Thoughts on standardizing baskets for tournaments?

[illuminatefreak]

Wow... this is quite a discussion brewing here. Wasn't expecting this much chatter. Pretty solid thoughts all around.

I think my major thought was chains. Some of them are single. Some of them are double. Then I saw the new Mach X basket by DGA advertised as "redefining the disc golf basket" (not that every new basket doesn't make claims like that) while watching the Vibram Open.

So, some baskets supposedly "catch better" than others. At some point, I would think that the differences will become significant.

All this cost stuff is definitely a compelling reason that this hasn't, isn't and probably won't happen. I don't think that means it's not a good idea... just not feasible, needed, cost effective, etc.

It was just a thought that popped in my head. I wasn't even suggesting it should happen... was just curious what people who might actually be more on the inside of this stuff might think. Admittedly, my involvement in the sport is relatively new. I haven't played in any tournament besides one local fundraiser, but I'm thoroughly enjoying watching the different major tournaments and thought this might be a fun discussion.

 

[sillybizz]

Yes and the wind is different in the morning versus the afternoon so everybody has to play the same hole at the time - 150 players all throwing drives simultaneously, gonna need a bigger tee pad.

 

[cjman]

The pdga and pro tour have trailers that travel to each event on their tours. It would be very very easy to have a set or 2 of baskets that travels on each tour. The Pro tour is pushing for minimal courses used at each event.

To alleviate issues with brand loyalty, the tour could switch baskets each year, or every 2 years. The price will not be great. Manufacturers would sell at cost, or donate, as they will be seen in live coverage and videos throughout the year.

Top level baskets are very different. Go to a NT and listen to the players. They're talked constantly.

 

[Steve West]

Let's cut to the chase. Every complaint everyone has ever had about baskets, and every goal for improving baskets, can be solved by using this:

 

[Halcón]

^ And even with that you have nubs, no nubs, depth...etc.

 

[INTP]

If it affects everyone equally, it affects no one.

 

[scarpfish]

The only way targets will be standardized is if a manufacturer steps up and funds the entire tour (NTs/Majors or DGPT/DGWT type series), either by permanently refitting the courses involved or providing enough portables to temporarily convert courses that have other targets.

And I'm going to tell you why that will never happen. A number of the existing NT's are the flagship event for a particular manufacturer. With Innova it's the USDGC (actually a major, but same principle), Discraft has the Memorial, the Trilogy companies have the GBO which already changed most if not all of their baskets to Veterans this year. This week, it's Vibrams turn.

Most of these companies already have their own targets. Do you really think that the PDGA would be willing to piss off all but one of these parties, just to have an official basket that one manufacturer paid the most money for? Especially when these folks will have to be the ones footing the costs for the changes.

The #growthesport #athleteworshipper #standardizeeverything crowd on here, who think this is a good idea seem to have the cart before the horse again. They have a wrongheaded idea of what the PDGA is, what it is not, and what the power relationship is between it and it's members, clubs and manufacturers really is.

I can assure you the PDGA needs those entities more than they need it. I can also assure you the PDGA bigwigs understand that, which is why this idea has never been past the modest suggestion stage, and may never be.

 

[dashiellx]

Isn't the World Tour using standard baskets? I thought the two events so far both used Disc Golf Park equipment.

 

[DavidSauls]

Wow... this is quite a discussion brewing here. Wasn't expecting this much chatter. Pretty solid thoughts all around.

I think my major thought was chains. Some of them are single. Some of them are double. Then I saw the new Mach X basket by DGA advertised as "redefining the disc golf basket" (not that every new basket doesn't make claims like that) while watching the Vibram Open.

So, some baskets supposedly "catch better" than others. At some point, I would think that the differences will become significant.

All this cost stuff is definitely a compelling reason that this hasn't, isn't and probably won't happen. I don't think that means it's not a good idea... just not feasible, needed, cost effective, etc.

It was just a thought that popped in my head. I wasn't even suggesting it should happen... was just curious what people who might actually be more on the inside of this stuff might think. Admittedly, my involvement in the sport is relatively new. I haven't played in any tournament besides one local fundraiser, but I'm thoroughly enjoying watching the different major tournaments and thought this might be a fun discussion.

I don't think single-chain baskets are being used at NTs or Majors. For that matter, it's been many years since I've played a tournament using single chains, at any tier.

It's not an unreasonable thought, to observe that we're a bit unusual in using different targets. At least, different-looking targets, though only slightly different-playing.

Were we to grow to the point that we were a significant spectator sport, with non-disc golfers watching, it might warrant a more unified system of targets for big events. Personally, I don't believe we'll ever get there. But if we do, there'll be spectator-targeted advertising dollars to pay for it. As long as we're a participation sport, even a rapidly-growing one, I don't see the need.

 

[ToddL]

Isn't the World Tour using standard baskets? I thought the two events so far both used Disc Golf Park equipment.

3 events so far.
And sure. Any person who decides to run a few tournaments can prescribe whatever he wants in his tournaments. The DGWT can use whatever Jussi says they can use. The DGPT can use whatever Steve says they can use. But I don't think the PDGA will come out with any demands for the NT or SuperTour or anything else.

