Why the Beato drill is so important.

[kmatt333]

I think this drill is far better than the Beto drill

Yes!

That drill was recommended to me in my form check thread. It's helped me more than anything else I've tried to date--my power and accuracy have gone up noticeably and it's taken the strain off of my right knee (no more post round pain).

I'm definitely a novice at the golf swing, but it looks like maybe this and the Beto can work together...once you've got the lower body motion of SW's drill, add the Beto for the upper body?

 

[Twistedhorse]

I slowed it down and took a long look. To my eyes... and I could be wrong, but it appears you are getting zero wrist lever action which will take off a ton..of...distance...potential.

Thanks, no idea how to get any wrist lever action

do you have any tips?

 

[Twistedhorse]

Lol the music. You guys aren't moving into the front leg from behind properly, you have no hip hinge or rotation on the front thigh or pendulum swing of the shoulder. You just stand/extend straight up, note how you both get taller during the throw and both feet flatter on the ground, instead of the torso going into a tilted spiral swinging the shoulder in a pendulum with rear leg counter balance. Note how Dan's left foot is almost kicking his right hand and the torso is rotating thru on a tilted spiral hinged on the front leg like bowling.

I never really got the Right Pec Drill, I think starting from holding a static position doesn't help as much as having more free wheeling motion and a little chaos. I had more success letting the arm hang and swing freely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlyD1ynQrh4#t=3m26s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=1m14s

Thanks!

I'll try the one leg drill and see if that is something that feels more natural.
Yes, It feels like I get 0 power from the beto drill, probably a sign that I don't sure my lower body at all

 

[DiscFifty]

Thanks, no idea how to get any wrist lever action

do you have any tips?

It's definitely hard to explain, but at the least, just visualize the wrist being the last part of a long whip, that gets "snapped". While not exactly recommended by everyone, you can practice to get the feel of the wrist snap/whip by coiling your wrist in right before you eject the disc. The wrist should open passively (on it's own) it's not a forced motion. Eventually this will happen without even thinking about it. As you progress you might notice inconsistent distances, accuracy, etc, but it will eventually click, you just have to keep putting in the time.

 

[Twistedhorse]

People usually ignore that big shoulder turn when they try out the beto drill, they just try to pop it from their pec by opening their arm. It´s the body that powers the whip in beto drill. Something also to be noted that there is a small backswing. So you could actually call it a bent arm swing instead a right pec drill.

I hear so much about collapsed shoulder, collapsed frame and open shoulder not really when you are supposed to open up the shoulder, or really what an open shoulder means?

 

[Twistedhorse]

It's definitely hard to explain, but at the least, just visualize the wrist being the last part of a long whip, that gets "snapped". While not exactly recommended by everyone, you can practice to get the feel of the wrist snap/whip by coiling your wrist in right before you eject the disc. The wrist should open passively (on it's own) it's not a forced motion. Eventually this will happen without even thinking about it. As you progress you might notice inconsistent distances, accuracy, etc, but it will eventually click, you just have to keep putting in the time.

Is that what gibson does coil his wrist?

 

[Twistedhorse]

I hear so much about collapsed shoulder, collapsed frame and open shoulder not really when you are supposed to open up the shoulder, or really what an open shoulder means?

or PM

 

[RandyC]

I hear so much about collapsed shoulder, collapsed frame and open shoulder not really when you are supposed to open up the shoulder, or really what an open shoulder means?

most of your questions make me think that you are trying to manipulate every aspect of the swing and you are trying to build the throw that way. It really does not work like that, you can try the same approach to something you can already do and you will most likely fail. Say walking, lift your leg, shift your weight, bend your knee, land on heel etc it suddenly becomes really hard to do. Let me ask you this, when hammering a nail, when do you activate your wrist or do you just hit the nail and dont even think about the wrist?

Collapsed frame usually means that your body is in the way of the swing, I suggest watching some Shawn Clement videos, he does a good job explaining it.

