We plant more aggressively, though. We tear up the ground as much as golfers (with our feet).
Theoretical Question: DG on golf course
- Thread starter Peterb
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We plant more aggressively, though. We tear up the ground as much as golfers (with our feet).
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Yup I know about sunrise. And Lava Creek, Brooktrails, Los Osos, Verdugo, Goat Hill, etc. While it's awesome that there's 18 holes and a bunch of holes in the rough, that's not going to be the case where I'm working. It's much smaller. What is interesting is that sunrise is really close to shady but because shady is well, um, shady (ok so it's really crowded), sunrise is seeing really high usage. I wouldn't be surprised if sunrise raises its prices given its usage so far so that it isn't completely overrun by dg and forces higher paying golfers off the course. However, it does open up the exciting possibility of a low maintenance, lower cost disc golf only park in an urban area at some point.
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eventually they'll need to install tees. Probably the turf kind which have gained popularity in europe.
We also wear out the grass around baskets, if there are enough of us.
An alternative I've seen work well is painted lines on flat sections of cart paths. It's a perfectly good surface for us and keeps a teeing area from getting worn down and rutted out.
doesn't really matter what the theoretical or philosophical argument would be for disc golfers paying the same as the golfers.
the market will set the price. you can make it 30 all day but if nobody shows up you'll have to lower it until you find the right balance.
the market will set the price. you can make it 30 all day but if nobody shows up you'll have to lower it until you find the right balance.
shanker156
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It all just boils down to simple supply and demand. Here in the Phoenix area we have many free courses and a few pay to play that are on golf courses. One of the golf courses came to us to design a course because they tend to be very slow during the Summer months and they wanted a little extra income. They are only open for DG during the hot Summer months and charge $5 to play and another $5 for a cart. They do not need us during the winter because they fill up with golfers who are willing to pay more.
The other pay to play course we begged the owner to put in disc golf and even raised money for the baskets because the piece of land just called out for disc golf. It is a run down, crummy executive 9 golf course with no carts because you do not need them. They charge us $6-10 depending on the time of year, but they only charge golfers $15. It is such a great disc golf course that the owner has more dgers than golfers, which is why the price keeps going up for us. It started at $5 all time and people have whined every time it has increased...but we still show up for now. If they raise it to $30, I'll go play one of the many free courses in the area.
The other pay to play course we begged the owner to put in disc golf and even raised money for the baskets because the piece of land just called out for disc golf. It is a run down, crummy executive 9 golf course with no carts because you do not need them. They charge us $6-10 depending on the time of year, but they only charge golfers $15. It is such a great disc golf course that the owner has more dgers than golfers, which is why the price keeps going up for us. It started at $5 all time and people have whined every time it has increased...but we still show up for now. If they raise it to $30, I'll go play one of the many free courses in the area.
beereakfast
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A little off the subject, but that's not exactly true. There is this place. I've known about it for a couple of years but never played it. You probably need to make a few phone calls to get permission, and have to be on good behavior. I used to go to band camp there like 25 years ago.
http://www.ymcasf.org/campjonesgulch/facilities/activity_areas#disk golf
BionicRib
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A round of disc golf does not take the same time to play as a round of golf even on a championship disc golf course. If you can turn more disc golfers in a day than golfers then a lower rate can be justified. The key is to find that magic number that won't turn disc golfers away.
BionicRib
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The best bet IMO would be to find a golf course that is inexpensive (30 to 50 greens fees) and route a disc golf course within it that doesn't interfere with the golf course and vice versa in order to keep the pace of play at a maximum for both games...
It could be done, but good luck pitching that idea. I would pay 20 to 30 though for a great course and a cart, but I'm sure most disc golfers wouldn't.
It could be done, but good luck pitching that idea. I would pay 20 to 30 though for a great course and a cart, but I'm sure most disc golfers wouldn't.
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In Price Theory, the product they are selling – a tee time – is a wasting asset. After the time passes, it becomes unsellable.
