What does the weight difference mean?

[Shutrbug]

I read on a forum post that someone thought they should "be a man" and get the heaviest discs available, then later learned to get lighter discs instead (the implication being that heavier is not always better). My starter pack of Innova discs came with a 150g Aviar and 150g Shark, which seems to be the lowest weight I've seen. So at the beginning of my disc career (which was about a month ago), I decided that Lighter = Beginners. So when I bought a 3 pack of Innova putters for practice, I got the lightest available (163).

Now I'm reading about the different plastics available, and I can generally tell that you get what you pay for, so the softer plastics get dinged more than the harder plastics. I send a significant portion of my throws into the parking lot next to my local course, so there's no need to upgrade to nicer discs for me yet - even the nice plastic will get dinged where I'm throwing them! :\

I was lucky enough to get to see the NG Exclusive setup in my hometown this past weekend. There was a rep there with a tent selling used discs, so I got a few. I see that some of them are significantly heavier than what I already have. So I am now wondering - what does that mean? I haven't really uncovered an article or a Youtube video that says what a heavier disc will do vs a lighter disc, so I thought this would be a good place to ask.

 

[slowplastic]

While you can technically throw a significantly lighter disc...say 150's vs. 170's slightly faster, that is pretty insignificant. It will be like 1-2 MPH from what I have measured on my own throws.

The bigger difference is more glide. You have the same surface area/size of disc but less mass. So lighter discs can be more floaty/glidey so they are easier for beginners to throw...slower arm speed will get a bit more glide.

The downside is that more glide = more wind influence. Better players can throw far easily, so they'd rather have a disc that is less affected by wind.

As well, lots of light discs tend to be made less consistently, I guess they are harder to manufacture. So for people who buy tons of discs, generally there is more disc to disc variation in super light weights.

In general the "nicer" plastics like Star/Champ take forever to wear in...throw them into the parking lot repeatedly and they are fine. At worst if there is a scuff then just use fine sandpaper or even smooth cement like from a skatepark or sidewalk to rub the disc on to smooth them out. Discs gain glide and lose fade as they get dinged up...so a beat in star/champ disc is a good thing. You just want to avoid nasty gouges like throwing into the edge of a sharp sign or some other freak accident that is unlikely to occur.

But generally the higher end plastics are way more overstable, as in more fade when they are new. It's not just the weight factor, they actually generally have a higher wing/PLH...google that if you want a ton of info about disc nerdiness.

If you want a step up from baseline plastic so you have a bit more durability, but not as overstable as star/champ then either try out Gstar or Pro plastic from Innova, for example. I'm using Innova as a reference just because they are so well known. Those plastics wear in a bit faster than star/champ and are easier to grip. Keep in mind that Gstar is very soft and pro feels closer to star.

I would not buy drivers in cheap/DX plastic, the sharp rim with the soft plastic means they will take flight altering gouges very easily. In putters/mids DX lasts quite a while. DX fairway drivers are amazing fliers and good for newer players...they have an ok durability depending on how soft the particular disc is. Above speed 9 or so in general I would stay away from DX. Again, this is just a personal preference and no "rule".

 

[RFrance]

Here are a couple of good videos on the subject. But, unfortunately, I think the answer to heavy vs. light weight is that it just depends...

 

[Shutrbug]

Thank you both - I appreciate that! That's exactly the type of information I was hoping to find.

I think I will google some of that - I am reviewing the spreadsheet I made of my discs with columns for plastic type, weight, color etc - I guess I've already dipped into the realm of disc nerdiness...

 

[slowplastic]

Thank you both - I appreciate that! That's exactly the type of information I was hoping to find.

I think I will google some of that - I am reviewing the spreadsheet I made of my discs with columns for plastic type, weight, color etc - I guess I've already dipped into the realm of disc nerdiness...

Haha yeah then definitely look up PLH - parting line height. It is the best way to compare/estimate relative stability between discs of the SAME MOLD. Even comparing different plastics like a Star Teebird to a Champ Teebird with PLH is useful. But you can't, say, compare a Teebird's and Leopard's PLH...the shape of the wing itself is different and those curvatures also impact flight characteristics.

