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The Newest Crush Boy is an ANIMAL.

mizunodave said:
I'm about to derail the **** out of this thread. Sorry.

Look at his stature.

I know adult men have a physical advantage over adult women, but a small 14 year old? Throwing farther than just about any adult woman in the world?
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Only a handful of the FPO field have good BH form, PP having elite form.

Compare that to MPO where you have to have really good form to see them in tourney footage.

Get this kid out to any local league night with lots of "good" players and he'd outthrow the crap out of them too. That was awesome to see.
 
I guess I'm just puzzled that FPO is so far behind MPO if the physical limitation is less significant than I assumed. Based on this there is no reason the top FPO players won't all be throwing 450 and hovering around 1000 in a few years, right? How many years would you guess?
 
mizunodave said:
I guess I'm just puzzled that FPO is so far behind MPO if the physical limitation is less significant than I assumed. Based on this there is no reason the top FPO players won't all be throwing 450 and hovering around 1000 in a few years, right? How many years would you guess?
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I wish and I'm waiting for it. It drives me nuts.

That's the thing, so many FPO players can get away with HUGE flaws in their games. Like several flaws. And still place really well consistently. The full on high level competition just isn't there yet.

The new players are getting better and better at everything, so it will happen.

But until you get burned by losing terribly for avoiding FH's every round, or avoiding BH's every round, or sucking at putting, or not running putts outside the circle, or hitting OB's everywhere then why change quickly? And after that, THEN I think it'll have to be a high level backhand and high level forehand. The 450' BH is a huge advantage in FPO, yes, but honestly I think playing 95% solid within 350' would win every time right now.

Look at MPO though too, everyone is getting better. Yes there's a handful of names we expect to win at most events...but there are SO many solid players that someone can sneak in and take an event any weekend now, aside from the big hyzer fests where Eagle/Simon have huge advantages, combined with their putting skills. Paul and Rick can't play their B game and have a good chance of winning anymore, several people can outplay them if they make a few mistakes now.
 
Some would say that Paul played his B putting game right now and finished 2nd, 10th and 4th... Not that bad with his putting rating in C1x (76%).
 
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BeRReGoN said:
Some would say that Paul played his B putting game right now and finished 2nd, 10th and 4th... Not that bad with his putting rating in C1x (76%).
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Exactly. He's just that good. But he used to be able to win basically every single tournament over the season...now if he has something not work out he doesn't win.
 
slowplastic said:
Exactly. He's just that good. But he used to be able to win basically every single tournament over the season...now if he has something not work out he doesn't win.
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Yes it's true. As for the why the women are not as good as a 14yo boy, I might sound sexist on this women's day but I think it's more than physical to explain the difference. When I was in college I've played chess and watched grand master tournament. There's no physical reasons for women to be less good than men at chess. I don't know if it's difference in the brain or just cultural on how we educated boys and girls but from my anecdotal experience, women just are not as competitive as men in general. They don't take defeat as bad as men so they might not feel the need to improve as hard as men.
 
DoWork said:
Well this tale has now taken a strange and surprisingly dark turn. That's really unfortunate to hear.
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It's not a big deal, pretty typical of parents whose kids play competitive sports. Zach volunteered this as a funny story as we were playing that hole. My response was to ask him if he enjoyed playing disc golf. He said, "Usually." I chucked a lot of sticks at his putter after the round but never got it down. Probably still there.
 
brutalbrutus said:
I wonder who the youngest person is to shot a 1000 rated round?... I think Zach was 13 or had just turned 14 when he got his first.
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https://www.pdga.com/player/24437/details
David Wiggins's first 1000+ round was Oct 1, 2006. He was born in 1995, making him 11-12 for his first 1000 round.

Side note: I used to beat Wiggins all the time. Then he turned 13 and I never beat him again.
 
BeRReGoN said:
Yes it's true. As for the why the women are not as good as a 14yo boy, I might sound sexist on this women's day but I think it's more than physical to explain the difference. When I was in college I've played chess and watched grand master tournament. There's no physical reasons for women to be less good than men at chess. I don't know if it's difference in the brain or just cultural on how we educated boys and girls but from my anecdotal experience, women just are not as competitive as men in general. They don't take defeat as bad as men so they might not feel the need to improve as hard as men.
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I really don't want to get this into a bad derail that gets people upset or heated. I just don't think the word "educated" is correct in what you said...that makes me think of intelligence and learning capabilities, etc. In many university classes females lead the grades, for example. I think you more mean societal factors, that of which I am not an expert in and therefore don't want to comment much, especially on the why's.

