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No one will be strategizing like that. There is no way to avoid the Hazards, so everyone will just be throwing as far as possible - like it's wide open - and hoping for luck.
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United States Disc Golf Championship 2022
- Thread starter NOStheBOSS
- Start date
No one will be strategizing like that. There is no way to avoid the Hazards, so everyone will just be throwing as far as possible - like it's wide open - and hoping for luck.
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In the limited course layout/design work that I have done in the past, I've found that there's a fine line between brilliant and stupid.
A skilled designer can cross that line into excellence, then there's this misguided stupidity.
Not trying to be personal, but this idiocy has all the hallmarks of his son's ham-handed approach.
I realized pretty quickly that I don't have the experience or talent for DG course design, so I always enlisted a lot of help. Somebody in Rock Hill needs to get some help, call a lifeline, whatever.
It's gonna be painful to watch on some holes, just like 2019…
A skilled designer can cross that line into excellence, then there's this misguided stupidity.
Not trying to be personal, but this idiocy has all the hallmarks of his son's ham-handed approach.
I realized pretty quickly that I don't have the experience or talent for DG course design, so I always enlisted a lot of help. Somebody in Rock Hill needs to get some help, call a lifeline, whatever.
It's gonna be painful to watch on some holes, just like 2019…
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Looks like disc golf valley (a game).
NOStheBOSS
Double Eagle Member
It looks like hole 4 from Oak Grove in Pasadena, you can be 20 ft away and not have a putt. I guess it prioritizes placement on the green, similar to ball golf. Disc golfers rarely have to think about green placement, just get it somewhere within 35 ft and make the putt
That's not really true. Plenty of holes that either have open sides and ones with blockers. But the more common scenario is needing to care about what's past the basket.
Winthrop...It's like putt putt but stupider.
Absolutely deliriously unhinged. I love it. Better every year.
TheOtherBill
* Ace Member *
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Looks like this Charlotte-area hole at Sugaw (much harder in spring/summer). There are certainly other courses, like Oak Grove mentioned already, that don't seem to get this kind of hate for making putting placement more challenging. The second shot here needed to be harder, and IMO I'm glad they didn't just make it longer or add more rope.
I love the idea of forcing players to think about green placement. From the limited view I have of the basket + my memory of that area of the course from walking it leads me to believe that they are close to the brilliant part of it.
Specifically, it seems like they believe that green placement should be more important (at least on that one hole). I'm not sure if they nailed it, but it seems like they did a fairly good job. The tee is to the right. The trees encourage someone to focus more on landing in-line with the basket than throwing a shot the correct distance but wide. The trees seem to be blocking more of the basket if you are left or right, while leaving the basket more open if you are long, and even more open if you are short.
If they are looking to make the hold require an even more precise green placement, they could move the basket back (or in Jerm's picture, left) about 18 inches. This small move would increase the need for green placement for a short shot, while decreasing the need for green placement on a shot that goes long. Longer shot = harder (because of more distance and more trees to navigate), and therefore should provide more reward.
Or if you're a normal human and prefer a visualization rather than my ranting, view the pic (the blue area isn't a lake; it's the landing zones that give you an unobstructed putt).
(Not to Scale)
(Obviously)
Attachments
Yes, great point.
NOStheBOSS
Double Eagle Member
I guess I am speaking from experience. 99% of the holes I've played, if you are on the green, you have a putt. Meaning you are in bounds and within 35 feet. Sure you might have a death putt, but theoretically you have nothing to think about if you are a good putter and you expect to make the putt. Greens like Oak Grove and Winthrop can completely prevent you from making a putt from certain angles. So instead of "Just get in bounds and within 35 feet" you have to think "Get in bounds, within 35 feet, and on the correct side of the green"
I hope that I didn't come off as negative with my original post. I actually like this basket location and feel that there should be more obstructed putting surfaces on tour, as long as they are done strategically.