The costs they have are, in large part, fixed. The staff needs to be paid and grass needs to be fed and mowed whether anybody plays or not.
So, it is in the best interest of the course to collect whatever they can at the moment the tee time is about to slip into the past.
(Note that for this theory it doesn't matter whether tee times are formally defined as every X minutes, or whether they are reserved in advance or just sold as walk-ups who get in line at the first tee.)
Almost all golf courses sell tee times at a discount – different times of the day or week or to very old or very young golfers. So, they are familiar with the idea of collecting less to collect something.
As some have pointed out, the price they can collect from a disc golfer may be less than what they can collect from a golfer, but it's more than they would collect if no golfer ever bought the tee time.
The limiting factor is getting people through the first tee. Disc golfers can tee off about five minutes after the group in front, where golfers need to wait about ten minutes. So, the inventory of tee times is doubled for disc golfers.
It would seem that the optimal strategy would be to tell disc golfers they have to step aside until there are no golfers waiting. However, then you would be changing the product from "the soonest" tee time (or a "reserved" tee time) to only a chance of getting to play before dark. No one would buy that. Disc golfers need to be able to reserve (or walk up for) tee times the same way as golfers. Just as the golfer who gets a Senior discount can get in line with the full price golfers.
If the course has analyzed the variable costs of golfers, they might be able to calculate that the extra expense of a disc golfer is less than the extra expense of a golfer. Disc golfers don't hurt the greens or the special grass on the golf tees or dig their shoes into the sand traps. This could also be used as justification for charging disc golfers less, to keep the net variable profits the same between the two types of customers.
In any case, the admission fee is only part of the revenue. Disc golfers will also pay for food, beverages, new equipment, and cart use.
The costs they have are, in large part, fixed. The staff needs to be paid and grass needs to be fed and mowed whether anybody plays or not.
So, it is in the best interest of the course to collect whatever they can at the moment the tee time is about to slip into the past.
(Note that for this theory it doesn't matter whether tee times are formally defined as every X minutes, or whether they are reserved in advance or just sold as walk-ups who get in line at the first tee.)
Almost all golf courses sell tee times at a discount – different times of the day or week or to very old or very young golfers. So, they are familiar with the idea of collecting less to collect something.
As some have pointed out, the price they can collect from a disc golfer may be less than what they can collect from a golfer, but it's more than they would collect if no golfer ever bought the tee time.
The limiting factor is getting people through the first tee. Disc golfers can tee off about five minutes after the group in front, where golfers need to wait about ten minutes. So, the inventory of tee times is doubled for disc golfers.
It would seem that the optimal strategy would be to tell disc golfers they have to step aside until there are no golfers waiting. However, then you would be changing the product from "the soonest" tee time (or a "reserved" tee time) to only a chance of getting to play before dark. No one would buy that. Disc golfers need to be able to reserve (or walk up for) tee times the same way as golfers. Just as the golfer who gets a Senior discount can get in line with the full price golfers.
If the course has analyzed the variable costs of golfers, they might be able to calculate that the extra expense of a disc golfer is less than the extra expense of a golfer. Disc golfers don't hurt the greens or the special grass on the golf tees or dig their shoes into the sand traps. This could also be used as justification for charging disc golfers less, to keep the net variable profits the same between the two types of customers.
In any case, the admission fee is only part of the revenue. Disc golfers will also pay for food, beverages, new equipment, and cart use.