 

[DavidSauls]

The pdga and pro tour have trailers that travel to each event on their tours. It would be very very easy to have a set or 2 of baskets that travels on each tour. The Pro tour is pushing for minimal courses used at each event.
.

"Easy" being in the eye of the beholder. Or perhaps the person not doing the work.

Hauling 18 or 36 baskets around isn't that easy, even assuming there is that much empty space in the trailer. Removing the regular baskets, storing them, and putting out new baskets, is a bit of a chore. I assume they'd be portables, unless collars are uniformly-fitting; some places you might not want to leave portables out unguarded, and they can be tough to balance and keep balanced on sloped greens. And though it may never happen again, I believe some majors have used as many as 12 courses.

Sure, it could be done, but it's still a big effort for very little benefit.

 

[DavidSauls]

To alleviate issues with brand loyalty, the tour could switch baskets each year, or every 2 years.
.

If players whine about the differences in catching quality from event to event, they'll whine about when their non-favorites are being used across the board for a year or two.

 

[ejvogie]

Basketball players like home court advantage because, among other reasons, they get a "friendlier bounce" from the rims.

Whether or not that's imagined I have no idea, but I'm pretty sure the NBA/NCAA has standardized the bejeezus out of their equipment.

TL/DR: Standardization does not mean identical

 

[cjman]

Here's what it will be.

The Pro tour becomes a thing. Companies want to be affiliated with its success. Said company will then provide baskets for all the events.

Company X, the official basket of the Pro Tour.

Sure, some players may still complain, but that is not why we run events.

 

[cjman]

"Easy" being in the eye of the beholder. Or perhaps the person not doing the work.

Hauling 18 or 36 baskets around isn't that easy, even assuming there is that much empty space in the trailer. Removing the regular baskets, storing them, and putting out new baskets, is a bit of a chore. I assume they'd be portables, unless collars are uniformly-fitting; some places you might not want to leave portables out unguarded, and they can be tough to balance and keep balanced on sloped greens. And though it may never happen again, I believe some majors have used as many as 12 courses.

Sure, it could be done, but it's still a big effort for very little benefit.

The amount of work required would be handled not only be by PDGA folk.

Being the endorsed basket of a tour would be the benefit.

 

[DanJon]

Here's what it will be.

The Pro tour becomes a thing. Companies want to be affiliated with its success. Said company will then provide baskets for all the events.

Company X, the official basket of the Pro Tour.

Sure, some players may still complain, but that is not why we run events.

You really think Innova, Dynamic, etc are going to have a bidding war to determine who gets the official basket rights?

And you can basically cancel Innova out of that equation due to their own competing tour.

Or were you thinking of some outside corporate interest?

 

[cjman]

There wouldn't be a true bidding war. Dodge would let companies know the tour would like an official basket, and if the tour is established as he intends it to be, a couple companies may be intereeted. Innova is not a sponsor of the pro tour currently, so sure, it would likely be prodigy or DGA.

Heinhold already did something similar with Ledgestone and DGA last year.

 

[DavidSauls]

The amount of work required would be handled not only be by PDGA folk.

Being the endorsed basket of a tour would be the benefit.

It doesn't matter who does the work. My point is that somebody would have to, and it's not an insignificant amount of work.

Nor do I see how "being the endorsed basket of a tour" would benefit the PDGA, or the TD, or his staff of volunteers, or the players. Or are you suggesting that the chosen manufacturer would send someone to do the work, or pay money to pay someone to do it?

 

[cjman]

It doesn't matter who does the work. My point is that somebody would have to, and it's not an insignificant amount of work.

Nor do I see how "being the endorsed basket of a tour" would benefit the PDGA, or the TD, or his staff of volunteers, or the players. Or are you suggesting that the chosen manufacturer would send someone to do the work, or pay money to pay someone to do it?

The pdga has nothing to do with this. The players like consistancy. The Pro tour director likes sponsors and consistancy, he talks about it throughout his pro tour interviews, and in the players meeting at vibram. Creating a brand with the pro tour has value to the tour. It would create a standard where the PDGA cannot, as others have discussed in this thread.

I know of a company and they have someone who would do it. He's on the pro tour, and already is vending at the events with a trailer from said company. This individual already has 18 baskets in the trailer and takes them around for temp courses throughout the summer.

Maple hill moved about 30 baskets prior to this event, with gator atvs, it's not bad.

 

[DavidSauls]

I was responding to the suggestion that the PDGA should do this, since they have a trailer going to each event.

If someone decides it's worth their while, I certainly have no objection. If a manufacturer decides being the Official Target of whichever tour is worth the cost, they ought to negotiate to do it. Including the PDGA Majors/NTs. I have no idea whether any of the manufacturers have tried.

The original and underlying assumption is that the tour itself, particularly the PDGA Majors/NTs, would be better with uniform targets. My opinion is that they improvement would be very slight, and not worth the effort.

But, of course, if the effort is undertaken and paid for by someone else, someone who expects to profit from the transaction by brand awareness and increased sales, that's different.