[Question] What disc do you love but nobody else does?

[broomerang]

Valid points. There are definitely some speeds of drivers that are overlooked. 8 and 10 most notably. I'd even say 11 too if it weren't for the Wraith. Speed 10 drivers simply got obsoleted. Beasts are still sorta popular, but Monsters, Starfires, Orcs, and Flashes sure aren't.

I think the only speed 8 driver Innova even makes is the Archangel, and everyone knows that thing is a hunk of junk. 8 is a bit of an awkward speed for a driver. It can't decide if it wants to be a fairway or distance driver.

Didn't Val bag the Starfire as her Sig disc? Monster is too OS to be very useful for anything other than utility so I don't think it's worth mentioning. The Monarch would be a better disc to mention as it's so largely overlooked I had forgotten it even existed until I looked on the website before responding (Outclassed by the Roadrunner). Flash is OOP. It was a mold that suffered from extreme inconsistencies in production thanks to it's very strange rim shape.

tl:dr so many good discs on the market nowadays the relative popularity is subjective at best. It's impossible not to find 3-4 options in each slot nowadays.

Escape and Volt are both speed 8. I haven't thrown an Escape but the Volt is a really good disc. Both were/are very popular. Teebird3 and TL3 are both listed as Speed 8 as well and they are pretty popular. Not as popular as the Teebird itself but it's worth noting that quite a few pros are throwing them over the OG mold. Mantis is speed 8 as well.

Orcs and Beasts would be a lot more popular if they were marketed more, and they are really good discs. Marketing really does impact a disc's viability in the market. Wraith was the "fastest" disc when it came out and Ken Climo threw them. That really gave a leg up compared to the Beast. If you believe that the best pro throws the best discs you probably lean towards his choices over the choices of the players he beat consistently. We're all suckers for this kind of comparative psychology if we're not practicing mindfulness.

Worth mentioning that Sexton still bags Orcs and Barry still bags the Beast (one of his Sig discs).

The PD is a speed 10, well it's really like a 9.5 but it's one of the most popular molds in the world.

Speed 6 is probably the most overlooked class with the least amount of popular options among most manufacturers. The leopard being the only Innova mold I can think of being popular. MVP/Axiom has a lot of discs in the Speed 6 class though, some of which are really good: Crave, Resistor, Relay. I'm not familiar with newer Discraft but there seems to be love for the Zombee.

 

[SD86]

Valid points. There are definitely some speeds of drivers that are overlooked. 8 and 10 most notably. I'd even say 11 too if it weren't for the Wraith. Speed 10 drivers simply got obsoleted. Beasts are still sorta popular, but Monsters, Starfires, Orcs, and Flashes sure aren't.

I think the only speed 8 driver Innova even makes is the Archangel, and everyone knows that thing is a hunk of junk. 8 is a bit of an awkward speed for a driver. It can't decide if it wants to be a fairway or distance driver.

I think the Teebird3 and TL3 were 'elevated' to speed 8, but that's just 'semantics' with the numbers; they're speed 7s. I agree that Speed 8 is a tweener speed, and awkward.

Archangels are decent beginner discs, though most players that get serious about the game outgrow it. I've experimented with carrying a 175g DX Archangel and throwing it around the lake on my home course, where a hyzer flip into a tunnel is needed, and knowing that losing it to the lake would be no really big deal. So far, so good...

 

[SD86]

Didn't Val bag the Starfire as her Sig disc?
...
Worth mentioning that Sexton still bags Orcs and Barry still bags the Beast (one of his Sig discs).

If memory serves me correctly, Val had ONE beat-in Starfire that was a family hand-me-down. She did use it, but moved on to Terns. When she won her fourth world title, Innova slapped some 4x stamps on Star Starfires in an attempt to reduce their inventory. They also put out commemorative Star SLs for her 4x title. The Starfire never was really popular, though.

Paul McBeth could not make the Monster more popular. Nuff said, there.

