The Reason I Push Disc Minimalism

[dgdave]

So is throwing DX ranchos and (2007) ontarios one mold or two, and what happens when the San Marinos come along this year?

3 molds, 3 different discs.

 

[Parks]

So is throwing DX ranchos and (2007) ontarios one mold or two, and what happens when the San Marinos come along this year?

3 molds, 3 different discs.

Exactly.

However, in my book its kind of a cheat. If you are used to beat Ranchos, you have a very good idea of how a newer Ontario will feel and fly.

Its three distinct molds for sure. However, if you throw Rocs and you don't currently have a beat Roc to put in the bag, then an Ontario Roc will be a more minimalistic choice than a Buzzz or a Stingray.

Some may disagree, but that has been my experience.

 

[Fritz]

So is throwing DX ranchos and (2007) ontarios one mold or two, and what happens when the San Marinos come along this year?

3 molds, 3 different discs.

Exactly.

However, in my book its kind of a cheat. If you are used to beat Ranchos, you have a very good idea of how a newer Ontario will feel and fly.

Its three distinct molds for sure. However, if you throw Rocs and you don't currently have a beat Roc to put in the bag, then an Ontario Roc will be a more minimalistic choice than a Buzzz or a Stingray.

Some may disagree, but that has been my experience.

Absolutely.

What would you say about the same disc, in different plastic? i.e Champ, Sirius , X, etc...

 

[garublador1]

What would you say about the same disc, in different plastic? i.e Champ, Sirius , X, etc...

Here's how I'd rate all of it from most to least minamilistic:

1. Weight change
2. Run change
3. Plastic change
4. "Related" mold change
5. Mold change

So, if you're going to carry multiples of a mold, having everything be the same plastic, weight and run would be the most minamilistic. To be slightly less minamilisic you could vary the weight. I believe Blake's original post assumed that 1-3 could be changed without defeating the minamilst philosophy. I've found that changing 1-3 will normally give you a slight variaion on how the disc flies, not a whole new flightpath like you normally see between mold changes.

I'm curious to hear what others think of this, this is just my first stab at it.

 

[tushamajig131]

I completely agree. even though there are slight variations in a mold between plastics, it is essentially the same disc. The difference between a star orc and a star wraith are definitely noticable, while the difference between a star orc and a champion orc is much less. I believe that disc minimalism is a technique used to take the emphasis off the disc and put more emphasis on the shot. If every disc feels the same, it must be executed and the correct version of that disc be chosen. Also, it takes out the adjustment necessary when switching from a flat, straight drive to a sweeping hyzer.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Fritz]

Interesting. Great break down.

For me, then I have a QMS(3), a Q-Sentinel (2), SJLS, Orion LS (Sirius)(2), Orion LF (Sirius and Quantum)(3, 2 Sirius 1 Quantum), Omega SS, Q-Mega.

So according to that scale I have 5 Molds, plus 2 putter molds, I'd consider SS a different mold then the Q version.

What you think of my assessment?

 

[tushamajig131]

I think it works just fine the way i think about minimalism

I generally have 4-5 rocs (dx and kc mix), 2 wizards (exactly the same, but one is more beat), a sentinel or two (Q), 4-5 leopards (champ, star, dx, pro), 4-5 orcs (star, champ, pro, dx), and a couple utility discs that rarely get used (2 champ sidewinders, z flick/spirit)

So of the discs I use for 99% of my shots, 5 molds, 14-16 discs and then if you include all shots, 6-7 molds and 18-20 discs.

it works for me

 

[Parks]

Here's how I'd rate all of it from most to least minamilistic:

1. Weight change
2. Run change
3. Plastic change
4. "Related" mold change
5. Mold change

So, if you're going to carry multiples of a mold, having everything be the same plastic, weight and run would be the most minamilistic. To be slightly less minamilisic you could vary the weight. I believe Blake's original post assumed that 1-3 could be changed without defeating the minamilst philosophy. I've found that changing 1-3 will normally give you a slight variaion on how the disc flies, not a whole new flightpath like you normally see between mold changes.

This is true, with some gray areas, of course.