 

[Twistedhorse]

most of your questions make me think that you are trying to manipulate every aspect of the swing and you are trying to build the throw that way. It really does not work like that, you can try the same approach to something you can already do and you will most likely fail. Say walking, lift your leg, shift your weight, bend your knee, land on heel etc it suddenly becomes really hard to do. Let me ask you this, when hammering a nail, when do you activate your wrist or do you just hit the nail and dont even think about the wrist?

Collapsed frame usually means that your body is in the way of the swing, I suggest watching some Shawn Clement videos, he does a good job explaining it.

I don't really think that much about the wrist at all when hammering a nail. Right now I'm mostly focusing on not leaning back in my throws, not sure if it's the correct way to go, but it feels like it's something that I can work on without getting too frustrated with thinking about how I should hold my hand at a certain degree at that and this millisecond and not opening the shoulder or having a rubber arm using hips etc.. It all becomes a complete mess, so right now I'm mostly trying to focus on walking around the disc and not reaching back like I usually do, not sure if it will add any distance or not we will see. It's easy to get stuck on some details that I might think that matters a lot "the hit" "snap" "rubber arm" etc etc, but I'm guessing it's all a chain reaction if I mess up my reach back that probably messes up with something else, like for some reason when I reach back I keep wanting to shrug right shoulder upwards when i bring my left arm in front of my body not sure why maybe i push it to hard down and it makes my shoulders uneaven..

 

[RowingBoats]

I don't really think that much about the wrist at all when hammering a nail.

This is the point he was making. Drills are great for isolating aspects of the swing to develop a general feel for what you are trying to do, but you cannot consciously orchestrate an actual swing by thinking of it as a series of poses or drills.

Once you have absorbed enough of the knowledge here, on youtube, etc...you have to personalize the concepts. You have to relegate a lot of this to the subconscious mind, and find a more simplified aspect of the movement to wrap around it all. At least, this is what I have to do.

People say things like 'feel the heavy disc', 'leverage the back of the disc', etc...and this, for me, is what I actually think during a swing. If I can feel, really feel, the weight of the disc, it keeps the entire sequence intact. Just from reading your posts, it seems like this might be worth exploring.

 

[Twistedhorse]

This is the point he was making. Drills are great for isolating aspects of the swing to develop a general feel for what you are trying to do, but you cannot consciously orchestrate an actual swing by thinking of it as a series of poses or drills.

Once you have absorbed enough of the knowledge here, on youtube, etc...you have to personalize the concepts. You have to relegate a lot of this to the subconscious mind, and find a more simplified aspect of the movement to wrap around it all. At least, this is what I have to do.

People say things like 'feel the heavy disc', 'leverage the back of the disc', etc...and this, for me, is what I actually think during a swing. If I can feel, really feel, the weight of the disc, it keeps the entire sequence intact. Just from reading your posts, it seems like this might be worth exploring.

Never felt my disc to be heavy or any leverage, so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, tried the loopghost bottle drill several times, and other drills, but to no avail I used to throw a discus, but the disc is way heavier like 4 pounds, so it was way easier to feel the weight of it to me same with javelin and shot put, but with disc golf, for some reason I don't get any heavy disc feeling, can't find any leverage. Anyway thanks for the help I'll keep on chasing the heavy disc feeling.

 

[RowingBoats]

Never felt my disc to be heavy or any leverage, so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, tried the loopghost bottle drill several times, and other drills, but to no avail I used to throw a discus, but the disc is way heavier like 4 pounds, so it was way easier to feel the weight of it to me same with javelin and shot put, but with disc golf, for some reason I don't get any heavy disc feeling, can't find any leverage. Anyway thanks for the help I'll keep on chasing the heavy disc feeling.

Slow way down. Way down. And then slow down some more.

If the water bottle drill is still a mysterious concept, that is a big gap in the way you are visualizing things from my perspective. If I asked you to throw a disc with 100% freedom to move your wrist actively, but otherwise moving as little as possible, I believe you would do the water bottle thing. Then, with those same limitations, if you tried to add to that action by moving your lower body a bit, rotating your torso a bit, what would you do?