Yes, Nate Sexton still bags an Orc, which has helped its sales some but not a huge amount. And the Beast isn't totally unpopular; some like it better than the Valkyrie, while some prefer the Valk. The Beast is a good disc, if Innova would get their (stuff) straight on the X and L of the mold...

 

[Twmccoy]

Didn't Val bag the Starfire as her Sig disc? Monster is too OS to be very useful for anything other than utility so I don't think it's worth mentioning. The Monarch would be a better disc to mention as it's so largely overlooked I had forgotten it even existed until I looked on the website before responding (Outclassed by the Roadrunner). Flash is OOP. It was a mold that suffered from extreme inconsistencies in production thanks to it's very strange rim shape.

tl:dr so many good discs on the market nowadays the relative popularity is subjective at best. It's impossible not to find 3-4 options in each slot nowadays.

Escape and Volt are both speed 8. I haven't thrown an Escape but the Volt is a really good disc. Both were/are very popular. Teebird3 and TL3 are both listed as Speed 8 as well and they are pretty popular. Not as popular as the Teebird itself but it's worth noting that quite a few pros are throwing them over the OG mold. Mantis is speed 8 as well.

Orcs and Beasts would be a lot more popular if they were marketed more, and they are really good discs. Marketing really does impact a disc's viability in the market. Wraith was the "fastest" disc when it came out and Ken Climo threw them. That really gave a leg up compared to the Beast. If you believe that the best pro throws the best discs you probably lean towards his choices over the choices of the players he beat consistently. We're all suckers for this kind of comparative psychology if we're not practicing mindfulness.

Worth mentioning that Sexton still bags Orcs and Barry still bags the Beast (one of his Sig discs).

The PD is a speed 10, well it's really like a 9.5 but it's one of the most popular molds in the world.

Speed 6 is probably the most overlooked class with the least amount of popular options among most manufacturers. The leopard being the only Innova mold I can think of being popular. MVP/Axiom has a lot of discs in the Speed 6 class though, some of which are really good: Crave, Resistor, Relay. I'm not familiar with newer Discraft but there seems to be love for the Zombee.

I agree with a lot of this. Hyping the discs definitely does help them sell. The Wraith is fairly widely thrown by pros, thus many people buy them. I think the Beast would sell better if Innova went back to the X mold (which I hear they have). The Beast L mold was a clunky junker and I never cared for it at all. The Starfire is a great mold that you hear little about. I actually bag a champion Starfire. Great predictable overstability there. The Orc is a good mold too. If I didn't have the Starfire around I'd probably bag an Orc.

The Flash did have some HUGE mold inconsistencies. I threw a few of them that were very overstable and glideless. Others would be really flippy bombers.

Speed 6 discs are weird. I don't throw them. I don't like the Leopard at all. Strange hand feel and they're too flippy. The Zombee was like throwing a faster mid. It flies so slow and straight. I could make the Zombee work on the course, but it also doesn't really have a niche for me.

I've thrown 1 Teebird3 and liked it. The disc was laser straight and easy to aim. I'm not a fan of the Escape. It flies less stable than advertised and I find it flippy.

 

[Twmccoy]

If memory serves me correctly, Val had ONE beat-in Starfire that was a family hand-me-down. She did use it, but moved on to Terns. When she won her fourth world title, Innova slapped some 4x stamps on Star Starfires in an attempt to reduce their inventory. They also put out commemorative Star SLs for her 4x title. The Starfire never was really popular, though.

Paul McBeth could not make the Monster more popular. Nuff said, there.

Yes, Nate Sexton still bags an Orc, which has helped its sales some but not a huge amount. And the Beast isn't totally unpopular; some like it better than the Valkyrie, while some prefer the Valk. The Beast is a good disc, if Innova would get their (stuff) straight on the X and L of the mold...

This. I loved champion Beast Xs back in about 2004-05. As soon as the Beast L mold came out I quit throwing them. Suddenly the Beast felt like a clunkier Sidewinder that was really flippy. A good Beast X would noticeably turn, but always come back strong at the end. The Beast L would turn over and keep going right.

