Which is more important...

[Putt for D'oh]

Wow. Not only do you have reading comprehension problem, you're just plain wrong. If I have a RHBH upshot under 200' that I don't want any fade on (such as a tunnel shot that curves to the right), I'll use my overstable Gator and put it on an anhyzer, flicking it at the end of my release for more spin. Doing that increases spin and ensures the gyroscopic stability necessary to hold it on the line I choose - in this case a curve to the right ending flat without fade. If the shot was exactly the same, but I needed the disc to come back left at the end with fade, I'd release at the same angle and speed, but no flick at the end - same shot, but less spin/gyroscopic stability so the disc comes back and fades left. If you can't control your shots like this, I'm very sorry.

Based on your description there is a good chance you are accelerating the disc and adding velocity to the throw, which is much bigger factor in flight stability.

 

[Shamis]

You can't really try to spin the disc more, except perhaps on weird up shots. You just throw it hard, and if you do it right it spins a lot.

 

[joecoin]

He just posts a lot of craziness re:discs flight.

You cant really control spin and trying to do so will not help any part of your game. ...

If you can't control spin then trying to do so will do nothing. Since you have no control over spin, every time you throw a given disc the spin will be the same. Throw as hard as you can, it'll spin at x rpm. Throw the same disc as soft as you can, same number of rpms.

Interesting concept.

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

Based on your description there is a good chance you are accelerating the disc and adding velocity to the throw, which is much bigger factor in flight stability.

The examples I gave were identical distance so, no, not increasing forward velocity. The only difference is the amount of spin. Also, velocity is definitely not the bigger factor in stability. Gyroscopic STABILITY comes from spin. As someone pointed out a disc thrown without spin is about as aerodynamic as a bundle of laundry.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

Gyroscopic stability and Stable / understable description of flight are totally differrent.

I forgot this was all covered and adamantly ignored in the stability two different things thread.

The gyroscopic stability once there is sufficient spin on the disc to stabilize nose angle relative to forward velocity has a very minimal impact on turn and glide. Maybe at unrealistic extremes of the spin to air speed ratio you could see something. But not on a golf throw.

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

The gyroscopic stability once there is sufficient spin on the disc to stabilize noseill angle relative to forward velocity has a very minimal impact on turn and glide. Maybe at unrealistic extremes of the spin to air speed ratio you could see something. But not on a golf throw.

Gyroscopic stability allows a disc to hold just about any orientation, not just nose angle. Throw an overstable disc on an anhyzer (RHBH) with insufficient spin and it's going to come back left almost immediately. Give it enough spin and it will hold that anhyzer angle longer, maybe even for its entire flight. Spin = gyroscopic stability = ability to hold orientation.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Wow. Not only do you have reading comprehension problem, you're just plain wrong. If I have a RHBH upshot under 200' that I don't want any fade on (such as a tunnel shot that curves to the right), I'll use my overstable Gator and put it on an anhyzer, flicking it at the end of my release for more spin. Doing that increases spin and ensures the gyroscopic stability necessary to hold it on the line I choose - in this case a curve to the right ending flat without fade. If the shot was exactly the same, but I needed the disc to come back left at the end with fade, I'd release at the same angle and speed, but no flick at the end - same shot, but less spin/gyroscopic stability so the disc comes back and fades left. If you can't control your shots like this, I'm very sorry.

Welp, like i said b4... Whateverz!

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Spin happens in a properly thrown disc. It cannot be induced other than in a touch shot - where you're snapping it like a beach lid.

If you're trying to spin a disc - there is absolutely no way to do so without messing up the fundamentals of a proper backhand drive.

Simply bringing the disc into the right pec with the hand on the outside and extending it forward so that you're ripping from the 4:00 position on the disc WILL spin and eject a disc with speed. It's that simple. Everything you do beyond that is creating more usable force to come through with more power.

Spin happens. It's not a goal... it happens.

I had a lesson yesterday with a new guy - who was extraordinarily dubious of my telling him that... he had his mind absolutely blown open when he did what I said and had a mid fly 250' with no step and no arm effort at all. Trust the magic of the hit to do the work.

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

Who said anything about only considering drives?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Dawg... Im trying to help' you are not controlling spin. I seriously thought this was true as well but we just cannot humanly do it.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Sitting here in the yard messing with "adding spin" and all these throws are spraying everywhere. When i focus on the line and mechanics the spin happens and discs go where i throw.

