• Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
    It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)

The Swing Thought and the Four Stages of Competence

prokebyt

Newbie
Joined
Aug 21, 2020
Messages
37
Hey all, I've been playing for about 8 months now and this board has been a gold mine of information, thanks! I can't contribute at a technical level, but something Nate Sexton said in a recent podcast reminded me of a learning methodology I used in poker that translates well to other disciplines. So, I thought I'd do a write up of the method from a disc golf perspective.

The Swing Thought and the Four Stages of Competence

In the second episode of Nate Sexton's podcast 'Running It', Nate answers a listener's question with a ferris wheel metaphor that provides insight on how Nate thinks about maintaining his putt.

Episode 2, 53:58, Listener: "What should I be focusing on when I'm staring at the basket during a putt?"

Nate Sexton said:
"Visual focus is one thing, but I also think focusing on having a 'swing thought' can be important and that changes all the time for me. Whatever little component to my putt needs to be worked on right now.

The way I've described it in the past is, say there are 40 things you could be thinking about while you putt, whether it's 'push with your back leg', 'make sure you explode with your wrist', 'make sure you follow through', whatever it is. I like to imagine all those things are riding in their own car on a ferris wheel going around and around and around. Whatever is at the bottom of the ferris wheel this week is like okay 'drive with that back leg' and I'll remember that, and I'll work on that, and that works for a week or two. Then I don't have to think about it for two years, because it's going around the ferris wheel while something else comes in, but it's impossible to stay perfect on everything all at the same time. So I would say for me, my experience with putting, it's a constantly rotating cast of different thoughts that I might be using to key in on say just this week all you have to remember is to 'look through the basket', 'putt to the far side of the basket' and when you're thinking about that, it's working.

It's just a big balancing act of convincing yourself that you're good at it and building confidence is something you have to put work into. So, for me it's like 'focusing visually' sure that can change, it depends how far you are away, it depends on a lot of things, but focusing mentally on what you're doing, don't be afraid to let that be different things and experiment with what is working for you in a given week or month."

In disc golf every swing action (backhand, forehand or putt) can be broken down into its discrete components. Nate identifies three components of his putting swing (drive with your back leg, explode with your wrist, follow through).

EMAacAq.png

As a professional, Nate uses the swing thought as a maintenance tool to hone a component of his swing that needs attention. For someone who is developing their swing, the swing thought is the third stage in the four stages of competence learning framework.

The four stages of competence can be used in any learning process to help categorize and develop the components that go into an action in an efficient manner.

The 4 stages of competence are:

1. Unconscious incompetence - You don't understand what you don't know. You don't have the knowledge or vocabulary to explain why someone can outperform you at a certain action. You do recognize there is a skill differential, but you don't know what needs to be developed to complete the action at the desired level.

2. Conscious incompetence - You have become aware of a component that is compulsory in performing the action. You may not be able to throw a disc 400 feet, but you know there is something called 'the power pocket' or 'bracing' that you need to learn.

3. Conscious competence / swing thought - You can now perform one of the components necessary to execute the action successfully. You have done enough work and repetitions to improve the component, but you still need to think about it to perform it effectively.

4. Unconscious competence - You don't have to think about a component to perform it. This component no longer requires the focus of a swing thought, this frees up room to focus on a different component during the swing thought.

Once a component reaches the stage of unconscious competence your goal becomes maintenance. Nate's ferris wheel metaphor is a description of how he identifies a component at stage 4 that may not be as sharp as it once was and temporarily brings it back down to stage 3, using the swing thought until he is satisfied that it is honed.

Focus on the bottleneck, focus on the why

One of the benefits of the swing thought and four stages concepts is they bring attention to the bottlenecks in your improvement journey. Of the four stages of competence, the swing thought/stage 3 usually becomes the bottleneck in the learning process for two reasons:
- Components will develop from stages 1 to 3 faster than from 3 to 4.
- No matter how many components you have at stage 3, you can only focus on one swing thought per throw.