The Monster is a brick. I've dabbled with them here and there, but I have no use for a disc that flies so short and glideless. At least with the XCal you can mash on it for straight distance. The Monster falls to the ground like a meteorite and crashes.

I guess I'm surprised the Starfire doesn't get more looks. I think its a great disc. Nice, straight fights followed by a hard fade. I can get a Starfire out around 400' reliably. Great disc to throw hard without worrying about it flipping.

 

[Casey 1988]

Valid points. There are definitely some speeds of drivers that are overlooked. 8 and 10 most notably. I'd even say 11 too if it weren't for the Wraith. Speed 10 drivers simply got obsoleted. Beasts are still sorta popular, but Monsters, Starfires, Orcs, and Flashes sure aren't.

I think the only speed 8 driver Innova even makes is the Archangel, and everyone knows that thing is a hunk of junk. 8 is a bit of an awkward speed for a driver. It can't decide if it wants to be a fairway or distance driver.

Nope the 3 top Teebird and 3 top TL are 8 speed as well as The Dragon. The Dragon a good disc as it flies like a Valkyrie but at a true speed 8 disc as well as being a wind going to the basket type tailwind disc as they are 150 grams besides just a water disc. Archangel my dad has a DX one at 146-149 grams for the same shot over land I use a Dragon for, the tailwind going to basket.

 

[Twmccoy]

Nope the 3 top Teebird and 3 top TL are 8 speed as well as The Dragon. The Dragon a good disc as it flies like a Valkyrie but at a true speed 8 disc as well as being a wind going to the basket type tailwind disc as they are 150 grams besides just a water disc. Archangel my dad has a DX one at 146-149 grams for the same shot over land I use a Dragon for, the tailwind going to basket.

The Dragon and Archangel are like throwing coffee can lids. They go nowhere and flip violently. Even downwind they're useless.

 

[Casey 1988]

The Dragon and Archangel are like throwing coffee can lids. They go nowhere and flip violently. Even downwind they're useless.

You do not know how to throw them then. those discs take a finnese to throw right though you can put full power and speed on them it can't be just pure mashing on the disc, you need to have the right controlled speed and power for those discs. Both of those discs do an amazing S flight if thrown properly. I just find the Archangel to be a bit too touchy as compared to the Dragon a disc that is easier to get the power from the disc then an Archangel.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

Speed 6 discs are weird. I don't throw them. I don't like the Leopard at all. Strange hand feel and they're too flippy. The Zombee was like throwing a faster mid. It flies so slow and straight. I could make the Zombee work on the course, but it also doesn't really have a niche for me.

I've thrown 1 Teebird3 and liked it. The disc was laser straight and easy to aim. I'm not a fan of the Escape. It flies less stable than advertised and I find it flippy.

Either get a max weight Champ Leo and pop it on a bit of hyzer or you have an OAT problem. Regarding the TB3, I found it no better than my TBs and ThBs (or PDs). The Escape beats into flippy, but a flat Lucid was what I used for a "main" driver until I stopped throwing "weak" plastic.

 

[Dan Ensor]

Torrent. I've bagged one for years. Great driver. Similar to a Nuke, but maybe a tad less stable.

I never see or hear about Torrents.

Nukes/Bosses are similar enough that it's not worth the effort to find DGA stuff. I'll do work for Aftershocks and Squalls.

Speed 10 is not so much overlooked, but (as you said) left in the dust by the Wraith and other higher speed molds.

Also, taking flight numbers with appropriate grains of salt, it seems that the odd number speeds are prevalent... Speed 5 mids are dominant, speed 6 sorta skipped over, speed 7 chock-full of great molds, speed 8 skipped over, speed 9 full of great molds, speed 10 ignored, speed 11 and up being high speed drivers...

So yeah, the Orc, Beast, Starfire, SL, Monster, etc., are between the popular fairways and popular high speed drivers, and are now treated like red headed stepchildren..

TLRD: They're not enough better than Leopards

I think this is just due to player progression.

Most people quickly find use of a Leopard, but nothing faster is anything but OS. Progressing, faster US discs go farther, but Leopards are still useful as a control driver. And you progress through the speeds.