Sometimes weight change matters very little (non-gyroscopic discs, very true stable discs such as Teebirds and Predators), or weight change can matter a lot (Valkyries and other purely gyroscopically stable discs).

Run change can either not matter at all (DX Rocs and quite a few other molds tend to be consistent from run to run) or it can matter as much as a mold change (the Discraft Torque was inconsistent even in the same runs, Beast mold has significantly changed three times).

Plastic can also matter very little or a lot. Star and Champion plastic fly pretty similar, Pro is fairly close in flight to those but longer, while DX is often quite different.

If you try to make an absolute pure minimalist bag, you will drive yourself crazy.

Following Blake's general minimalism guidelines is your best bet, and only make exceptions when you know there is a need for it.

For me, the Ontario Roc is the exception in my bag. Without it, I would not have a disc in my bag that could turn at low speeds. This is a hole that is necessary and usually can't be filled by an anny shot with a stable disc.

 

[garublador1]

If you try to make an absolute pure minimalist bag, you will drive yourself crazy.

I definitely agree with that. The list I made is pretty pedantic and not intended to be used to build a bag. It may be useful when deciding between two discs if you're the type of person that wants to go into detail, but like you said, there are a lot of grey areas that can vary quite a bit from disc to disc.

 

[JR]

If you try to make an absolute pure minimalist bag, you will drive yourself crazy.

I definitely agree with that. The list I made is pretty pedantic and not intended to be used to build a bag. It may be useful when deciding between two discs if you're the type of person that wants to go into detail, but like you said, there are a lot of grey areas that can vary quite a bit from disc to disc.

Third here. I use the term minimalistic enough. I'm thinking of exceptional situations among exceptions here. Like being in trouble after having lost discs. Then a bit more than the absolute minimum is usually not redundant or harmful. Vice versa actually. I can putt with a Double D but not too well from distance Not that I'd keep that disc in my bag . :wink:

 

[Bjaardker]

I'm beginning to pare down the number of molds in my bag after reading this thread. I used to bowl & realized I was doing in DG what I used to accuse all of the newbies in bowling of, buying too much equipment without the skill of knowing how to use it right.

I just started playing in June and I'm not able to drive for much more than 200-225 regularly.

So at this point I'm looking at the following:

Driver: I picked up a Discraft XL last week & think I might have found my driver. It's easy to throw, does what I ask it. I was going to go with the Valkyrie, but I like the feel of the pro-D plastic over the DX. I'm also looking at picking up a 150 class Z-Flick for my forehand shots. It might be hard for me to take my T-Bone out of my bag too because of the way it hangs onto anhysers so well.

Midrange: DX Roc. I've got one & I'm thinking about picking up another. Not much to be said about this one.

Thumber/Tommie: Buzz FLX. I've found this disc really predictable and used it as a thumber at Justin Trails in Sparta, WI to pick up my first and second birdies ever.

Putt/Approach: I really like the feel of the Magnet D. I'm comfortable with it in my hand, and just recently have made some amazing approach shots with it. I have 1 and will be buying at least 3 more. However the Magnet is a STRAIGHT flyer with very little fade. So for shots needing a bit of a bend I'm wondering if I want something else. I'm thinking of keeping either my beat up Aviar or QuestAT Rock-it in my bag for those shots.

And that's it:

3 Pro-D XL
2 DX ROC
3 or 4 Magnet D
1 Buzz ESP FLX
1 Beat-in Aviar or Rock-It
(Possibly 1 Z-flick 150 and 1 T-Bone depending on what people say here)

Does that look like a sane bag for a starter?

 

[Timko]

That looks good. Minimalism only goes as far as the shots you have in your bag. For example, I know people who can throw nice, long hyzers with a magnet, but it's easier to do with a more stable putter.

The teebone is probably not needed, but only if you can throw those same big anhyzers with an XL. If not, keep it in your bag until you can, or decide that the teebone works better for this shot for you.

 

[J-Man]

Great discussion.
5 molds
9 discs
Discraft of course

 

[Timko]

Right now?

Wizards (3)
Elements (2)
Demon (1)
XLs (2)
Avengers (2)
Spirit (1)

11 discs, 6 molds. And I could take the Demon out on 90% of the days I play.

