuperWookie]

'Just before the hit' would be a position where the disc is as close to your body/chest as it ever is during the throw (right before arm extension and disc moving away from body and ejecting).

So, your previous statement makes is sound as you are saying he doesn't get onto his plant until the disc is at center chest ... not at full reachback as you are saying in your new post.

Sorry, must be semantics. I'm saying, in both posts, that Simon has his foot completely flat on the ground. His back foot is off the ground with only the toe barely touching. So meaning, his weight is basically on his front leg? Right? Then at that point is when he begins his forward part of the throw. Meaning, his arm and all of his body start lateral moving forward. So that would mean, that you don't start the shift forward with your hips and body and arm until you have planted and your weight is on your front foot? Correct?

I'm just trying to figure out the sequence of events, so I can try and work on this. And any help or advice is appreciated. Specifically related to my questions I laid out? Thanks

 

[sidewinder22]

Also, I'm really confused by this still shot of that video above. That guy on the left is fairly identical to Simon in a lot of ways. It's only the lower half that looks bad. The guy on the left has closed shoulders and big angle in his arm, just like Simon. Simon just happens to have the disc back a little farther in that screen shot, which could be a million reasons why (angle of the camera, the point the video is being stopped in the swing to take the shot, etc). The guy on the left has tons of lag with his disc, it's way behind him. I have no idea what it means in the markup where it says his front shoulder is jammed up? It looks closed to me, which is a good thing? Right? And then the guy on the left looks much more balanced and centered, where as Simon looks like he's tipping over the front with his shoulders aiming down (which once again could just be due to the camera angle, or he could just be throwing the disc into the ground, I don't know. I've never seen anyone have their shoulders tilted down like that, it's very odd). So the upper body, looks just about the same as Simon and maybe better in a few aspects. So can you explain all of that to me, I'm totally not understanding what is wrong with the guy on the left as far as his upper body is concerned. I can clearly see his lower body is not in an athletic weight on his right leg position, but the upper bodies look almost identical.

Some of the differences are hard to see from the camera angle and looking at a static image of a dynamic motion can be deceiving, i.e. you look at a skier in a turn and the static image says they aren't balanced because they are leaning over to the inside, when in fact they are in perfect dynamic balance to the G-forces being experienced by the athlete. The player on the left is hugging himself with a narrower upper arm angle and using his arm bring the elbow/disc forward into the body before his rear foot deweights, and his disc is already over the rear knee, this is the opposite of lag. The front shoulder is higher than the left shoulder and not free to swing forward like Simon's front shoulder swinging more forward like a pendulum.

The difference below is that Marc Jarvis has allowed his torso to turn or release thru with the G-forces being produced and he is counter weighted/balanced with the rear leg/arm going behind the front leg. The skier wants to actually reverse direction so he keeps his counterweight/balance to the reverse direction and rear foot in front of the lead.

 

[sidewinder22]

And then can you explain the importance of all these sequence of events? What order should they be happening in, but WAY more importantly, WHY does it matter that they happen in said sequence. I see what is happening, I just don't know why they are doing certain things in a certain order, which is much more important.

I agree with what you are saying there. I would recommend watching the baseball videos in the Kinetic Sequence thread especially the Whip Effect to the explain the sequence and the why.

 

[sidewinder22]

And then on to your reply about my weight being more on my toes then my heels. I know that I'm not putting my weight on my toes. But I am throwing from a stand still or with a medium step. No x step. So I'm not walking or jogging up to the throw. If I was, I would be more on my toes. So can you explain why that matters, to be more on my toes, even from a standstill? I see in your backhand throws, you're flat on your foot at certain parts of the throw. Can you please explain how that is ok, or what you are doing differently than I am. And more importantly why does it matter? Will I start throwing 300-350' if I have my weight more on my frpnt toes instead of my heel? I feel like that is a minor issue, not a major one? But I could be wrong, since I am not seeming to catch on to the disc golf throw as quickly as I thought I would, haha.

I was specifically talking about your right foot as it strides forward and plants. Your toes are higher than your heel and land flat footed/heel first. That means you aren't engaging your foot or calf or butt muscles. You will note below how I'm landing toes first, and maybe hard to see but my rear heel is deweighted. Also note how you have strided over to the left into a more staggered closed stance with the front foot turned more open, while I'm striding straight inline to target with the front foot turned back more closed and allowing a much longer backswing.

 

[SuperWookie]

Some of the differences are hard to see from the camera angle and looking at a static image of a dynamic motion can be deceiving, i.e. you look at a skier in a turn and the static image says they aren't balanced because they are leaning over to the inside, when in fact they are in perfect dynamic balance to the G-forces being experienced by the athlete. The player on the left is hugging himself with a narrower upper arm angle and using his arm bring the elbow/disc forward into the body before his rear foot deweights, and his disc is already over the rear knee, this is the opposite of lag. The front shoulder is higher than the left shoulder and not free to swing forward like Simon's front shoulder swinging more forward like a pendulum.