So you have a peak. Destroyers or Bosses.

What's the advantage of a Wraith over a Leopard? Distance. But more distance means your max-D discs are more consistent.

To justify another speed over another stability in the bag requires quite a bit of distance to make the differences between speeds greater.

To justify carrying one speed (Leopard) over another (Orc/Wraith) is preference, imo. After throwing Leopards the entire time, who's going to prefer something else?

The Dragon and Archangel are like throwing coffee can lids. They go nowhere and flip violently. Even downwind they're useless.

Every flippiness is good at some distance.

 

[Alzyurpalz]

I recently put a star Xcal in the bag and that thing bombs. For me it goes straighter than my star Destroyer before a sharp skipping fade. Don't see many people talking about/throwing Xcals even though Sexton does such good work with them.

 

[swhite]

You do not know how to throw them then. those discs take a finnese to throw right though you can put full power and speed on them it can't be just pure mashing on the disc, you need to have the right controlled speed and power for those discs..

Ha ha. Good answer! But isn't this kind of talk supposed to be reserved for the joe shmoes who feel they need to defend the Comet, even when there is no evidence that they themselves can demonstrate the awesome properties that they claim are inherent in them?

One could use this line of reasoning for any disc that someone else has trouble using!

Statement: "I don't think that Stegos are good for max distance shots."
Reply: "then, you don't know how to throw it."

 

[SD86]

The Dragon and Archangel are like throwing coffee can lids. They go nowhere and flip violently. Even downwind they're useless.

I can't speak for the Dragon, as I've never thrown one. The Archangel probably can't handle your armspeed, but there are a large number of kids and old(er) players that don't have that armspeed, and the Archangel isn't too bad for them. I'm one of the old people, so while my XT Archangel that I got years ago (and feels like a pencil eraser) turns and burns, my max weight DX Archangels are understable but go pretty straight on a hyzer-flip where good form is paid attention to.

And like I said somewhere else, if my DX Archangel is consumed by the DG gods in the lake, I'm not losing my beloved Champ Leopard3 or I-blend Sphinx.

 

[SD86]

[/B]This. I loved champion Beast Xs back in about 2004-05. As soon as the Beast L mold came out I quit throwing them. Suddenly the Beast felt like a clunkier Sidewinder that was really flippy. A good Beast X would noticeably turn, but always come back strong at the end. The Beast L would turn over and keep going right.

The Monster is a brick. I've dabbled with them here and there, but I have no use for a disc that flies so short and glideless. At least with the XCal you can mash on it for straight distance. The Monster falls to the ground like a meteorite and crashes.

I guess I'm surprised the Starfire doesn't get more looks. I think its a great disc. Nice, straight fights followed by a hard fade. I can get a Starfire out around 400' reliably. Great disc to throw hard without worrying about it flipping.

Once played on my home course with a guy who loved his Star Beast-L. I watched him throw that Beast on a rope 350 ft. I know it was 350 ft. because the sign said that was the length to the basket, and this guy parked the Beast pin high and 3 ft. to the right from the teepad. I like my Star Beast-L better than the Valk because the Beast has a little bit more glide than the Valk (YMMV).

Paul McBeth was trying the Monster as his Firebird-'ish' disc, and while he did pretty well with it, I got the idea he didn't like it a lot. Then again, he tried the Firebird, Sexton Firebird, FD3, etc. and never seemed to love any of them, either.

If I were required by the DG gods to throw a speed 10 overstable disc not named "the SL", I'd probably choose the Orc over the Starfire, also. For whatever reason, the Starfire just didn't catch on. I suspect the popularity of the Firebird is the main culprit, there, as well as that general situation where speed 10 discs are shunned by the DG proletarian masses...

 

[Twmccoy]

I recently put a star Xcal in the bag and that thing bombs. For me it goes straighter than my star Destroyer before a sharp skipping fade. Don't see many people talking about/throwing Xcals even though Sexton does such good work with them.

