Traveler vs. Resident - Importance of Signs?

[markmcc]

I am a full-time RV'er, and as I travel between destinations I am always on the lookout for courses to play. While I enjoy playing new courses, I am often frustrated by a lack of tee signs, basket numbers, or even a course map. My first time through a course may find me spending more time looking for the next teepad/basket than actually playing the course.

I recognize that this is a "first-timer" problem, and locals aren't affected by it at all. Even coming back the next day myself it is seldom an issue, though I would still appreciate some distance information. I always print out the current hole information/maps from DGCR, but sometimes that info isn't current or correct.

When I rate a course, I generally take signage/navigation into account, and deduct 1/2 point if signs are absent or inaccurate. But again, I recognize that this is likely not even noticed by regular, local players.

So my question: How important do you feel accurate signs are on a DG course and to the DGCR rating? Is it important to you that your local course is "visitor friendly", or are satisfied with minimal/no signing as long as the local players get around ok?

 

[bradharris]

Navigation is definitely a one-time issue. But even on courses that I play frequently, I like to have the distance marked. On my home course I can largely ignore it because I already have a good feel for what I want to throw. But on courses that I'm familiar with, but don't play as often, it's nice to have the distance reminder every time I play.

 

[mashnut]

To some extent, I see both sides of this issue. I travel and play new courses a lot, so it's a big deal to me that I'm able to find my way around the course. Long blind holes with no tee signs and long walks between holes without next tee signs irritate me when I'm playing somewhere new and it takes a bunch of extra time to get through the course.

I've also been involved in doing course work. I see that for many locals tee signs are the last priority since all the locals who do the work know their way around and don't see the point of signage. To many of those players, the people who come in and play one round and leave aren't contributing anything to the course so there's no reason to cater to them.

The course I currently call my home course has no signage at all. It's very confusing to find all the holes since you have to backtrack, walk across other fairways, and figure out which basket to throw to on a few spots where holes cross each other. I've seen at least 5 groups of obviously new players show up, not know where to start or which is the long or short tee for the first hole, and just give up and go home. I catch them when I can and show them around the course. I went out and spray painted a rung on each basket to point to the next tee, and painted the tee pads with the hole number and long/short. Now many of the locals also don't really care about those new players coming out and crowding up their course, but I see those players as a great reason for the parks department to want to let us put in another course so I think it's definitely worth making courses more accessible to them.

 

[Stardoggy]

My usual course never had good tee signs, and it didn't seem to matter at all. Two weeks ago, they got brand new, larger printed signs, and I felt like it made the course seem MUCH more "mature". Maybe I'm just a superficial oaf, but for me it went from a 2.5 course to a 3.5 course, just because of the more professional feel of it.

 

[bradharris]

My usual course never had good tee signs, and it didn't seem to matter at all. Two weeks ago, they got brand new, larger printed signs, and I felt like it made the course seem MUCH more "mature". Maybe I'm just a superficial oaf, but for me it went from a 2.5 course to a 3.5 course, just because of the more professional feel of it.

That's another good point. While it may not be something reviewers consider directly in assigning a rating, good signage does help to give a course a more polished feel which can bring its rating up.

 

[roadtrip]

Navigation is key. Had a local at Patapsco tell me he thought the "next tee" signs on the course were pointless, I told him they were extremely helpful for me, since I was just passing through.
So frustrating when you hear that a course is something special, but you can't find your way around it. The worst - the proud walk to a parked drive, realizing at the end that you threw to the wrong basket.

Many courses have a map, posted to their dgcr page. That's one of the most helpful features on this site, for the traveling disc golfer.

 

[demon102]

A lot of places I play at are free so I dont care if they have signs and all that but when I pay to get in a park and the place is hell to find my way around I get irritated as the money spent to get in should be used to make the course better. For the free places Im just happy and grateful that there is even a course there. My main place to play now has awesome signage and a total professional feel to it with cement tees and cement sign poles and everything is just on point and its free.

Recently I went to a state park where the signs were old,faded and such and at times it was just hell finding my way around. Whats the point in paying if they dont manage their course?