The difference below is that Marc Jarvis has allowed his torso to turn or release thru with the G-forces being produced and he is counter weighted/balanced with the rear leg/arm going behind the front leg. The skier wants to actually reverse direction so he keeps his counterweight/balance to the reverse direction and rear foot in front of the lead.

So when you say he's hugging himself, I'm not entirely sure what that entails. But I'll take a crack at it. The guy on the left, and myself, are keeping the bicep/tricep part of our arm (the upper arm?) too close to our bodies because we start the swing with our arm too soon? And I need to somehow keep my upper arm/elbow out in front more? How do I do that? Will turning more in my back swing sort of auto correct the hugging and the collapsing of the upper arm into my chest? Or is there something else I need to work on in order to get a larger upper arm angle for the majority of the throw? I see Simon keeps his arm bent literally 95% of the throw or more. He holds the disc in his stomach area with his elbow out in front, then he shifts his weight back, then he turns, and even when he's turning, he still keeps the disc close to his stomach, but with his elbow out front. Then at the last second, right when his toe and then heels touches down on his plant leg, that is when his arm is extended all the way back. But then just as quickly, it comes back in. So I get confused and not sure how to accomplish all this. I feel like everyone wants me to keep the disc close to my body, but I'm not sure how to do that AND keep my upper arm at a wide angle for the majority of the throw.

My next question directly ties into this one. I keep reading more and more about how I need to brace into the leg before I even start the pull. Correct? And then here you mention it above. So obviously it's important. So what am I supposed to be doing with my body until I move my arm/disc forward? I obviously have to get my weight forward to throw it far, so what is the sequence of weight shifting before I even start pulling with my arm? And are any parts of my body turning before I start to pull with my arm? And am I turning any body parts while I'm near the actual hit/release point of the disc? I feel like I keep reading to throw the disc out and straight away from my body. But then I'm also supposed to be turning my body. So I don't see how they mesh. It's very confusing.

Also, I read a few posts by either you or HUB today that once again got me thinking more about some stuff I hadn't thought about before that may be critical. This idea of transferring your weight into the braced leg, then starting the forward part of the swing with the upper body. And one of you or both of you said something like: think of it like the lower body is so braced on the front leg that not only could you play tug of war right at that moment with someone in front of you, but that the upper body/disc almost feels like it's hitting a wall and the braced leg rips the disc out of your hand. It's like your arm wants to keep going forward, but the lower body is so braced, that once you start whipping the disc through, it almost feels like it hits a wall and gets pulled out of your hand. Does that sound about right? And can you go into more detail about that feeling and how I can work on doing that? I really feel like this might be a HUGE part of the distance equation. I can literally feel it and see it in my head, I just can't do it right now, because I don't know how. I can do it with a baseball/softball bat, golf club, or tennis racket, but that is because they weigh a lot more and it's super easy to feel the head weight. In disc golf, it's NOT easy.

Same thing goes for that swim move Simon does with his plant leg. I saw that weeks ago before anyone pointed it out to me, and I was going to ask about it, because once again, from tons of previous sports, I can sense and feel it in my mind, why he is doing that. It's delaying the movement forward just a tad longer to build up even more momentum to REALLY rip on the disc. And it's not something I want to worry about right now, but maybe down the road work on adding is I totally can understand why he does and can see and feel it.

And it sounds like I need to be fully weighted onto my plant foot/leg before I even think of bringing my arm/upper body forward? So how would I work on this? What parts of my body do I want to move to initiate the forward part of the throw, ONCE my plant leg is down and my weight is off my back foot? I know WHAT I need to do, I'm having a hard time comprehending HOW to do some of these things as they are not natural. The only thing in golf that ever threw me off and was hard to get was the lag in the swing. Once I was shown that, and understood why I needed to do it, it was NOT easy to learn it. It felt SUPER awkward and it took months of everyday practice until I finally got it. And I feel like there are a few things in this Disc Golf throw that are causing me the same roadblocks.

Going to watch those videos you posted for me over the next few days and try to digest what their trying to teach me so that Friday when I go out, I can work on them. Tonight, I'm just working on getting MUCH farther turned behind the shot with my shoulders, planting down on my toes before my heel, and trying to keep my arm on plane throughout the swing. Thanks for now :thmbup:

 

[SuperWookie]

I was specifically talking about your right foot as it strides forward and plants. Your toes are higher than your heel and land flat footed/heel first. That means you aren't engaging your foot or calf or butt muscles. You will note below how I'm landing toes first, and maybe hard to see but my rear heel is deweighted. Also note how you have strided over to the left into a more staggered closed stance with the front foot turned more open, while I'm striding straight inline to target with the front foot turned back more closed and allowing a much longer backswing.

