Whats the next evolution of the game?

[DerekTonn]

It'll be OK. Think of the history children's play structures. You may not remember, but at one time they were built by plumbers who welded pipes together at right angles and set them in a concrete base. Some of those plumbers had some creative ideas, but we don't miss those days.

After safety standards for play structures were introduced, for a while all you saw was the same colored plastic slides and ladders over ground rubber bases.

But now, there are fiberglass molded structures that look like boats, treehouses, or mountains and have climbing walls and all sorts of things to target specific skills.

We've still got courses with tee pads that have a 6 inch drop off the front edge. We're in the metal pipes on concrete phase.

There may be a blandness phase, with blah designs coming from consultants that don't want to bring in a designer. But great courses will still be built because the enlightened consultants will bring in the top current designers.

There just won't be any more stinkers.

Also, the big money will enable things we don't do now, like earth-moving, massive plantings of native species, artificial turf for high-impact areas, sun and rain protection over the tee pads, cart paths, automatic disc return at driving ranges...

And the quantifying of the sport will lead to the insights that will allow the development of the tools needed to take course design to a whole new level. But that will require a formal structure to capture, teach and build upon the knowledge generated.

(By the way, I don't think it will be the PDGA that writes "the book" on truly professional course design.)

Good comments, Steve. And of course, the PDGA doesn't write the book on course design. That was just me politely poking fun about how the PDGA tries to occasionally be the "No Fun League." Focusing on rules and ratings instead of getting more people to get out there to let those discs fly.

On your bolded comment though, I don't think that needs to wait for "big money." Rather, all it needs is big dreams/ideas, a big heart, and big effort. I've moved hundreds of yards of dirt/gravel and tens of thousands of pounds of rock/brush over the past 6+ years on my home course. It's still not finished, and will never be finished. But it's not as hard as most people make it out to be.

Like the head of our parks dept. in town telling me that it was "impossible" to build a peninsula tee in the middle of a pond! I told him "if they can build palm shaped islands in the middle of the Arabian Gulf, we can build a T-shaped path and tee in the middle of a pond!" LOL.

It's not that we need big money, or it can't be done. What people are really saying is that they don't want to put forth the time/effort to get it done...as the reward isn't great enough to them personally. To which I say if every one of us at DGCR "adopted" a course out there and stayed on top of litter, brush, tree trimming, etc., we'd see a renaissance related to the quality of our courses to play in this country. Professionally designed or not.

[/sermon]

 

[knettles]

Someone mentioned about baskets being the same from all directions. How do you guys think it would work to have a heavy duty type of mesh in place of the chains? Similar to the Innova Traveler, but heavier and much stronger. I know it would eliminate blow throughs, but I'm not sure you could reduce spit outs with one layer of a heavy mesh. Also, durability would be the biggest problem. Chains will last forever, but a mesh might not. Unless it was a metal mesh made up of a bunch of chains. So instead of lines of chains, they would cover the entire area around the pole. Durable, effective, makes a good sound,,, and expensive as crap given you would need at least three times the amount of chains.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Could be a new use for chainmail other than Renaissance Festivals.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

Or, once everyone comes around to realize that the new standard should be open-top baskets (the "tray" of current targets), just cut the pole off at the bottom of the tray.

I guess if you don't like aces, or any shot longer than about 20 feet holing out, open top "trays" would be perfect. It's not that there would be no aces, just that there would be very few. Another few modifications, like replacing the tray with a round depression in the earth (a "hole" if you will) so that no special equipment need to be purchased (just dig a hole).

Of course, once you've gone that far, you could just then replace the disc with a ball and add some sort of device to hit the ball with, maybe even different lofted ones for varying distances, and you might have a near perfect game!

 

[mashnut]

Could be a new use for chainmail other than Renaissance Festivals.

Or perhaps we could partner with renaissance festivals and launch an obscure tv network.

 

[jenb]

golfrisbee

 

[Fraser]

^^My brain can't handle the awesomeness of the golfrisbee.

 

[Steve West]

I guess if you don't like aces, or any shot longer than about 20 feet holing out, open top "trays" would be perfect. It's not that there would be no aces, just that there would be very few. Another few modifications, like replacing the tray with a round depression in the earth (a "hole" if you will) so that no special equipment need to be purchased (just dig a hole).

Of course, once you've gone that far, you could just then replace the disc with a ball and add some sort of device to hit the ball with, maybe even different lofted ones for varying distances, and you might have a near perfect game!

...and it would have 12 million players, and tournaments with millions of dollars in prizes and perfectly groomed courses. Hmmm, this open-top target idea is looking better and better.

The upside of fewer aces and few throws from over 20 feet going in is that the throws before that become much more important - more emphasis on skill for all throws.