All of this ties together, so I am not taking sides in the kind of silly snap vs full body movement debate that seems to crop up from time to time here, but if one of those aspects is entirely out of whack, the whole swing is cooked before it begins.

 

[seedlings]

Dan updated his pec drill video:

 

[JimmyBlundell]

I'm getting a 404 error on this, what's the drill / video you're referencing?

 

[Brychanus]

Never felt my disc to be heavy or any leverage, so I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, tried the loopghost bottle drill several times, and other drills, but to no avail I used to throw a discus, but the disc is way heavier like 4 pounds, so it was way easier to feel the weight of it to me same with javelin and shot put, but with disc golf, for some reason I don't get any heavy disc feeling, can't find any leverage. Anyway thanks for the help I'll keep on chasing the heavy disc feeling.

Think of your heaving your *arm* back more and "let its weight go" into the backswing before you plant/shift forward.

 

[RowingBoats]

I have come around to seeing why this drill, in concept, might be the one of the ultimate ways to correct fundamental misunderstandings about a backhand swing. It is also one of the ultimate ways to obtain fundamental misunderstandings about the swing, though.

Starting at the right pec seems like the biggest hurdle. I understand the feeling, and even still, without some mobility in the arm it can be difficult to capture the hit from this position if you don't realize the other movement he is doing.

If this drill is completely opaque to you still, Im curious if taking 'start from the hit' even MORE literally might help solidify the goal.

Try standing in a slightly closed stance, with your arm held out straight at about 11 o'clock to the target, where you ideally release an actual throw. You will have to keep the arm rigid for this part, but release the wrist. Use just your lower body to shift weight until you can make your wrist rock back and forth rhythmically, making you look like some kind of deranged jazz fan snapping to a beat.

Slowly start to release your forearm, but continue to artificially stop everything at the 11 o'clock. Just play with this, and do it gently, the goal is absolutely NOT power, it is purely to feel how you can power the arm through these positions with weight shifting as the primary engine. It won't be pretty, and its not the goal to be pretty. The goal is only to find rhythm that starts to cause the shapes that are involved in the swing. I find that doing this seems like I start to make gradually larger figure 8's. This is the hidden magic of why the drill looks easy when Beato does it, and why it seems useless when lots of us do it for the first time.

Keep playing with this until the figure 8 is big enough to get your hand near the right pec ( this is not an absolute position, go with what your body wants to do somewhat ). Keep sending the arm back out to the 11 o'clock GENTLY. I don't want anyone to hyperextend an elbow trying this, I seriously mean to do this at a speed/power that would throw a disc 15 feet. Sending the arm to this 11 o'clock position is going to remove the tendency to 'spin out', and force you to 'shift from behind'. If you don't start shifting from behind, you will likely find yourself sending your arm to 12 o'clock or worse.

Play with your front leg, and feel how extending it juices up sending your arm to the 11 o'clock position. Again, slowly, but try to feel this, don't rush through and try to throw anything, just play with the feeling.

When you think you actually can feel what I am talking about, do a few of these slowly, then ALSO SLOWLY, but with a little bit more power, do the same motion and allow your arm to follow through completely. Don't stop it at 11 o'clock, but keep that position as the target of your momentum with the arm.

This might be too cryptic to help and might need a video or something, I just feel like once you 'get' the hit, so many things fix themselves. The timing becomes a natural feeling movement, instead of a series of poses that you are trying to manipulate consciously.

 

[RowingBoats]

Think of your heaving your *arm* back more and "let its weight go" into the backswing before you plant/shift forward.

I think this is a short version of what I just verbosely tried to state lol.

 

[Sheep]

I have come around to seeing why this drill, in concept, might be the one of the ultimate ways to correct fundamental misunderstandings about a backhand swing. It is also one of the ultimate ways to obtain fundamental misunderstandings about the swing, though.

Starting at the right pec seems like the biggest hurdle. I understand the feeling, and even still, without some mobility in the arm it can be difficult to capture the hit from this position if you don't realize the other movement he is doing.

If this drill is completely opaque to you still, Im curious if taking 'start from the hit' even MORE literally might help solidify the goal.