Scientific studies have found the human brain cannot perform two tasks that require high level brain function at once. What we usually refer to as multitasking is really the brain switching focus rapidly between tasks. If your bracing, reachback and release angle are all at the swing thought stage, you only have the capacity to focus effectively on one during the swing.

Advancing components to the unconscious competence stage becomes an efficiency game of getting as many effective reps in as possible in the least amount of time. This reinforces what is already well understood on this forum, component drills (like on SW22's and loopghost's youtube channels) provide one of the shortest paths to tangibly improving your swing. A rough estimate of swing thought efficiency from various practice methods:

YVT9LkR.png


The conclusion is obvious, we all know practice makes perfect. The value is the logical journey through the framework to reach the obvious conclusion. Thinking through the logic makes our practice deliberate, it provides context on how each component fits into the overall swing, it helps us focus on the why instead of the what. Thinking of why you do something activates the limbic system in your brain. The limbic system is responsible for driving human behaviour, it's where your motivation comes from. Only focusing on what (practice) activates your neocortex, which controls your analysis and reasoning, no motivation to be found.

The swing thought and four stages concepts provide a model to think through your practice and improvement journey. It's a mental framework that helps you build the path towards deliberate, high efficiency practice.

Incorporating the swing thought into your game

For a player looking to fine tune their swing, take the time to analyze each component of each swing (bh/fh/putt) and periodically track them over time. When you reach the higher end of the skill spectrum you have consolidated many of the components and advanced most to the unconscious competence stage. Your ferris wheels will have fewer components, making tracking a simpler process. At this point, a structured and systematic approach will provide the most benefit.

For those closer to the beginning of their disc golf journey, you are going to have so many components that tracking in detail is not feasible. Personally, most of my components are at stages 2 and 3, with who knows how many at stage 1 unconscious incompetence, and they change constantly as I gather more knowledge. An example of how I use and think about swing thoughts for my game:

In a casual 18 hole round at my local par 3 I'll usually have 15-20 backhand swings on the front nine. During that time I am regularly changing my swing thought every 1-3 swings, sometimes circling back to a previous one. On the front nine I could have as many as 10 different swing thoughts for my backhand. When most components are at stage 2-3 it is very difficult to correctly diagnose errors, every bad shot could be for at least 20 different reasons. By regularly changing my swing thought, I can gather more information on what changes have the biggest impact on shot outcomes. Heading into the back nine I pick 1-2 swing thoughts that are having the biggest impact on my swing that day and use them for the final nine holes. Based on that I'll pick what drills I am going to work on in practice that week. I don't normally write anything down because it changes so quickly, but when I am in a never ending zoom call for work, writing down swing thoughts to work on the next field work session can help pass the time. One of my recent fieldwork lists:

1py2tOV.jpg

Everyone's ferris wheels and swing thoughts will be different. You can use your own vocabulary and you could go technical (focus on 90 degree frame for power pocket) or feel based (focus on the disc weight as it comes out of the power pocket). I recommend experimenting until you find something that works for you.
 
One of the things I think should be deemphasized is the tendency in some corners of disc golf to say purely "form" or "technique" over everything else that many do. It's important, yeah, but not the only component. I focused on putting the last few months after playing for years, and the one of the fundamental reasons I didn't get to the basket on a putt 50 feet out was not anything I was doing, rather I just didn't have the proper muscles developed to throw that far from that stance in that way.

It goes in line with the 4 stages, because they develop in tandem, the more you practice. But by saying form only, it give someone the idea that if they only had the proper form they could do that throw or a 500' backhand drive right this minute. Probably not imo, body-mind connection needs also a properly honed body.

Otherwise, I agree with OP. I like a lot of the comprehensive videos some do (Danny Lindahl) but one thing is they can give the player the impression they need to fix everything when a person can realistically focus on only one conscious action before they stumble and fall trying to fix everything. I like the bottleneck idea.
 
