This would be a great idea, in my opinion! Granted it would be costly at first to modify existing courses, but if we could find a material that did the trick, then BOY would it increase the skill required to score well. Now we may need to increase the "different material" to beyond 10m so that the shot that lands 35-foot away doesn't skip hard to within 10, but this seems to make sense to me as one that improves the skill level of the sport.
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Whats the next evolution of the game?
- Thread starter eday1022
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This would be a great idea, in my opinion! Granted it would be costly at first to modify existing courses, but if we could find a material that did the trick, then BOY would it increase the skill required to score well. Now we may need to increase the "different material" to beyond 10m so that the shot that lands 35-foot away doesn't skip hard to within 10, but this seems to make sense to me as one that improves the skill level of the sport.
18Down
Par Member
It may have been stated in this thread, I just didn't care to read through it. But it looks like it will be with this new disc manufacturer SD through ISO certified injection molding. No longer will discs be sought after because they "don't make them like the last batch." Consistency in disc flight may just be the thing to catapult this company above the rest of the inconsistent disc makers out there. Time will tell if they can achieve this of course. But I say good luck to them.
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Pretty sure thats backwards. It's harder to hit and stay on the green as they are faster than the surrounding rough. Also why would want to take away a good skip shot? Being shorter than the hole is typically rewarded over being long. It's the whole risk/reward of going for an ace.
I think there is definitely some room to improve on the disc tech side. One of these companies is going to invest the capital to buy a CAD CAM software that will enable them to put them through a wind tunnel before they mold a single disc.
OP great topic
the next BIG thing "should" be an overhaul of the PDGA or a new governing body. a major promoter or sponsor would also provide a significant boost to the growth of the game.
i see people mentioning discs, targets, and equipment as a whole. i doubt we will see anything as evolutionary as the beveled edge. can the equipment be improved? yes, but will those improvements create an revolution? disc design has been close to maxed out within the current PDGA standards. refinements in the manufacturing process and materials (new blends, tech, etc.) will be made and will help legitimize the equipment being used, but again won't be a game changer.
more exposure, more courses, better courses, better exposure, and more people playing will push disc golf forward. some folks think there is a magic disc design that will shake the earth and change disc golf from niche to mainstream. going mainstream won't be accomplished with the best of disc designs. manufactures can't be solely responsible for evolution.
the next BIG thing "should" be an overhaul of the PDGA or a new governing body. a major promoter or sponsor would also provide a significant boost to the growth of the game.
i see people mentioning discs, targets, and equipment as a whole. i doubt we will see anything as evolutionary as the beveled edge. can the equipment be improved? yes, but will those improvements create an revolution? disc design has been close to maxed out within the current PDGA standards. refinements in the manufacturing process and materials (new blends, tech, etc.) will be made and will help legitimize the equipment being used, but again won't be a game changer.
more exposure, more courses, better courses, better exposure, and more people playing will push disc golf forward. some folks think there is a magic disc design that will shake the earth and change disc golf from niche to mainstream. going mainstream won't be accomplished with the best of disc designs. manufactures can't be solely responsible for evolution.
I hear these two things a lot. What would a new governing body do differently or better, and how would they pay for those improvements? Where is that sponsor going to come from, and why should they care about disc golf?
jeverett
Double Eagle Member
Discwing (British company) already did a pretty staggering amount of research and development of discs using wind tunnels. The results were not as phenomenal as hoped.
I agree, there's still some potential for development on the aerodynamics of discs, but one really big problem that comes up over and over is that it's really difficult to make 'imperfect' simulations. i.e. wind tunnels, mechanical throwing arms, etc. end up eliminating some of the variables of 'real' environmental conditions and 'real' throwers, making research difficult to utilize.ScottyLove
Double Eagle Member
I think there is a lot of money out there that we need to find out where it's going... by that I mean for every C-Tier, the PDGA gets $2, B-Tier $3, and A-Tier $4. At least that is my recollection off the top of my head.
I'm going to research this to be sure and the create spreadsheet using a 1-year sample of tournament results. That will tell me how much money was sent in from tournaments ONLY and not include our annual membership dues.
With the amount of tournaments going on right now, I suspect this $ value to be pretty darned high... so my question is, where does it go? I don't think the PDGA adds any cash to our own World Championship. Surely there is some money out there to increase the purse size from inside the PDGA itself.
Sure, I think we should continue to seek out corporate sponsorship, but were is all the money being collected going? Is there an annual report of such things?
Guess I need to do some more research...