Generally you'll find players throwing heavier putters and midranges...these discs are meant for consistency and not supposed to be your longest discs anyways. Plus being blunter rim shaped, they tend to get decent lift/glide already. Lots of AM/casual players will then prefer their fairways or drivers in slightly lower weights to help with distance. For example it's common to have players bag putters/mids in the 170+ range up to 175+, but drivers in that 165-170 range.

I honestly don't feel or find much difference until I go to 165 or less...I really think disc shape/PLH/plastic matters way more than a few grams here or there. For example my most overstable Destroyer is 7g lighter than my others, but the wing shape and PLH are the cause of that.

 

[Casey 1988]

Haha yeah then definitely look up PLH - parting line height. It is the best way to compare/estimate relative stability between discs of the SAME MOLD. Even comparing different plastics like a Star Teebird to a Champ Teebird with PLH is useful. But you can't, say, compare a Teebird's and Leopard's PLH...the shape of the wing itself is different and those curvatures also impact flight characteristics.

Generally you'll find players throwing heavier putters and midranges...these discs are meant for consistency and not supposed to be your longest discs anyways. Plus being blunter rim shaped, they tend to get decent lift/glide already. Lots of AM/casual players will then prefer their fairways or drivers in slightly lower weights to help with distance. For example it's common to have players bag putters/mids in the 170+ range up to 175+, but drivers in that 165-170 range.

I honestly don't feel or find much difference until I go to 165 or less...I really think disc shape/PLH/plastic matters way more than a few grams here or there. For example my most overstable Destroyer is 7g lighter than my others, but the wing shape and PLH are the cause of that.

.

Note some midrange come at 180 grams max being that they are the next up bigger diameter that the PDGA allows a weight up to 180 grams. With those I tend to get 175 grams plus or minus a gram or two. As I like my drivers under speed 10 to be at 169-172 grams about 5 grams or so lower. This is not even considering max distance drivers as those should not be used by people who are not experienced with at least 3-4 years experience, even US Max distance as those will not go anywhere for a beginner.

 

[Blobfish]

Your question about the weight has mostly been answered, but I just wanted to add a tiny bit about the physics, specifically rotational inertia (moment of inertia):
In case you forgot your HS physics, rotational inertia is a property of an object that defines its resistance to a change in its state of rotation (in other words, how easy it is to spin). For the bulk of your discs, the rotational inertia can somewhat simplify to MR^2.
The lower the value, the easier it is to bring the disc up to speed. By easier, I mean it take less torque (twisting force) to accelerate it to top rotational speed. In fact, you might remember Newton's Second Law of F=ma or Force = mass (aka inertia) x (acceleration). The rotational analogue is Torque = (rotational inertia) x (rotational acceleration).
Thus, if your arm is only strong enough to produce a certain amount of force (torque), for a given rotational inertia (property of the disc), you'll only accelerate it so hard.
Low rotational inertia discs have low SPEED ratings because they don't require much torque.
On the other hand, moving the mass further and further away from the axis of rotation (like a distance driver) increases the rotational inertia and thus the torque required to throw and thus these become HIGH SPEED discs.
That said, a disc can somewhat be simplified to having a rotational inertia of MR^2 and as the radius is fixed, a variable mass will impact it (but less so than the radius if that were variable since it's linear as opposed to squared).
So how this translates to you as a thrower is that for your fixed arm snap (torque), you'll get more rotational acceleration on a lighter disc and bring it up to speed faster.

Rotational inertia works the other way as well, since Newton's First Law says that an object in motion will stay in motion unless acted upon by an outside force; it applies rotationally as well and so a high speed (high rotational inertia) disc wants to retain its state of rotation longer. This makes high speed drivers difficult for arms that deliver less torque to adequately throw because without enough rotational acceleration on the throw, the disc is already almost ready to fade out as it slows and precesses.
But to compensate, many people will throw lighter high speed overstable dics (Z-lite Nuke OS, for example, in the 140ish grams)

One last note about light discs and inertia (linear inertia this time): wind.