Last edited:
One of the things I think should be deemphasized is the tendency in some corners of disc golf to say purely "form" or "technique" over everything else that many do. It's important, yeah, but not the only component. I focused on putting the last few months after playing for years, and the one of the fundamental reasons I didn't get to the basket on a putt 50 feet out was not anything I was doing, rather I just didn't have the proper muscles developed to throw that far from that stance in that way.

It goes in line with the 4 stages, because they develop in tandem, the more you practice. But by saying form only, it give someone the idea that if they only had the proper form they could do that throw or a 500' backhand drive right this minute. Probably not imo, body-mind connection needs also a properly honed body.

That's a fantastic point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you say 'muscles developed' and 'properly honed body' is that basically the same as muscle memory? Or do you mean the actual strength of the muscle? There is some more on muscle memory I was thinking of including, but the post was getting long enough as is. Both actual muscles and muscle memory are vital parts.

There have been big strides in understanding muscle memory over the past 15 years. There is a fatty substance in our brains called myelin that we've known about for over 100 years, but only more recently have we started to understand its purpose. Myelin is fatty brain tissue commonly known as white matter that was originally thought to be passive tissue. Now scientists have learned that when we fire our nerves repeatedly (repetition of athletic motions), myelin will build up insulation around those nerves, providing insulation and making those signals stronger/faster. The more myelin you have built up, the less conscious thought you need to perform the action. I've got a few more ideas for strategy/mental game posts, but I think I'll work on something about myelin next.
 
Last edited:
I agree that actual muscle development should be discussed more too. And specifically which muscles add power and which add control. I know this board talks about it, but I haven't seen it elsewhere really. For me, putting them into simple proximal/distal categories helps me think about what role each muscle has in the swing and how it should be developed and how it should feel.

proximal-distal.jpg
 
^^^^
Also consider the role of the oblique sling and the role of fascia in movement and function and tensegrity. I believe there is a new change in the understanding of how the body produces movement and the old ideas of the origin and insertion of muscles are fading away or being updated.

Some of the discussion has recently started here https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138461
 
Fantastic post! So important for anyone trying to build or maintain their form. The times I've trotted out to the field without a specific focus have been disasters and usually result in frustration.

It would be interesting to get a repository of swing thoughts like we have a repository of helpful images.

One last thing- I think it's important to find other athletic moves that are already part of your muscle memory that you can translate to disc golf. For example, I've had the hardest time learning the x step or hop and how to stride down the tee pad in general. Sunday night I was playing basketball, guarding someone on the perimeter. I realized as I was moving laterally trying to stay in front of him that I was basically doing an effortless brinster hop without even thinking about it. I've tried so hard to figure out that hop and it's always felt so awkward...yet there I was, hopping laterally in perfect balance without even thinking about it.
 
Again, a little long but a good discussion on finding swing thoughts that help you to accomplish a specific task easily and repeatedly.

 
I haven't heard it articulated as well as the ferris wheel metaphor but have come to a similar conclusion. When I tried to have more than one "swing thought" it's usually a disaster.

I'm guessing the best in the world do not have a swing thought, at least when they're performing at a high level.
 
I haven't heard it articulated as well as the ferris wheel metaphor but have come to a similar conclusion. When I tried to have more than one "swing thought" it's usually a disaster.

I'm guessing the best in the world do not have a swing thought, at least when they're performing at a high level.

Yep. Multiple swing thoughts seem impossible to me. I find I play/throw best when my thoughts are focused on things that imply everything before it going well. Kind of hard to explain I suppose.

Ideally, my thoughts are pretty primitive and mostly have to do with keeping the move dynamic with a simple goal of moving the disc. I can absolutely somehow, through some miraculous feat of insanity, forget that I am throwing a disc and start breaking everything apart again like I first did beginning to learn.