Discwing (British company) already did a pretty staggering amount of research and development of discs using wind tunnels. The results were not as phenomenal as hoped.
That's a really good point. You would think that you could design discs that play to certain playing styles/flaws (Buzzz seems to be virtually impervious to OAT/torquing) etc. But the more research and simulations you do, the greater the cost. And as can be seen in many threads on this and the equipment forum, DGers are generally unwilling to fork over more dough than they currently do.
I always thought too that it's well within reason to expect a more consistent disc. The variance between runs is silly. I understand it can't be easy to create the consistency, but a week's visit from a good process engineer, and 50k a year for a QC guy would likely do the trick.
Here is the 2011 summary with the proposed 2012 budget, I doubt 2013 was a huge departure from this. Might give you a place to start.
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
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First off, the numbers you provided are correct, but you left out sanctioning fees as well.
Where does it go? This is public info:
http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/11-12_PDGA_Financial_Summary_Public.pdf
You are wrong about the worlds; the PDGA sponsors all PDGA major events and national tours. And as someone who just ran a major, I can assure you the funds come to the TD.
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ScottyLove
Double Eagle Member
Just what I was looking for! THANKS! I knew as a 501(c)(3) corporation, something like this had to be out there. Also saves me a ton of time calculating that we brought in over $460,000 in tournament fees.
I knew the PDGA was a "sponsor" of Major events... but to what end I guess? Do we "add cash" to the entry fees and monies raised by the local club? Just seems like the purses could be higher for the larger events. We did a B-Tier last year in Joplin that had $4000 added cash an Ron Convers pocketed more money than most A-tiers for winning.
Several years back Nikko cashed like $10K or maybe $15K in one tournament... how do we get back to those days? Just seems like we're slumping rather than growing... at least from a monetary aspect.
The popularity of the sport is EXPLODING... our local club went from 31 to 100 members last year. So I love the growth... just seems odd that our world champ only took home $5500 last year.
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
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10K was USDGC. That's mainly due to Roc sales.
I probably could expose how much the PDGA gave us for US Masters, but I'm not going to. I will say that they just gave us a check for $x and said we could do with it as we please. But budgetting an event is basic accounting; there is an in and an out. The goal is to get these two to equal. You always have more in your in based on added cash. The additional amount in the in column should represent your added cash so then you put in the out column and you are balanced.
We could have used that money to pay for players packs or entertainment or the players party or the added cash but in the end, its just an in and an out. All that mattered was we had $11,000 added cash in the pro fields and an event value of close to $50,000. When you consider we only had about $8,000 - $9,000 in entry fees, that's paying out over 500% of the amount you took in. That's a huge amount of in and not much out.
First places payouts are the most overlooked at number in disc golf.
9 out of 10 pros prefer flat payouts where first and second place get less, but 3rd 4th and 5th get a lot more. A great example of this was USDGC last year where everyone in the top 25 got over $1,000.
The amount of players in a field greatly impacts added cash. If an event raises $3,000 cash and has 40 pros, that means that $3,000 is split amongst 16 - 20 cashing players. That's $150 per player (assuming 20 paid).
If an event has $2,000 cash and only 10 players, that $2,000 is then split amongst 4 or 5 players, or $400 per player (assuming 5 paid).
If the entries were the same, everyone would think the second payout was better when in reality, the first payout is much better.
This happens every year at worlds and this is why it appears the worlds payouts suck, when in reality they are amazing. You are just paying 50 - 72 people sometimes. Your local B tier with 10 pros all of the sudden looks to have amazing payouts when in reality it's just another event.
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chain_ape7
Birdie Member
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- Dec 9, 2012
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All right guys.....the tracking issue I discovered around last Nov.
http://www.sticknfind.com/
This might not work work as far as adhesives on a disc or the weight and flight characteristics being changed - but the tech is there and enough demand will force them to produce a product for our sport.
One thing will dramatically change our sport YOUTH LEAGUES - FAMILY LEAGUES - SENIOR LEAGUES
Local parks - temp baskets - grassroots organization. Our sport will increase EXPONENTIALLY if we can teach and introduce a wider range of people about disc golf.
http://www.sticknfind.com/
This might not work work as far as adhesives on a disc or the weight and flight characteristics being changed - but the tech is there and enough demand will force them to produce a product for our sport.
One thing will dramatically change our sport YOUTH LEAGUES - FAMILY LEAGUES - SENIOR LEAGUES
Local parks - temp baskets - grassroots organization. Our sport will increase EXPONENTIALLY if we can teach and introduce a wider range of people about disc golf.