SaltyDawg
Newbie
Peter,
I ran for a stint trying to sell DG setups to smaller, less busy ball golf courses in Washington State. My motivation was to spread DG and get more courses. It seemed like a good use of an already established space and in my thinking, would generate additional revenue for courses during slow days, winter months, etc. I had first encountered a course with a parallel DG setup near Oceanside CA. We were allowed to play the same fairways, and bunkers and greens were OB, and the baskets were placed out of the way near the greens. We were charged considerably less to play and in my encounters with traditional golfers on the course, I was met with no animosity. Although I had a pretty rock solid sales pitch and data to back up my idea, I was met with no love. The course administrators all felt that disc golfers would bring the wrong image to the course. They felt that groups of disc golfers would distract, impede or disrupt the flow of the games of the ball golfers. Even my pleading that disc golf plays at a faster rate and would allow faster cycling through the course, they could not be persuaded. They were concerned that discs would damage the greens, foliage, trees and facilities. I offered free installation and design, and all the course would have to pay was the cost of tee pads and baskets at wholesale prices, and still, they would not budge. At first I was discouraged and hurt because of the time and thought I had invested, but looking back I now realize that although financially and ecologically it makes sense to share a space, good disc golf courses are not the same as ball golf courses. We as disc golfers NEED roughage, canyons, thick trees, grassy meadows. We want primal. We want dirty. We want boulders and mud and although it would be awesome to have a hot college co-ed driving a beer cart around to our beck and call, we don't want snobby dicks heckling in our run-up. I know this is a convoluted answer to your question, so simply.....Most wont. There are a few oddities out there in the world that I have come across, but for the most part, ball golf and disc golf can't cohabitate, for any cost. In some kind of utopia we could all get along and sing "the age of Aquarius" and be golf brothers, but....I guess my point is, I think Disc Golf should evolve as its own sport, free from the shadows of ball golf. blah blah blah blah.
I ran for a stint trying to sell DG setups to smaller, less busy ball golf courses in Washington State. My motivation was to spread DG and get more courses. It seemed like a good use of an already established space and in my thinking, would generate additional revenue for courses during slow days, winter months, etc. I had first encountered a course with a parallel DG setup near Oceanside CA. We were allowed to play the same fairways, and bunkers and greens were OB, and the baskets were placed out of the way near the greens. We were charged considerably less to play and in my encounters with traditional golfers on the course, I was met with no animosity. Although I had a pretty rock solid sales pitch and data to back up my idea, I was met with no love. The course administrators all felt that disc golfers would bring the wrong image to the course. They felt that groups of disc golfers would distract, impede or disrupt the flow of the games of the ball golfers. Even my pleading that disc golf plays at a faster rate and would allow faster cycling through the course, they could not be persuaded. They were concerned that discs would damage the greens, foliage, trees and facilities. I offered free installation and design, and all the course would have to pay was the cost of tee pads and baskets at wholesale prices, and still, they would not budge. At first I was discouraged and hurt because of the time and thought I had invested, but looking back I now realize that although financially and ecologically it makes sense to share a space, good disc golf courses are not the same as ball golf courses. We as disc golfers NEED roughage, canyons, thick trees, grassy meadows. We want primal. We want dirty. We want boulders and mud and although it would be awesome to have a hot college co-ed driving a beer cart around to our beck and call, we don't want snobby dicks heckling in our run-up. I know this is a convoluted answer to your question, so simply.....Most wont. There are a few oddities out there in the world that I have come across, but for the most part, ball golf and disc golf can't cohabitate, for any cost. In some kind of utopia we could all get along and sing "the age of Aquarius" and be golf brothers, but....I guess my point is, I think Disc Golf should evolve as its own sport, free from the shadows of ball golf. blah blah blah blah.
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Thanks Steve for your well thought out response. I think the course folks in this instance get this and are willing to try something akin to this. They seemed enthusiastic, flexible, and most importantly actually respect the sport of disc golf because of its similarity.
We have a unique set of circumstances here: no course within 45 minutes, high population density with plenty of existing players, a massive drought which is going to or already making watering exceedingly expensive, and a pitch and putt 9 holer with lots of elevation changes and trees to give any disc golfer a challenge.
I think we'll keep moving forward but will note the price theory stuff which I've already explained to them and they get. We're planning a very small tournament to see how the design plays and get a better feel and will take it from there...
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I respect your opinion but disagree with some as well. There is definitely a space in this sport for a more manicured experience and I believe that golfers will (and already are) coming around to the concept of disc golf.
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