 

[pfpro]

I agree with you:thmbup: Typically, I rate down a half point for bad/missing signage. If there is 1 vandalized sign, I don't, but if all the signs are broken/missing I do. I have a home course (which I rarely look at the signs - but they are nice ones), but I do try to hit new courses when I travel. Good signs (scaled to distance, direction to next tee) keep me from having to whip out the phone to look at a course map. Also, as mentioned above, when playing infrequently on a course where you know where the basket is, but don't have your exact disc or line memorized, it's nice to know distances to help gauge shot selection. Course Designers/Installers - please go the extra mile and make good signs!

 

[unknown2no1]

This is a huge pet peeve of mine because I find it incredibly frustrating when finding the next tee is a chore. I understand that nice tee signs and guide signs can get expensive but a little bit of paint on a basket along with a couple of hand painted plywood arrows to guide you to the next tee goes a long way and is really not very expensive or time consuming to install. I appreciate tee signs to show me where the basket is however they only show a basic view and anyways if I can't see the basket from the tee I'll go look for it anyway to check out lines and things of that nature but next tee signs I think should be mandatory when designing/installing a course.

 

[markmcc]

Many courses have a map, posted to their dgcr page. That's one of the most helpful features on this site, for the traveling disc golfer.

I agree and I'm always looking for the map. The last course I played had an old map for a previous 9-hole layout. There was a very large, faded map in a kiosk, so I took multiple pictures, photoshopped it together into a single map, and enhanced the hole numbers, disc paths, and distances on the map. Then I uploaded the entire thing up to the DGCR site for the next traveler that encounters the course.

Check it out: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course_files/480/56ac2660.jpg

I may not be in a position to help with local course maintenance as I am passing through, but I'll upload new maps when needed.

 

[MrFixIt]

Interesting. My "home" course has missing and/or inaccurate signage.
Even though it's easy to navigate (it's a short course, just follow the paths), I definitely need to hit the boss up for new updated signs.

 

[New013]

UNC's course has this problem in a really bad way. If you read the reviews a lot of people underrate the course because of how confusing it can be. The baskets have the wrong numbers on them because the course has been redesigned so many times and if you don't know the layout you will definitely miss holes because in a few places you finish a hole and see the hole after the next one but not the next pad.

It's coupled by the fact there's all kinds of paths going everywhere in parts and they had to move 18 recently so the 18 to 1 walk is really long and if you're not a student you have to park and start on 8 or 9.

I've offered multiple times to put up signs or put the correct numbers on the baskets and every time I'm told it'll be done just be patient. So I'm done with offering, it'll either get fixed or it won't. I don't know how it is in other places but here it seems like if you try to make things better for a course you're met with contempt.

 

[reposado]

It depends on the course. Some of the best courses just have a flow that makes navigation aids unnecessary. of course, those are usually the ones with great navigation aids.

anyways, yeah, for my "local" courses i know my way around. but when reviewing said courses, i consider how easy it would be for a first timer.

awesome signs are always a perk, but a simple piece of wood with an arrow pointing "next tee" if its not obvious does wonders for my appreciation of a course

 

[markmcc]

The last course I played had obviously reconfigured the course from a 9-hole to an 18-hole. What is left behind is a bunch of pads and baskets with no signs or numbers, several with correct signs/numbers, and a few with incorrect signs/numbers. In my mind, a can of spray paint and some stencils to mark the teepads, and some stick-on numbers to relabel the baskets would be a huge help. Total cost would be about $25. But this is in a city park, so there may be some bureaucracy to navigate...

 

[disc qualified]

deis hill has some of the best signs i have ever seen

 

[tampabay]

UNC's course has this problem in a really bad way. If you read the reviews a lot of people underrate the course because of how confusing it can be. The baskets have the wrong numbers on them because the course has been redesigned so many times and if you don't know the layout you will definitely miss holes because in a few places you finish a hole and see the hole after the next one but not the next pad.

It's coupled by the fact there's all kinds of paths going everywhere in parts and they had to move 18 recently so the 18 to 1 walk is really long and if you're not a student you have to park and start on 8 or 9.

