[Question] What flight parameter predicts a disc "diving" at high speed?

[sam.hendley]

I am a mid 900s RHFH dominant player with quite a bit of forehand snap. I normally throw discs like xCals and wraiths for distance and buzz OS for mid/short shots. I have been looking to find a better turn over disc for max distance S-shots. I have had the most success with max weight shrykes but I find they do what many other understable discs do and seem dive when I really smash it.

When i say "dive" I am talking about after the disc has flipped up to flat and starts to turn left the nose of the disc looks like it pushes down and the disc starts diving. This makes the disc lose so much air and therefore not get it's full flight. I can somewhat counteract by throwing the disc higher but that also makes it more likely for me to not give it the right amount of hyzer and throw a very poor shot. It seems like the dive is related more to how much spin I put on the disc rather than the speed but I am not really good enough to vary only one of those parameters at a time so I can't be certain.

I am hoping you guys can help me understand what discs to try to find something that doesn't have this issue. It could also be a form or release issue I guess but I don't seem to have nose down issues when I throw other discs with same release. Thanks for any advice.

 

[elmexdela]

sounds like a form issue

what happens when you flick neutral putters?

 

[F. Howl]

A turning disc loses altitude. Maybe you're just flipping it over too much. If you don't want to give it height, get something a bit more OS.

 

[Twmccoy]

Yeah, it sounds like you're just turning the Shryke over too much. Going from an XCal to a Shryke is a pretty big step toward understable. You might try something in the middle, like a Nuke, Colossus, or Boss. A disc you can throw hard and put some high speed turn on, but that won't turn all the way over.

Even as a backhand thrower I find the Shryke to be touchy at times. Too much arm and it'll flip pretty bad.

 

[slowplastic]

On FH's it can get touchy throwing speed 12+ stuff at close to max power. I'm at altitude so I will use a star Vulcan or a Sheriff for these shots at 375'+ FH. Sometimes they will fly exactly as you describe, but if I throw it clean they will just go forever. Often times the shot doesn't feel any different between a clean S-flight and one that dives, I can't feel that I torqued it...but usually I have just gave it a touch of wrist roll that a more stable disc would have hidden completely. Also I find it happens if I'm trying to throw really low line drives, especially if the teepad has a bit of elevation and I'm throwing the disc at eye level or even slightly downwards this is more likely to happen to me.

I am less likely to do this if I try to throw a slight hyzer flip with the disc, rather than rip on it flat. Once the disc turns just a touch too much and it's going at that high of a speed, the turn rate seems to increase and it dives.

 

[Moose33]

The way that discs spin/excelerate with a FH is different than BH, so a disc will behave slightly differently.

This isn't universally true but typically a FH thrown at a certain speed FH will have more RPM than the same disc thrown the same speed BH.

Which means that even though you might not throw it farther, it's likely to behave in a more understable way.

Probably a lot of people will come on here to say it's a form issue, it could be, but we have no way of knowing without video.

If your like me when I got your description(mid 900s, all FH) you might do well to try something that is OS, but not so much that it will be a form crutch.

The Giant, Destroyer and Da'E are all overstable discs that have good glide, and when they have power behind the will turn but also resist flipping(that is the "dive" your referring to.

If you wanted my advise I'd say go get one of the VIP Giants in about 170 and see how it works for you.

I throw mine in the 400-450 range and even farther at times and don't have to throw as hard as I can to do it.

 

[rocthecourse]

This isn't universally true but typically a FH thrown at a certain speed FH will have more RPM than the same disc thrown the same speed BH.

Which means that even though you might not throw it farther, it's likely to behave in a more understable way.

Backhand creates more spin than forehand when thrown at the same speed. Also, the faster you spin a disc the more stable(straight) it is, that is why your forehand throws are behaving more understable.

 

[hugheshilton]

Backhand creates more spin than forehand when thrown at the same speed. Also, the faster you spin a disc the more stable(straight) it is, that is why your forehand throws are behaving more understable.

I believe rtc has it correct. The ratio of spin to forward speed is higher backhand than forehand. Typically, forehands have more forward speed for the amount of spin on the disc than backhands. Spin is what stabilizes any OAT on the disc which is why forehand dominant players typically throw more overstable discs than backhand dominant players (obviously not universally true depending on the player's form but generally true). So as a typical example, holes where a backhand player might be throwing a Teebird or Thunderbird, you will often see a forehand player throw a Firebird.

Anyway, yeah there's a ton of discs that sit in between XCals and Shrykes on the stability spectrum. If you like Innova, I'd say pick up a current run Star Destroyer. The embossed ones aren't so overstable as the last penned run so you should be able to get some good forehand distance out of them without your shot turning into a cut roller.

 

[discflinger]

It's simply what a disc does. Hyzer lifts and anny falls.

 

[Moose33]

Backhand creates more spin than forehand when thrown at the same speed. Also, the faster you spin a disc the more stable(straight) it is, that is why your forehand throws are behaving more understable.

Yeah your right I did it backwards.