Anyway, I think disc minimalism is overhyped anyways. On tournament days, I'll throw a lot of different things in the bag, depending on the course and conditions. The important thing to know is what each disc in your bag can and cannot do. My biggest problem is deciding whether to power up on a putter or power down on a midrange.

 

[Parks]

Well, Blake made it clear that minimalism isn't the be all end all of disc golf.

Some Pro's successfully carry and throw a ton of different molds and discs.

What he did make clear is that you will get better faster by learning to do everything with a smaller disc collection that you are familiar with.

That, I very much agree with, as I have improved my game a ton since minimizing my molds and intelligently designing my bag.

 

[JR]

Well, Blake made it clear that minimalism isn't the be all end all of disc golf.

Some Pro's successfully carry and throw a ton of different molds and discs.

What he did make clear is that you will get better faster by learning to do everything with a smaller disc collection that you are familiar with.

That, I very much agree with, as I have improved my game a ton since minimizing my molds and intelligently designing my bag.

Dave Feldberg is a good example of what you can do with your spare time once you've learned to throw well. You can pick up new molds and get to know them. Then you can get extra tweaked last percent advantages by picking the disc that suits the situation best. Like Hmm.. I think I'll pick a yellow worn 170 premium disc for this shot because the white one from the same run is different in HSS and LSS from what I need even though it's equally broken in and the base palstic won't cut through the leaves... ;-)

Look at The European Open 2006 DVD and listen to the comments of the commentators about Dave when he seems he doesn't know which disc to choose and which line to take throwing over water.

 

[radsnowsurfer]

I've used the same 6 molds for 6 months now and I've definately benifitted from tuning the same disc different ways, I only throw one long distance driver now, and that's an avenger, I have two 175's that are 8 months old and are as flippy as archangels, two that are very overstable, one that's a Z and one that's a 175 Red X that just seems to be too overstable and a 164 blue one that's brand new for straight long drives. It's great that I never really have to think too much, this one driver serves just about all situations.

 

[schla104]

This past weekend I went to a tourney and played the worst I ever have at that course. It had to do with a combination of things and probably mostly mental fatigue due to lack of sleep, but as I finished my second round, I felt like I have become a worse disc golfer. I started to think about the times I played with fewer discs and played better. And that's when I realized what was wrong. I looked in my bag and realized I had a different mold for every type of shot I wanted. I was so focused on throwing discs flat that I forgot you could throw them differently. A lot of times especially on wooded courses you don't get the opportunity to throw a disc flat or if you do it is crushed by a tree. I feel that this really has hurt my game. I am seriously going to go out and start playing three disc rounds again until I find what I like.

 

[MikePD]

I also utilized the minimalist philosophy to improve my game. That and I realized that I was throwing too fast of drivers. I went from having a wraith, surge,pred, destroyer, valkyrie, starfire, etc.(lots of fast drivers) to throwing 2 teebirds, 2 eagles, 2 leopards, and 1 predator. The combination of those two philosophies got my distance with the teebird past where my distance with the wraith used to be. This site also taught me to use multiple copies of the same mold in different stages of wear, which also really helped me slim down my bag. Well basically thanks everyone! Blake your articles and exercises rock BTW keep them up!

 

[IowaDiscGolf]

I like this story, and I'm a big fan of minimalism with discs. The reason for me is two-fold:

A.) Fewer molds means fewer variables
B.) The same mold can do different things in various stages of wear

I now throw Teebirds in Star, KC Pro and Pro plastic for every shot from hyzer to flip-over-and-never-come-back. Teebirds and a small assortment of Rocs, and putters, and of course a couple long range bombs (pro Wraith and Destroyer.) It's really all I need to shoot my best golf.

it's the same with guitar gear, as far as I'm concerned. I was in a band for years with a guy who literally spent something like fifty to a hundred thousand on gear, gear and more gear. It got to the point where it dominated decision-making, songwriting, everything...all about the hardware and gear. I realized that for me, this just takes the focus of the song and the writing and performance of music, so it really made me a minimalist as a reaction to that. It's almost like the focus on gear is a way of avoiding having to actually focus on what matters.

Same with disc. A good player can have a great round with a putter in their hand and nothing else. It's all about the player.