Just like Slowplastic mentioned about glide and wind, lighter discs are generally going to be a touch more affected by winds, which is why you will often see folks using heavy putters.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Thank you both - I appreciate that! That's exactly the type of information I was hoping to find.

I think I will google some of that - I am reviewing the spreadsheet I made of my discs with columns for plastic type, weight, color etc - I guess I've already dipped into the realm of disc nerdiness...

Way to go! I just wanted to second anything slowplastic and rfrance said.. And to reiterate the sentiment about 165+ weight discs. I'm getting older and better my preferred weight for drivers is 165ish to 170max.. I find it's a sweet spot for me. I don't like the extra 5g to max weight I have trouble getting them going properly. If I'm trying a new mold that's generally the first weight I will try. Anything lighter is generally a mold that's been tampered with etc, like a 155 can be a crapshoot because the disc was designed to be 165+

That being said I do pack around midranges generally 170-176ish and throw a few 155g distance drivers. Best thing I ever did was get a 170 Aviar, I always threw max weight before that and it instantly extended my flights and control. Now I prefer 167ish Envy's... and I've been playing for a long time.

*side note I also throw a lot of MVP/Axiom and weirdly enough some of their mid weight discs are more stable than the max weight but the inertia still applies the same. Just to interject some weirdness.

 

[Shutrbug]

So my disc golf career has been hampered mostly by my inability to really get a 'good' throw off of the tee. And my lack of practice has been hampered by the fact that's it is AllStar season for little league baseball. Last night, I figured out how to use all of that to my advantage... BATTING CAGES!

While the kids and coaches were on the field, I was planning on taking my bag with me to one of the other fields to practice throwing. But last night, all fields were taken. So I thought I'd try to at least go into the batting cage to practice my throw - and it turned out to be a great place to throw over and over. I didn't have to go that far to retrieve my discs, and I could tell whether or not they went straight/right/left after release. That's all I care about right now, anyway. The harder I throw, the worse my aim gets. This way I could add power slowly and still stop to correct grip or my feet.

 

[RFrance]

So my disc golf career has been hampered mostly by my inability to really get a 'good' throw off of the tee. And my lack of practice has been hampered by the fact that's it is AllStar season for little league baseball. Last night, I figured out how to use all of that to my advantage... BATTING CAGES!

While the kids and coaches were on the field, I was planning on taking my bag with me to one of the other fields to practice throwing. But last night, all fields were taken. So I thought I'd try to at least go into the batting cage to practice my throw - and it turned out to be a great place to throw over and over. I didn't have to go that far to retrieve my discs, and I could tell whether or not they went straight/right/left after release. That's all I care about right now, anyway. The harder I throw, the worse my aim gets. This way I could add power slowly and still stop to correct grip or my feet.

Batting cages are a great place to work on form. In addition to what you said I found that for me it also removed the urge to swing for the fences so that I could slow down and concentrate on getting the feel of the throw. This might be a good place to answer your original question. See if you can tell the difference between heavier and lighter discs. :thmbup:

 

[c_a_miller]

That's all I care about right now, anyway. The harder I throw, the worse my aim gets. This way I could add power slowly and still stop to correct grip or my feet.

I am not sure what your approach is to drives, but if you are running up on your drives, you are going to have some accuracy issues. I might recommend, if you are already not doing so, to stand still to throw.

 

[Casey 1988]

I am not sure what your approach is to drives, but if you are running up on your drives, you are going to have some accuracy issues. I might recommend, if you are already not doing so, to stand still to throw.

And on here there are some good threads for driving tips when ready for that, just do not get too analytical on the Drive or fairway drive or could drive yourself nuts trying to figure it out if you try to do every detail to an exact perfection.

 

[Shutrbug]

And on here there are some good threads for driving tips when ready for that, just do not get too analytical on the Drive or fairway drive or could drive yourself nuts trying to figure it out if you try to do every detail to an exact perfection.

Yes - I am definitely not trying to do the over-analytical bit. That's my personality, so I'm fighting it! In fact, I still can't really tell much of the difference between my 150 Aviar and my 162/3/4 Aviars. Instead of worrying about it, I'm just throwing all 4 of them and looking for differences.