I totally see what you are talking about here, and I know I'm doing it, haha. It's just very hard to NOT do this right now. But... I will work on this tonight for sure! Thanks :thmbup:

 

[sidewinder22]

So when you say he's hugging himself, I'm not entirely sure what that entails. But I'll take a crack at it. The guy on the left, and myself, are keeping the bicep/tricep part of our arm (the upper arm?) too close to our bodies because we start the swing with our arm too soon? And I need to somehow keep my upper arm/elbow out in front more? How do I do that? Will turning more in my back swing sort of auto correct the hugging and the collapsing of the upper arm into my chest? Or is there something else I need to work on in order to get a larger upper arm angle for the majority of the throw? I see Simon keeps his arm bent literally 95% of the throw or more. He holds the disc in his stomach area with his elbow out in front, then he shifts his weight back, then he turns, and even when he's turning, he still keeps the disc close to his stomach, but with his elbow out front. Then at the last second, right when his toe and then heels touches down on his plant leg, that is when his arm is extended all the way back. But then just as quickly, it comes back in. So I get confused and not sure how to accomplish all this. I feel like everyone wants me to keep the disc close to my body, but I'm not sure how to do that AND keep my upper arm at a wide angle for the majority of the throw.

My next question directly ties into this one. I keep reading more and more about how I need to brace into the leg before I even start the pull. Correct? And then here you mention it above. So obviously it's important. So what am I supposed to be doing with my body until I move my arm/disc forward? I obviously have to get my weight forward to throw it far, so what is the sequence of weight shifting before I even start pulling with my arm? And are any parts of my body turning before I start to pull with my arm? And am I turning any body parts while I'm near the actual hit/release point of the disc? I feel like I keep reading to throw the disc out and straight away from my body. But then I'm also supposed to be turning my body. So I don't see how they mesh. It's very confusing.

Also, I read a few posts by either you or HUB today that once again got me thinking more about some stuff I hadn't thought about before that may be critical. This idea of transferring your weight into the braced leg, then starting the forward part of the swing with the upper body. And one of you or both of you said something like: think of it like the lower body is so braced on the front leg that not only could you play tug of war right at that moment with someone in front of you, but that the upper body/disc almost feels like it's hitting a wall and the braced leg rips the disc out of your hand. It's like your arm wants to keep going forward, but the lower body is so braced, that once you start whipping the disc through, it almost feels like it hits a wall and gets pulled out of your hand. Does that sound about right? And can you go into more detail about that feeling and how I can work on doing that? I really feel like this might be a HUGE part of the distance equation. I can literally feel it and see it in my head, I just can't do it right now, because I don't know how. I can do it with a baseball/softball bat, golf club, or tennis racket, but that is because they weigh a lot more and it's super easy to feel the head weight. In disc golf, it's NOT easy.

Same thing goes for that swim move Simon does with his plant leg. I saw that weeks ago before anyone pointed it out to me, and I was going to ask about it, because once again, from tons of previous sports, I can sense and feel it in my mind, why he is doing that. It's delaying the movement forward just a tad longer to build up even more momentum to REALLY rip on the disc. And it's not something I want to worry about right now, but maybe down the road work on adding is I totally can understand why he does and can see and feel it.

And it sounds like I need to be fully weighted onto my plant foot/leg before I even think of bringing my arm/upper body forward? So how would I work on this? What parts of my body do I want to move to initiate the forward part of the throw, ONCE my plant leg is down and my weight is off my back foot? I know WHAT I need to do, I'm having a hard time comprehending HOW to do some of these things as they are not natural. The only thing in golf that ever threw me off and was hard to get was the lag in the swing. Once I was shown that, and understood why I needed to do it, it was NOT easy to learn it. It felt SUPER awkward and it took months of everyday practice until I finally got it. And I feel like there are a few things in this Disc Golf throw that are causing me the same roadblocks.

Going to watch those videos you posted for me over the next few days and try to digest what their trying to teach me so that Friday when I go out, I can work on them. Tonight, I'm just working on getting MUCH farther turned behind the shot with my shoulders, planting down on my toes before my heel, and trying to keep my arm on plane throughout the swing. Thanks for now :thmbup:

I agree it's much easier to feel with a heavier object and you need to pretend the disc is that heavy and move your body/arm the same way together. With a disc/lighter object the tendency is to try and go as fast as possible and spin the body out of leverage.

It's much easier to think/feel about this in terms of fencing or slashing thru with the disc or the Olympic Hammer Throw with one arm and just allowing the elbow to hinge for a double pendulum. You basically just want the lower arm/disc to bend inward to your center and then release/whip out away from your center. If you try to rotate your body too fast without the upper arm connected to the shoulders, you will hug yourself and end up with too much slack and the lower arm/disc get caught behind the left shoulder rotation and can't swing the disc thru your center.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133733