I don't see them often either. I think the XCal is a fairly overlooked mold. Most people probably think they're too overstable to bag/throw. I use my champ XCal for normal drives when the wind starts picking up... or when I want a reliable late fade. I like being able to throw the XCal pretty much as hard as I can and knowing where it will end up.

For being as overstable as it is the XCal will still go a long way flat before abruptly fading. It isn't one of those massively overstable discs that's impossible to throw.

 

[Twmccoy]

Once played on my home course with a guy who loved his Star Beast-L. I watched him throw that Beast on a rope 350 ft. I know it was 350 ft. because the sign said that was the length to the basket, and this guy parked the Beast pin high and 3 ft. to the right from the teepad. I like my Star Beast-L better than the Valk because the Beast has a little bit more glide than the Valk (YMMV).

Paul McBeth was trying the Monster as his Firebird-'ish' disc, and while he did pretty well with it, I got the idea he didn't like it a lot. Then again, he tried the Firebird, Sexton Firebird, FD3, etc. and never seemed to love any of them, either.

If I were required by the DG gods to throw a speed 10 overstable disc not named "the SL", I'd probably choose the Orc over the Starfire, also. For whatever reason, the Starfire just didn't catch on. I suspect the popularity of the Firebird is the main culprit, there, as well as that general situation where speed 10 discs are shunned by the DG proletarian masses...

Yeah, who knows. I clicked with the Starfire years ago. I like that its overstable without being a complete meathook. The Starfire is meant to be thrown hard. I find that if you try to finesse it or take anything off your throw the disc will immediately stall out and die. As for the Orc, I like it too. I bagged one for a long time years ago. I could bag an Orc today and make it work perfectly, but I just don't feel the need for an Orc when I already have a Starfire.

As for the Firebird, I actually like it. However, I don't bag it. I use a Flick for those types of short, overstable drives. For longer overstable drives I use an XCal.

The Firebird for me was fairly clunky and glideless. I know that's exactly how the disc is supposed to fly. The Firebird will definitely show you in a hurry how good your arm is (or isn't). Another fairly forgotten overstable disc is the Max. I bagged one of those for a time. I think the XCal is an overall better mold though. It glides better and goes further. The Max is definitely a good tweener disc between the Firebird and XCal or Ape.

 

[aclay]

Vulcan in Star plastic

 

[SD86]

[/B]Another fairly forgotten overstable disc is the Max. I bagged one of those for a time. I think the XCal is an overall better mold though. It glides better and goes further. The Max is definitely a good tweener disc between the Firebird and XCal or Ape.

I believe the Infinite Discs SLAB is the reincarnation of the Max, or maybe one of these other overstable hi-speed discs. I have no need for that much beef on my DG home course, but others might want to give the SLAB a look...

 

[Suspect]

If you've ever thought, "the best disc for this shot is a manhole cover," you'll like the Stego.

I would love a disc like that from 60 feet out. Much fade for that distance? I'd like to have it wrap around that pin

 

[Casey 1988]

Ha ha. Good answer! But isn't this kind of talk supposed to be reserved for the joe shmoes who feel they need to defend the Comet, even when there is no evidence that they themselves can demonstrate the awesome properties that they claim are inherent in them?

One could use this line of reasoning for any disc that someone else has trouble using!

Statement: "I don't think that Stegos are good for max distance shots."
Reply: "then, you don't know how to throw it."

Red Line: Not really some of the disc are just too much for some players like they are trying to use a max weight high speed disc Moderate OS to super OS speed 12+ when the person would be better off with a lesser speed disc, a more SS disc, or a lighter weight disc of same mold. I found I can use the 170-172 gram speed discs for the one Max distance moderate OS disc I use but I would rather use a 166-168 gram disc with 168 being ideal. I do that because I find the lower speed 10 disc of same flight path to be uncomfortable in hand. Yes I know You can say that: the person Does not know how to use disc, in general terms but the line I was using was not knowing how to do a controlled power shot in specific. It is like the person I was quoting uses only OS to straight flying discs from the companies they play with.