I would just compare to a group of guys who play disc golf together all the time, say they meet up once or twice a week and always play as a group. If one or two guys always beat their friends by a couple strokes by shooting around par, they might think they are sufficiently good and should pretty much always win. Then if they play with some other people one day and get beaten by 5+ strokes...suddenly they realize there's another level. Up to them if they are fine enough at their current place winning all the time with their friends, or if they see that next part and feel like they are able to and need to step it up. Plus if they just play with their friends, it'll be harder to improve and learn all those next details, got to find a new way to practice better.

Basically my point is, I think it's the competitiveness of the field. If the top few players feel they can always be the top few players, they will improve at a slow pace. If suddenly they need to "work" hard on part of their game to stay current...well then they'll get better way faster. That's why the flubbed putts and non-existant FH or BH of some players makes me upset. I know they KNOW that these parts of the game can be better. So just get better at it and dominate everyone else. Like could you imagine a Hokom who didn't putt like a wounded duck flies and who has a 350' BH? She would crush so many players every tournament. Or a PP with a 350' FH and who played safe?
 
GBO had 1600 competitors last year. I did the math and right at 10% were women. That's the largest sample size we're going to get. Let's say that's accurate to people playing disc golf at all levels throughout the world. For every one woman playing there are nine men. I believe that's the main reason FPO is so far behind. Just a smaller pool of athletes to pull from.

Years ago Climo and Barry dominated. They were good but the pool of players was so much smaller, there was no one like Simon or Eagle. And I don't think MPO has peaked. Can you imagine true athletes like LeBron choosing to play disc golf professionally? We will never get the tip top athletes like that but there is a lot of room between Paul and LeBron.

I think FPO may just be ten to fifteen years behind MPO in building that larger pool of players to draw better athletes from. Part of the reason FPO coverage is so important.

A teenage girl sees Paige crushing and realizes she could do that, she may end up being the Serena Williams of disc golf. She just sees Simon crushing because there is no FPO coverage and she thinks, "wow that's cool" but she never tries herself because that's just guys doing guy things.
 
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slowplastic said:
I really don't want to get this into a bad derail that gets people upset or heated. I just don't think the word "educated" is correct in what you said...that makes me think of intelligence and learning capabilities, etc. ....
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English isn't my first language so I might have used it wrong but I was not thinking about intelligence when I said educated. Anyway I think I was kind of wrong and I should say that I think women in many situations can be as competitive in life but like others said in general for games, they don't seem to be caring as much as men.

To come back to my chess example, it's been a while women play chess at a high level even against men but the top women are still significantly lower rating than the top men. There's no physical/form explanation. It might be because they started later in life to really focus in an activity because growing up in many culture, games and competition are seen more as a boy's thing. Even later in life their priorities might change quicker than men because of family, less money in their sport for women, less competition, etc...

I didn't follow the chess scene since a long time but it's no surprise that right now the top 2 player are 2 Chinese woman. They probably started at a very young age and in China they will focus training for kids in in one activity or sport very early.
 
mizunodave said:
GBO had 1600 competitors last year. I did the math and right at 10% were women. That's the largest sample size we're going to get. Let's say that's accurate to people playing disc golf at all levels throughout the world. For every one woman playing there are nine men. I believe that's the main reason FPO is so far behind. Just a smaller pool of athletes to pull from.
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Another data point. 4% of my viewers are ladies.
 
mizunodave said:
Can you imagine true athletes like LeBron choosing to play disc golf professionally? We will never get the tip top athletes like that but there is a lot of room between Paul and LeBron.
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Thread derail
Disc golf is NOT an athletic competition like basketball, football, wrestling, running etc. Being athletic helps but it's not going to make you light years ahead of everyone else. Do you think superstars like LeBron would also be the best at golf, chess, or similar sports/activities that don't require extreme athleticism?
 
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