But, keep it up off the ground. I don't want to battle frogs to get my disc back.

 

[Cgkdisc]

More likely have to sift through trash.

 

[simpletwist]

I think there will be more pay to play courses and ball golf courses adding baskets to take advantage of the growth of the game.

:thmbup::thmbup:

While I'd love to see some quality disc golf specific shoes come out, I think that private or at least pay to play public courses is the next big wave.

 

[renoob]

Ban forehands, overhands, and rollers.

opcorn:

 

[smarkquart]

The last thing I want to see is a change to the baskets. For a sport to become appealing, it needs to have a distinctive quality to it. The sound of chains being hit by a long putt or an ace is synomymous with disc golf.

Personally I do not think the sport needs to have a major evolution to make it mainstream, just minor but continous improvements. Better and more appealing plastic will further separate disc golf from people just hucking frisbees. More aesthetic and safer tee boxes are a must, afterall they are the first impression of the course. How about better landscaping; it is amazing how a few well-placed glacier rocks can make a hole look like it was well-designed.

If there is any major evolution, it will likely being on the disc design front. Look at what MVP does with overmolding, Innova with Blizzard, and Vibram with rubber. People will always throw their Aviars, Rocs, Buzzzes, and TeeBirds, but as the playerbase keeps getting younger and younger in comparison to me, I see more and more players investing in the "other" companies. How many threads do we have on here where I keep hearing about a new company that is going to offer something new in the way of plastic and design?

 

[jeverett]

Hearing Dave Dunipace talk about how, in his opinion, disc golf *still* doesn't have the distance and 'dynamism' that he wants to see in the 'sport' of disc golf, I'm once again wondering about the original decision to require 'solid' (non-perforated) discs. Yes, there are maybe still a few tweaks to disc design that could produce a little more distance (for top throwers), but the no-brainer solution would just be to allow discs with holes, cutouts, rings, etc. We *know* that would work (just look at the aerobie) for a substantial increase in distance.

 

[mashnut]

Hearing Dave Dunipace talk about how, in his opinion, disc golf *still* doesn't have the distance and 'dynamism' that he wants to see in the 'sport' of disc golf, I'm once again wondering about the original decision to require 'solid' (non-perforated) discs. Yes, there are maybe still a few tweaks to disc design that could produce a little more distance (for top throwers), but the no-brainer solution would just be to allow discs with holes, cutouts, rings, etc. We *know* that would work (just look at the aerobie) for a substantial increase in distance.

Do we really want to increase distance? A lot of the current courses are already made obsolete by current disc technology. Courses that were really fun and challenging when we were using whamos are now pitch n putts that any chucker can shoot under par. We need more and more land to design a course that challenges even advanced level players, let alone the gold and super gold level players. Making it that much easier to throw 500' would only make that issue worse IMO.

 

[Halcón]

Amen. I don't want to play disc golf with Aerobie rings.

 

[crunkjuice]

Ban forehands, overhands, and rollers.

opcorn:

I bet you hated the forward pass in football too.

 

[mashnut]

Amen. I don't want to play disc golf with Aerobie rings.

I've used them when taking a small kid out, lets them throw more than 30' at a time. It could even be fun to go to one of the shared golf/disc golf courses and out-drive the golfers with a ring, but I certainly don't think it would be an evolution of the game to allow that.

 

[jeverett]

Do we really want to increase distance? A lot of the current courses are already made obsolete by current disc technology. Courses that were really fun and challenging when we were using whamos are now pitch n putts that any chucker can shoot under par. We need more and more land to design a course that challenges even advanced level players, let alone the gold and super gold level players. Making it that much easier to throw 500' would only make that issue worse IMO.

I agree, I'm not 100% certain that radically increasing throw distances via 'ring golf' is a good idea.. it would definitely mean courses would need to be entirely rethought (all over again). I suspect Dave was comparing disc golf distances to ball golf distances.. and I think it would take something as significant as aerobies to get that kind of distance.. which would then of course require disc golf courses have the same kind of footprint/space as ball golf courses do.

 

[mashnut]

It would probably be good for manufacturers though, I don't think I ever had one of those things that didn't end up not retrievable on a roof or at the top of a tree or something stupid like that.

 

[araytx]

I think the country should be divided up into 8 geographical areas, North East, South East, Central North, Central South, North West and South West + Canada East VS Canada West. Each area would yearly thru ratings pick the top 4 in each division and play closest rivals NE plays SE so on and so on. You could do it Am and Pro or alternately change each year back and forth. Have tourney mid way, have winner and then they take on each other for the National Regional Championships. It would intensify the rivalry between the nation, keep people watching to see who are the Champs for the year. Kind of soccer - flags and banners flying.:thmbup:

Kinda like the Little League World Series???