In fact, my wife is just starting to play, and 3 or 4 kids in my social circle. I'm showing them what I know, but I definitely don't want to be one of those people being talking about in the "Things noobs say" thread! There's a difference in sharing what I saw on Youtube and acting like I've known this forever.

And I have been running up a little bit - not so much for trying to add power, as much as it is just trying to copy what I see on Youtube about doing the X-step. It doesn't help much. I got a Judge and a Deputy used, and I was throwing them this weekend on a long straight stretch at my parents' house along with my Aviars. For fun, I would throw my Leopard and Maverick drivers too, just to see the difference. They would fly much higher and curve much more - but they would land within 5' of my putters most of the time. That tells me that the putters are just fine. I'll definitely go back to trying this standing still and see how that helps. I appreciate all of the input.

 

[Casey 1988]

Yes - I am definitely not trying to do the over-analytical bit. That's my personality, so I'm fighting it! In fact, I still can't really tell much of the difference between my 150 Aviar and my 162/3/4 Aviars. Instead of worrying about it, I'm just throwing all 4 of them and looking for differences.

In fact, my wife is just starting to play, and 3 or 4 kids in my social circle. I'm showing them what I know, but I definitely don't want to be one of those people being talking about in the "Things noobs say" thread! There's a difference in sharing what I saw on Youtube and acting like I've known this forever.

And I have been running up a little bit - not so much for trying to add power, as much as it is just trying to copy what I see on Youtube about doing the X-step. It doesn't help much. I got a Judge and a Deputy used, and I was throwing them this weekend on a long straight stretch at my parents' house along with my Aviars. For fun, I would throw my Leopard and Maverick drivers too, just to see the difference. They would fly much higher and curve much more - but they would land within 5' of my putters most of the time. That tells me that the putters are just fine. I'll definitely go back to trying this standing still and see how that helps. I appreciate all of the input.

I would Recommend for Putting putters to be heavier in weight at least over 165 grams, better at 170 grams or over. Even when I started in last weekend of July 2003 with a 170 gram Rubber Putter (Lighting disc owned by Gotta Go Gotta throw now) from an uncle after loosing a 169 gram DX Stingray in water a week after that was given to me as well. Some people though can use under 165 grams for putting.

I got other discs in old stiff DX (now closest is XT plastic) a year later that were my discs I used for a few years until late 2005 when Discs finally got sold in my town. Odd since a true disc golf course in my area Pierre (pronounced Pier) South Dakota was established in mid 2003 so few people could try out discs to know what they wanted for a set of discs, info online was hard to come by about discs.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

I have been running up a little bit - not so much for trying to add power, as much as it is just trying to copy what I see on Youtube about doing the X-step. It doesn't help much. I got a Judge and a Deputy used, and I was throwing them this weekend on a long straight stretch at my parents' house along with my Aviars. For fun, I would throw my Leopard and Maverick drivers too, just to see the difference. They would fly much higher and curve much more - but they would land within 5' of my putters most of the time. That tells me that the putters are just fine. I'll definitely go back to trying this standing still and see how that helps. I appreciate all of the input.

Standstill throws is fairly good advice, you do need a rocking motion back then forwards when you throw... and leave yourself a step in front of the teepad for a follow through.

FWIW I really like a SLOW motion x step.. It is by no means a run up more like a turtle doing an x step. The biggest mistake people make is throwing too soon before they plant their front foot and before they shift their weight over top of the lead leg.

 

[Casey 1988]

Standstill throws is fairly good advice, you do need a rocking motion back then forwards when you throw... and leave yourself a step in front of the teepad for a follow through.

FWIW I really like a SLOW motion x step.. It is by no means a run up more like a turtle doing an x step. The biggest mistake people make is throwing too soon before they plant their front foot and before they shift their weight over top of the lead leg.

Yeah I second. I went too fast on a hole for one my local courses the in town one and ended with too much power for a R-DX Dragon a 150 gram disc on a potential water hole, drainage ditch so the disc went to the right over a paved path and into the fairway of hole 15 or 16. I even did the small forward hop I normally do on a mega power throw.