The Swing Thought and the Four Stages of Competence

[RowingBoats]

Committing to your throw is about being confident in executing your throw, allowing muscle memory to take over.

"Get out of the way, let it flow." Is an awesome swing thought, for sure

I don't think it is possible to disable one's narrative about sensory input and desires 100%. We can corral it, alter the parameters, but when people say they are literally not having a thought, I don't believe that is what they actually mean or experience.

I'm not at all arguing with you either, I find this all fascinating in every aspect of life, not just disc golf.

 

[scooby snack]

I think always picking a target for every single throw can help shift your focus from your swing, to where you want your disc to go.

You don't need perfect form to trust in your swing. You just need to seperate working on form, from playing dg.

Your form will continue to improve if you keep working on it, and you'll start seeing the results on the course when you're playing if you can seperate when to work on your swing, and when to trust yourself.

 

[drk_evns]

Committing to your throw is about being confident in executing your throw, allowing muscle memory to take over.

Yes I agree this is the case in competition, but how do you build/adjust muscle memory in the first place?

 

[Nick Pacific]

I think always picking a target for every single throw can help shift your focus from your swing, to where you want your disc to go.

You don't need perfect form to trust in your swing. You just need to seperate working on form, from playing dg.

Your form will continue to improve if you keep working on it, and you'll start seeing the results on the course when you're playing if you can seperate when to work on your swing, and when to trust yourself.

Bubba Watson
"The key is that you have to think about the shot, and when I say that, I mean you have to think about your target, not your swing. You don't want your mind to create the bad shot. You want to think about your target, and that's all you want to think about. You have to think about the target and not focus on anything else. "

Luke Donald
"I might have one swing thought during my practice swing, but once I get over the ball, I'm focusing on my target and the shot I'm trying to hit. You'd hope to have very little swing thoughts. You're just kind of going on instinct – and that's when you're playing the best. "

 

[Nick Pacific]

Yes I agree this is the case in competition, but how do you build/adjust muscle memory in the first place?

The practice phase. There are two phases, the practice phase and the playing phase. During the practice phase, you focus on mechanics and swing thoughts and to build new grooves and mechanics in your swing. You hope to build into your involuntarily swing as much "correct" mechanics as possible.

Once your in the playing phase, all swing thoughts and mechanical thoughts go buy bye. You work off of whatever is already built into your swing that day. You cannot fix any problems in your swing during a scored round anyways, you have to accept and trust that your swing will deliver your best possible score on that day.

Which brings up a very good point. You have to accept your swing mechanics and trust it once it's go time.

 

[drk_evns]

The practice phase. There are two phases, the practice phase and the playing phase. During the practice phase, you focus on mechanics and swing thoughts and to build new grooves and mechanics in your swing. You hope to build into your involuntarily swing as much "correct" mechanics as possible.

Once your in the playing phase, all swing thoughts and mechanical thoughts go buy bye. You work off of whatever is already built into your swing that day. You cannot fix any problems in your swing during a scored round anyways, you have to accept and trust that your swing will deliver your best possible score on that day.

Which brings up a very good point. You have to accept your swing mechanics and trust it once it's go time.

If you go back, you'll see that's what I was saying as well.

I think maybe Scooby snack saw one of my later posts talking about swing thoughts and didn't see my original point which was; no swing thought for competition.

 

[scooby snack]

Yes I agree this is the case in competition, but how do you build/adjust muscle memory in the first place?

That's a great question. I think Nick Pacific did an excellent job answering it so I will just add that initially it seems counter intuitive to go to a field and work on your form, and then to trust your form when playing.

It may seem like you're taking 2 steps forward, 1 step back, but if you're thinking your way through your swing, your thoughts will interfere with muscle memory.

Read Nick Pacific's answer to this question again. There are two phases, practice and play. Learning to trust your swing during the playing phase can throw people for a loop, but it's key to letting muscle memory take over, in the playing phase.

 

[drk_evns]

That's a great question. I think Nick Pacific did an excellent job answering it so I will just add that initially it seems counter intuitive to go to a field and work on your form, and then to trust your form when playing.

It may seem like you're taking 2 steps forward, 1 step back, but if you're thinking your way through your swing, your thoughts will interfere with muscle memory.

Read Nick Pacific's answer to this question again. There are two phases, practice and play. Learning to trust your swing during the playing phase can throw people for a loop, but it's key to letting muscle memory take over, in the playing phase.

Again, we're saying the same thing. If you go back to the beginning it makes more sense.

 

[scooby snack]

Again, we're saying the same thing. If you go back to the beginning it makes more sense.

I've been saying no swing thought, focus on a target, and commit.

What you're saying is a swing thought is ok if limited to one, and only elite players don't have swing thoughts, unless they aren't performing well.

I haven't heard it articulated as well as the ferris wheel metaphor but have come to a similar conclusion. When I tried to have more than one "swing thought" it's usually a disaster.

I'm guessing the best in the world do not have a swing thought, at least when they're performing at a high level.

 

[drk_evns]

You're probably right.

When bad habits creep in, my "re-swing" thought is about driving my hip forward down the line of my throw.

When my swing and putt are feeling good, my focus is 100% on my target the entire throw. I expect that's the case for guys at the top level. It's difficult to string full rounds together like that... and I'm guessing that's what separates the pros. I have strings of up to ~9 holes that are near impeccable, but maintaining that focus and mindfulness is not easy.