To me it feels like I catch myself pretending my conscious mind, all these words and concepts, is more capable or intelligent than my instinctual existence as a living human. You can literally tell children about 'swinging your arm with your body, now do it harder' and they will do the things we are all dissecting here, naturally lol. They don't ask how, or what it should look like, and to me that is a pretty fundamental thing to keep handy in my mind.
 
Last edited:
I'm guessing the best in the world do not have a swing thought, at least when they're performing at a high level.


I suspect most have a reswing thought.

When they go on tilt, or things just aren't working for whatever reason, the one thought in their head that can settle things and bring it back into play.

Mine is "plant then swing" It's normally enough to put me back on the right track
 
I suspect most have a reswing thought.

When they go on tilt, or things just aren't working for whatever reason, the one thought in their head that can settle things and bring it back into play.

Mine is "plant then swing" It's normally enough to put me back on the right track

You're probably right.

When bad habits creep in, my "re-swing" thought is about driving my hip forward down the line of my throw.

When my swing and putt are feeling good, my focus is 100% on my target the entire throw. I expect that's the case for guys at the top level. It's difficult to string full rounds together like that... and I'm guessing that's what separates the pros. I have strings of up to ~9 holes that are near impeccable, but maintaining that focus and mindfulness is not easy.

My last tournament I played 2 rounds in a day. The first round was +7 and the second was -7. That is certainly a dramatic example, but the difference between a sub 900 rated round and a 1000+ rated round felt alarmingly subtle. Not in score (obviously) but in my mindset and swing. I'm realizing getting into that state isn't just about confidence, it's about preparing your body and swing enough before hand that you have the luxury of focusing on your target 100% of the time.

Simon once said "learn to throw, then learn to golf," and I really to agree with that. I've realized that for years I was never playing golf. I was just throwing a disc towards a basket.
 
You shouldn't need a swing thought. Your focus should be on a target, and then committing to your throw.

If you're satisfied with your form and you're only looking to compete, then ideally there is no swing thought…. but I think it's an important tool everyone uses at some point.

What does "committing to your throw" mean to you? Sounds like a swing thought.
 
"You cannot hit a golf ball consistently well if you think about the mechanics of your swing as you play.

The time to worry about swing mechanics must be limited, and the place to worry about them is the practice tee and only the practice tee. If you step onto the course with the intention of shooting your best possible score, you cannot think about mechanics.

The best swing thought is no swing thought,"

Quotes taken from Golf is Not a Game of Perfect
 
https://www.todaysgolfer.co.uk/news...-best-golfers-think-about-during-their-swing/

A couple of years ago, a survey of 25 PGA Tour players revealed that 18 of them don't think about anything at all during their golf swing.

Rickie Fowler
"I rarely think about mechanics. For me, golf is about feel and swinging free, like you couldn't care less about your results. I know that might be hard to accept, especially if you've been struggling to hit the ball straight or have contact issues, but when you're able to build trust in what you're doing and simply let it go, power creeps into your swing as if by magic."

Graeme McDowell
"You turn off your mind. You feel your golf swing without really thinking about it. It's almost like you you don't think at all. Maybe you have one little thought, and everything else becomes automatic."

Raymond Floyd
"I forgot everything I ever learned and went out and played the game."
 
If you're satisfied with your form and you're only looking to compete, then ideally there is no swing thought…. but I think it's an important tool everyone uses at some point.

What does "committing to your throw" mean to you? Sounds like a swing thought.

Committing to your throw is about being confident in executing your throw, allowing muscle memory to take over.
 
Last edited:
"You cannot hit a golf ball consistently well if you think about the mechanics of your swing as you play.

The time to worry about swing mechanics must be limited, and the place to worry about them is the practice tee and only the practice tee. If you step onto the course with the intention of shooting your best possible score, you cannot think about mechanics.

The best swing thought is no swing thought,"

Quotes taken from Golf is Not a Game of Perfect

This is gold!
 
Top