I've offered multiple times to put up signs or put the correct numbers on the baskets and every time I'm told it'll be done just be patient. So I'm done with offering, it'll either get fixed or it won't. I don't know how it is in other places but here it seems like if you try to make things better for a course you're met with contempt.

This is such an interesting topic in rating courses. Because to some extent, you are rating the course as a whole, not just for locals. And I think locals would care less about the rating. But I also agree that it's not fair to completely trash a course for being unfriendly to visitors.

I really think the review should clearly state that.

But as far as the issues of signage, I think it's really important. Proponents of the sport need also to be proponents of signage. As much as it's hard to believe, some of those randoms throwing Lids at the wrong basket will end up being professionals.


Honestly, who are the ratings for? It really seems like ratings are much more for travelers than for locals. I'm not going to stop playing the closest course if I read that it only has 2 stars. I think that ratings are much more relevant to the visitors so I think it is important to state why you are giving the course that rating.

I also understand that ratings have other purposes than "ease of use" for the visitor. Part of a rating implies caliber. I think that signage should play a minor role in rating but I do think that it does in fact have a role. But I also think you should clearly state that in a review.

 

[Golden Tuna]

Navigation is a very important aspect of my reviews. I also enjoy traveling and playing different courses. Many times I do not have a lot of time to wander around looking for baskets and the next hole, so tee signs are a big help.

Locally, we have excellent tee signs at 1 course, good tee signs at 2 other courses and the rest of the courses have terrible tee signs. I think it is especially important for our courses to have accurate tee signs because we have at least 3 pin placements at our 18 holes courses and it is nice to know which placement they are calling "A,B & C" placements as well as distances.

Additionally, when we have tournament, out-of-towners come in to play and expect that us "locals" tell them which placement the basket is in and how long the hole is. Sometimes, even I (the local) do not know which placement it is in and how long that hole is, just that I throw my Orc (or whatever) on that hole/placement.

Tee signs are also important for beginners to see how the hole is laid out and where each placement is. Plus, graphic tee signs give opportunity to raise money for the course through sponsorships and an opportunity to advertise our disc golf club website, which generates interest in the sport and raises awareness that these courses were installed by hard working volunteers.

I literally cannot say enough good things about tee signs and the importance they play at most courses.

 

[MikeK]

Personally, I barely give any weight in my ratings to tee signs. But then, I'm a reviewer who doesn't believe it's fair to rate a course on just one round. I review a course mostly on the quality of its individual holes and how well the designer did.

Like it or not, signs are a huge percentage of a rating here at DGCReview. There are lots of reviews where a frustrated reviewer docks a course one or even a full two stars (discs) because they got lost. I don't think that's fair but it is reality.

A map is a wonderful tool. I wish that it was easier for newbies to locate the maps on the course pages here. I think instead of "Links/Files" tab, put a link on the course page directly to the map, like the link to the GPS coordinates. (I know it's one click instead of two...but it helps )

I don't think I've ever gotten lost on a new course when I had a good map.

 

[Hector Chain]

I completely understand why they aren't the first thing in. Concrete pads, fairway maintenance, and good baskets are priorities for the people playing most of the rounds.

But I lived in Omaha when Hummel was built and know how tough that is to navigate. I know a lot of reviewers have come through, played it, loved the design, but rightfully dinged it for navigation. No one enjoys walking around a course in search of the next tee, and the fact is that most of us aren't going to search out the local disc golf club's facebook page to post that we're coming through to play and would anyone please show us around please?

I definitely take it into account in my reviews. And top notch courses have no excuse for having poor navigation. There are great courses that don't need tee signs (Flip City; the score card has the distances, the baskets are usually visible, and navigation is simple). But Blue Ribbon Pines has laughable tee signs. Not worth the effort they put into them at all, and I really could have used good tee signs there.

 

[Stardoggy]

I think it's Adelaide in Fond du Lac nearby...but the easiest, most ingenious thing I've seen for navigation is painting one of the chains on the basket to point in the direction of the next tee. SO simple, but such a great idea.