My last tournament I played 2 rounds in a day. The first round was +7 and the second was -7. That is certainly a dramatic example, but the difference between a sub 900 rated round and a 1000+ rated round felt alarmingly subtle. Not in score (obviously) but in my mindset and swing. I'm realizing getting into that state isn't just about confidence, it's about preparing your body and swing enough before hand that you have the luxury of focusing on your target 100% of the time.

Simon once said "learn to throw, then learn to golf," and I really to agree with that. I've realized that for years I was never playing golf. I was just throwing a disc towards a basket.

No, go read my responses on page 2. What I've intended to say (and I think I have) is that the Ferris wheel metaphor works really well for a swing thought, but you don't want a swing thought when you're competing (aka - not practicing).

On top of that, I also think it's difficult to focus for long periods of time. The focus itself ALSO takes practice. Clearing your mind of the swing is not easy.

I think we agree more than not…

 

[scooby snack]

No, go read my responses on page 2. What I've intended to say (and I think I have) is that the Ferris wheel metaphor works really well for a swing thought, but you don't want a swing thought when you're competing (aka - not practicing).

On top of that, I also think it's difficult to focus for long periods of time. The focus itself ALSO takes practice. Clearing your mind of the swing is not easy.

I think we agree more than not…

I think this is spot on.

As for the focus, it does take practice. Some players imagine a window in the sky, knowing if they hit it they will land in a good spot. But a target to focus on, can also be a flagpole, tree, church steeple, or any number of things.

You don't need to focus for long periods at a time, only when it's your shot. Between shots focusing on any part of your game isn't necessary, and can actually be exhausting.
The book Nick P. referenced talks about this.

The author also speaks toward developing a pre-shot routine, to help internalize switching your focus on and off as needed.

 

[drk_evns]

I think this is spot on.

As for the focus, it does take practice. Some players imagine a window in the sky, knowing if they hit it they will land in a good spot. But a target to focus on, can also be a flagpole, tree, church steeple, or any number of things.

You don't need to focus for long periods at a time, only when it's your shot. Between shots focusing on any part of your game isn't necessary, and can actually be exhausting.
The book Nick P. referenced talks about this.

The author also speaks toward developing a pre-shot routine, to help internalize switching your focus on and off as needed.

Yeah, golf is not a game of perfect is a good read. One thing I do try to do is maintain a "quiet eye" during my round. I stay calm, mindful, and relaxed… try to avoid anxious thoughts about shots I haven't walked up to yet, but also be strategic and ready to respond to the situation in the moment. It's an important balance that's personal to everyone and requires practice like anything else.

 

[Nick Pacific]

I think this is spot on.

As for the focus, it does take practice. Some players imagine a window in the sky, knowing if they hit it they will land in a good spot. But a target to focus on, can also be a flagpole, tree, church steeple, or any number of things.

You don't need to focus for long periods at a time, only when it's your shot. Between shots focusing on any part of your game isn't necessary, and can actually be exhausting.
The book Nick P. referenced talks about this.

The author also speaks toward developing a pre-shot routine, to help internalize switching your focus on and off as needed.

It took me awhile to figure out exactly why focusing on a target just before and during your swing was so important. I was always the belief that I can hit targets involuntarily and that I don't need to even think about it. But that was never the point. One of the main reasons, perhaps the most important one, to focus on your target isn't just because it helps you hit it. Focusing on your target distracts you away from thinking about swing thoughts and mechanics. Even though you don't need to think about your target to hit it, you should anyways because it's a surefire way to get your mind away from mechanical thoughts.

This is VERY helpful with putting too. I used to pride myself on the idea that I didn't even have to aim, that I could close my eyes and hit the pole. But it's not just about aim.....when you aim for a target, you're not thinking about swing thoughts or mechanics, and your natural athletic motion will take over because your mind is focused on something else - the target.

Now I always think of the pole and hitting it when I'm putting, and let my body swing free and aggressive towards when putting. Works like a charm, I don't have any distracting mechanical thoughts about this or that when I'm putting.

 

[scooby snack]

It took me awhile to figure out exactly why focusing on a target just before and during your swing was so important. I was always the belief that I can hit targets involuntarily and that I don't need to even think about it. But that was never the point. One of the main reasons, perhaps the most important one, to focus on your target isn't just because it helps you hit it. Focusing on your target distracts you away from thinking about swing thoughts and mechanics. Even though you don't need to think about your target to hit it, you should anyways because it's a surefire way to get your mind away from mechanical thoughts.

This is VERY helpful with putting too. I used to pride myself on the idea that I didn't even have to aim, that I could close my eyes and hit the pole. But it's not just about aim.....when you aim for a target, you're not thinking about swing thoughts or mechanics, and your natural athletic motion will take over because your mind is focused on something else - the target.

Now I always think of the pole and hitting it when I'm putting, and let my body swing free and aggressive towards when putting. Works like a charm, I don't have any distracting mechanical thoughts about this or that when I'm putting.

That's funny you say this because I went through the same process.

I used to think I could hit my lines without a specific target. But my accuracy has increased since focusing on a target, and it's a great mechanism to avoid thinking about swing mechanics, like you mentioned.

If something in my swing feels off during a round, I sort it out later in a practice session.

 

[RFrance]

Using drills in your practice swing. It looks like he is incorporating a free floating arm type drill and definitely one leg drill in his practice swing.