Try standing in a slightly closed stance, with your arm held out straight at about 11 o'clock to the target, where you ideally release an actual throw. You will have to keep the arm rigid for this part, but release the wrist. Use just your lower body to shift weight until you can make your wrist rock back and forth rhythmically, making you look like some kind of deranged jazz fan snapping to a beat.

Slowly start to release your forearm, but continue to artificially stop everything at the 11 o'clock. Just play with this, and do it gently, the goal is absolutely NOT power, it is purely to feel how you can power the arm through these positions with weight shifting as the primary engine. It won't be pretty, and its not the goal to be pretty. The goal is only to find rhythm that starts to cause the shapes that are involved in the swing. I find that doing this seems like I start to make gradually larger figure 8's. This is the hidden magic of why the drill looks easy when Beato does it, and why it seems useless when lots of us do it for the first time.

Keep playing with this until the figure 8 is big enough to get your hand near the right pec ( this is not an absolute position, go with what your body wants to do somewhat ). Keep sending the arm back out to the 11 o'clock GENTLY. I don't want anyone to hyperextend an elbow trying this, I seriously mean to do this at a speed/power that would throw a disc 15 feet. Sending the arm to this 11 o'clock position is going to remove the tendency to 'spin out', and force you to 'shift from behind'. If you don't start shifting from behind, you will likely find yourself sending your arm to 12 o'clock or worse.

Play with your front leg, and feel how extending it juices up sending your arm to the 11 o'clock position. Again, slowly, but try to feel this, don't rush through and try to throw anything, just play with the feeling.

When you think you actually can feel what I am talking about, do a few of these slowly, then ALSO SLOWLY, but with a little bit more power, do the same motion and allow your arm to follow through completely. Don't stop it at 11 o'clock, but keep that position as the target of your momentum with the arm.

This might be too cryptic to help and might need a video or something, I just feel like once you 'get' the hit, so many things fix themselves. The timing becomes a natural feeling movement, instead of a series of poses that you are trying to manipulate consciously.

I see somebody bumped in a new version of him doing the drill. I'll have to check that one out.

The biggest issue I've always had with this drill is that if you do not do the drill properly with the proper understanding of HOW and WHY to do the drill, it will actually hurt your game in the long run as it will teach you to muscle the disc.

I tried to make a video on it a while ago, but I wasn't very happy with how it came out. I think I took it down, I don't remember.

I watched simon and paul essentially do this, but they were no effort throwing 200 feet. and I'm like. "I think I got this"
And the key with the drill is learning to flop your arm out with your body, not with your arm.
And most people I see with this drill is them trying to throw it with their arm only.

Ehh. I'll re-watch it and see if I can give myself a better refresher on it.

 

[RowingBoats]

I see somebody bumped in a new version of him doing the drill. I'll have to check that one out.

The biggest issue I've always had with this drill is that if you do not do the drill properly with the proper understanding of HOW and WHY to do the drill, it will actually hurt your game in the long run as it will teach you to muscle the disc.

I tried to make a video on it a while ago, but I wasn't very happy with how it came out. I think I took it down, I don't remember.

I watched simon and paul essentially do this, but they were no effort throwing 200 feet. and I'm like. "I think I got this"
And the key with the drill is learning to flop your arm out with your body, not with your arm.
And most people I see with this drill is them trying to throw it with their arm only.

Ehh. I'll re-watch it and see if I can give myself a better refresher on it.

Yep, I 100% get it. My attempt to get around that barrier might be ineffective, I just like to stand around and play with these concepts and thought it might help someone lol.

What I tried to write might just be cryptic and unhelpful, it's impossible to actually remove data from the mind and know if this would have helped me, but the point is basically to remove the concept of 'using the arm' by starting from a place where that isn't even possible.

If someone had worked with me in person, and somehow got me to feel the hit, it would have saved me a lot of time lol.

 

[jupiterboy]

Got a friend to film me from the back recently and I felt like I was rounding slightly, so I've reworked since. In this video it does look like a little rounding? I'm asking because I've seem extreme examples, but may be misrepresenting what I'm seeing.