I think both are nice touches. A clear landing area, with no OB, BUT obstructed putts if on the wrong side of the green is one thing. A restricted landing area, with OB short, long, or to the side, OR a steep dropoff in one direction, is another. I think both require precision on the drive/upshot, just a different feel to the hole. I like the variety. I think that having to land on one side of the green on a couple holes per round is a good thing. Same with an elevated basket or two, low ceilings, really tight gaps, etc. All variety is good so long as it is not overdone on any one layout.
YMMV.
Seems like the USDGC has lost a bit of its prestige with newer fans of the sport. Most of the people I see commenting online talk about how awful the course looks with the OB and griping about not having post coverage. The USDGC has arguably the best history of any event in DG, I'd really hate for them to lose the next generation of fans.
To be fair, I think everything that's not cutting edge Pro Tour "latest and greatest" has lost a lot of its prestige with the newer fans.
At the risk of sounding like an old man shouting "get off my lawn!", I definitely feel like a large number of newer fans have a lot to learn. It seems like a big part of it is they see and learn what's new and hot before they learn about the old school, grassroots, and traditional aspects (if they ever learn about those at all). It results in a lot of perfectionism and griping about minor things or things that are intentionally old school.
I see this cropping up hard in my local scene. A couple good examples; Complaining about 12' tee pads. We've always had those pads on our 5500' course, and I literally went 10 years and never heard a complaint. Now that a couple of very competitive players have long run ups, suddenly it's an issue. Another would be downplaying the game of all time greats like Kenny and Barry. Those guys were literally throwing top tier rounds a few years ago at 50 years old. Like... how do you figure they couldn't be competitive today based on that?
Anyway... USDGC has probably the greatest tradition in our game (since Worlds doesn't have the same kind of "pomp" with moving locations) and I'm glad to see it continue. I don't really care what the kids think. I really enjoy having critical discussions with the new folks that care enough to actually learn our history. I'm enjoying becoming a "veteran" that can share stories and information despite "only" being in the game for 15 years.
Otherwise, it's like anything that goes big time - you ain't gonna like everybody, and you ain't gonna agree with everybody.
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All history, sports or otherwise lose some of their shine over time.
One hole is that DG doesn't really have anyone telling the history in any significant way. Big sports have infinite "legends" type shows or history of the sport. We have grainy video tapes.
Also, individual sports don't hold up as well as head to head competition like stick and ball sports or combat sports.
Watch Mark Spitz dominate in the pool but compared to todays swimmers he looks slow and his times are dramatically slower than today. It's not fair, but I think individual sports suffer from comparing yesterday's great performances to todays and they dont stand up well.
One hole is that DG doesn't really have anyone telling the history in any significant way. Big sports have infinite "legends" type shows or history of the sport. We have grainy video tapes.
Also, individual sports don't hold up as well as head to head competition like stick and ball sports or combat sports.
Watch Mark Spitz dominate in the pool but compared to todays swimmers he looks slow and his times are dramatically slower than today. It's not fair, but I think individual sports suffer from comparing yesterday's great performances to todays and they dont stand up well.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
This times a thousand. USDGC was so far ahead of its time at the turn of the century that it boggles the mind.
Yeah honestly not sure why I even put the "probably". As far as events it's 100% the historical event of the sport. Worlds has a rich history but due to the changing location (I'm guessing that's what it is?) it just never had quite the same same prestige back in the 2000's.
When I started playing in 2007 I think it was pretty much the golden age of the USDGC. Kenny signed everything 12x, 5x and Barry signed everything 2x, 3x. Those USDGC titles meant every bit as much as their worlds at that time.
It's normal for people to be critical of the course for a major if it's not absolute state-of-the-art, but the historical nature of the event shouldn't be completely disregarded as a rationale for why certain things work and/or are a good choice. The history of the event is 100% a good enough justification to continue using the Winthrop location and trying to innovate on it. Considering a new venue would be fine, but to say that the course is terrible or the event is garbage because they try to spruce up the venue artificially feels wrong and very short sighted. Every year they try something new and some sticks and some doesn't.
Obviously it's all just a matter of opinion.
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