#whowuldathunkit

 

[TheBeardedFatGuy]

Dawg... Im trying to help' you are not controlling spin. I seriously thought this was true as well but we just cannot humanly do it.

And yet I do it multiple times every round. I couldn't shape shots around trees in some spots without adjusting the amount of spin. The fact you can't seem to understand my examples frankly baffles me. Do you have a flex shot in your bag of tricks? It totally depends on modulating spin to keep it from coming back too soon, or not a all. If I stand, say, 100' from my target and throw my overstable midrange three times on the same anhyzer line and at the same speed I can get three very different results depending on how much spin I impart. Very little spin and the disc comes back quickly and fades left. More spin and it holds the anhyzer longer and fades just a little. Give it even more spin and it never comes back.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

I seriously need a video of these three same throws with differing spin. For the life of me I just honesty cannot picture this.

 

[ToddL]

Seems like TheBeardedFatGuy has a good grasp on the physics of things, but I also doubt how much you're actually able to control the spin given the exact same release speed and angle. I'd be more inclined to believe that you're not releasing it with the same speed or on the same angle.

"More than any of the other factors, the proper use of controlled spin to help a disc turn over is the mark of an expert." From https://allthingsdiscgolf.com/mastering-turnover-shot-equal-parts-art-science/

From that article: "Have you heard of the term hyzer flip? It's basically the shot I'm describing, but thrown full power. The disc is thrown on a hyzer line but at a certain point the spin is too much for the disc, resulting in turnover."
100% wrong. (At least the part about "spin is too much, resulting in turnover.")

 

[John Q. Public]

IMO speed is more important for pure distance with high speed drivers. Spin is more important for glide with midrange and approach discs. Drivers make up for lack of spin with higher speeds. Midranges aren't meant for speed but need more spin to get that glide they need.

After working with HUBs wrist load idea, and seeing the results, I'd have to basically agree with this. Although putting more spin on a high speed driver makes 'em go boom more too.

I couldn't push my ESP Buzz past 300 feet until I worked the wrist load idea. I maxed 370 recently The only thing I changed was imparting more spin by loading the wrist more.

As far as using spin to shape shots, IDK, but it sounds logical. I'm not that good yet. Sounds like spin on a bowling ball or english on a cue ball to me.

 

[Nick481]

After working with HUBs wrist load idea, and seeing the results, I'd have to basically agree with this.

I couldn't push my ESP Buzz past 300 feet until I worked the wrist load idea. I maxed 370 recently The only thing I changed was imparting more spin by loading the wrist more.

As far as using spin to shape shots, IDK, but it sounds logical. I'm not that good yet. Sounds like spin on a bowling ball or english on a cue ball to me.

Its going farther now because your wrist load added velocity and spin, but the spin is a byproduct of better form and more power. Trying to add spin will do nothing for you. Improving form will, as you have seen yourself. I guarantee mcbeth or wysocki have never though of trying to throw with more "spin".

 

[John Q. Public]

Its going farther now because your wrist load added velocity and spin, but the spin is a byproduct of better form and more power. Trying to add spin will do nothing for you. Improving form will, as you have seen yourself. I guarantee mcbeth or wysocki have never though of trying to throw with more "spin".

You may very well be right! I thought of another example though: 2 baseballs would theoretically have the same 'speed' rating, but a 70 mph knuckle ball and a 70 mph 'fastball' would fly completely differently. Why? Spin?? (maybe )

 

[Nick481]

You may very well be right! I thought of another example though: 2 baseballs would theoretically have the same 'speed' rating, but a 70 mph knuckle ball and a 70 mph 'fastball' would fly completely differently. Why? Spin?? (maybe )

You are correct but that is because they are dealing with the Magnus effect with baseballs, not gyroscopic stabilization as with discs. I am just saying that form will improve speed and spin and ultimately distance, but adding only spin will just make a disc turn more and fade less without adding speed which is far more important.

 

[John Q. Public]

You are correct but that is because they are dealing with the Magnus effect with baseballs, not gyroscopic stabilization as with discs. I am just saying that form will improve speed and spin and ultimately distance, but adding only spin will just make a disc turn more and fade less without adding speed which is far more important.

I'm sorta picking up what you're putting down but isn't it possible my previous Buzzz throws were more like knucklers and my current Buzzz throws are more like fastballs? Same power imparted but the latter throws are now more aerodynamic because of the spin??

 

[John Q. Public]

Ahhh, maybe you're saying I am spinning it more but I'm also throwing it more powerfully with the form tweak. Quite possible.