Why the Beato drill is so important.

[sidewinder22]

I have working on my throw and it's getting better thanks HUBs! I Was wondering at what point should your hips start to open up? Before or after arm extension? Can't seem to get that part of the timing down

After weight transfer, before arm extension.

 

[The Last DJ]

So I watched the video after not reviewing it for quite some time. How far would you guys suggest throwing mids until incorporating the reach-back? The OP mentioned using a target that's 100' out. Would that be a good way to set up this drill?

 

[Dan Ensor]

I'd suggest doing the drill like Dan says. Do 10-20 from each position, adding more and more every time. This isn't a "discing down" or "putter only round" type of drill. It's more like a warm-up/getting the feel drill that's going to do more good for you doing it 100 times daily than 5000 times in one day.

It's all about a strong hit and working more into your throw while keeping that hit. In an article by Blake T, he says "Just add 1" reachback at a time to see where your speed/snap is optimized" (not talking about this drill, or any drill). I look at the pec drill similarly. Add parts, but keep the basics.

Get it feeling right before you start adding, though. Or "most right".

 

[The Last DJ]

^ Thanks, I've been working on the backhand quite a bit lately to try and get it to match my forehand. These boards are really helping out! About how far should I be throwing mids from a standstill before incorporating the x-step?

 

[Mike Schlimgen]

I am a newbie when it comes to DG, however, I have been a long time ball golfer (5 handicap at my peak) and I see many parallels between the games. To me, this concept is very similar to creating lag in your golf swing. If you "cast" the club early, you are releasing most of the energy before you can really use it. Sergio Garcia is one of the best at doing this, which is what makes him one of the bigger hitters on tour at a relatively small stature. I can see where this would be similar to DG. I know for a fact that I am not doing this part correctly. I do not bring the disc back towards my body like the video shows, nor do I store as much of the wrist lag until the very end like I should. I can't wait to try it tonight in the field to see if I can duplicate it.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

There's really 2 worlds for this drill that teach 2 different things: Dan's way is to show where the pulling gets to start, which is at the right pec - and in the video he's blasting those shots.

My world: I couldn't blast it. It was seemingly impossible. Slowed it down to the point in the original video I posted, and that's where I felt the levering action. You are just swinging the door open and pivoting the disc out and from the right pec - you can very easy float a Mako 200'.

My point was that at no point do you want to feel like you are using muscle to throw the disc. The point of the drill is, at least in my view, to force yourself how to feel the levers of your arm collapse into the right pec position and then extend forward.

That was the turning point for me, where I started to experience the loading wrist and holding the disc much later and by a result of that, more forward in my extension. By building on that mechanism, you have a baseline for everything before it.

Am I doing stuff that helps that mechanism? Much talk recently of shoulder lag and a pause, I think has been around this concept.

I think of the right pec position as being a sliding shelf that starts out extended (open) and we brace our weight which slides the shelf into the closed position.

From that closed position (right pec), the disc changes direction a bit as it begins the arc. The wrist loads even more and at this point the shoulders CAN* start opening.

*This happens so fast that it's very confusing to try to make it happen - but you will see lots of players with immaculate form use the shoulder rotation to speed up the pulling around the nose of the disc. You certainly can throw without the shoulder rotation, SW22 does as do many players who have a stockier build (like my buddy Ryan, who I post videos of).

Simon and Eagle (below) start timing things to use that shoulder rotation to pull around the disc.





So ultimately the shoulder is either going to contribute to pulling around the nose or that the shoulder is going to be aimed at the target through the extension more static.

 

[TalbotTrojan]

There's really 2 worlds for this drill that teach 2 different things: Dan's way is to show where the pulling gets to start, which is at the right pec - and in the video he's blasting those shots.

My world: I couldn't blast it. It was seemingly impossible. Slowed it down to the point in the original video I posted, and that's where I felt the levering action. You are just swinging the door open and pivoting the disc out and from the right pec - you can very easy float a Mako 200'.

My point was that at no point do you want to feel like you are using muscle to throw the disc. The point of the drill is, at least in my view, to force yourself how to feel the levers of your arm collapse into the right pec position and then extend forward.

That was the turning point for me, where I started to experience the loading wrist and holding the disc much later and by a result of that, more forward in my extension. By building on that mechanism, you have a baseline for everything before it.

Am I doing stuff that helps that mechanism? Much talk recently of shoulder lag and a pause, I think has been around this concept.

I think of the right pec position as being a sliding shelf that starts out extended (open) and we brace our weight which slides the shelf into the closed position.

From that closed position (right pec), the disc changes direction a bit as it begins the arc. The wrist loads even more and at this point the shoulders CAN* start opening.

*This happens so fast that it's very confusing to try to make it happen - but you will see lots of players with immaculate form use the shoulder rotation to speed up the pulling around the nose of the disc. You certainly can throw without the shoulder rotation, SW22 does as do many players who have a stockier build (like my buddy Ryan, who I post videos of).

Simon and Eagle (below) start timing things to use that shoulder rotation to pull around the disc.





So ultimately the shoulder is either going to contribute to pulling around the nose or that the shoulder is going to be aimed at the target through the extension more static.

Love the videos of all the Colorado locals.

 

[rhatton1]

From that closed position (right pec), the disc changes direction a bit as it begins the arc. The wrist loads even more and at this point the shoulders CAN* start opening.

*This happens so fast that it's very confusing to try to make it happen - but you will see lots of players with immaculate form use the shoulder rotation to speed up the pulling around the nose of the disc. You certainly can throw without the shoulder rotation, SW22 does as do many players who have a stockier build (like my buddy Ryan, who I post videos of).

Simon and Eagle (below) start timing things to use that shoulder rotation to pull around the disc.

This is a very good point. In my mind there has always been a benefit to the shoulders helping to pull the disc around, but as always there are those that do things differently and there are a number of different techniques out there. What is the same in all good forms (that I can think of) though is the shoulders stay closed until the disc is into the power pocket.

 

[bfowler]

The longest drive I've ever had was a full grip lock that I timed my shoulder rotation perfectly. I was messing around with using my torso/shoulder to pull the arm and focusing on nothing but that. It was so fast and the disc went about 450. I've never even hit 400 before or since. My 2nd best distance is about 380.

 

[EvanKRob]

There's really 2 worlds for this drill that teach 2 different things: Dan's way is to show where the pulling gets to start, which is at the right pec - and in the video he's blasting those shots.

My world: I couldn't blast it. It was seemingly impossible. Slowed it down to the point in the original video I posted, and that's where I felt the levering action. You are just swinging the door open and pivoting the disc out and from the right pec - you can very easy float a Mako 200'.

My point was that at no point do you want to feel like you are using muscle to throw the disc. The point of the drill is, at least in my view, to force yourself how to feel the levers of your arm collapse into the right pec position and then extend forward.

That was the turning point for me, where I started to experience the loading wrist and holding the disc much later and by a result of that, more forward in my extension. By building on that mechanism, you have a baseline for everything before it.

yep, i had the revelation the last few days. SLOOOOOOOW down to a point where I felt like the disc wouldn't go anywhere and it flys as far if not farther then when I was trying to muscle one.

 

[46YearOldSlinger]

This is without a doubt the best thread ever. A couple of month ago I made some big progress just watching the first video and focusing on pulling tight, pulling light and leveraging - great stuff. I had another revelation today when one of my buddies (course guru) pointed out that my footwork was inconsistent and wanted me to throw from a standstill. He's told me this several times but I'm a stubborn SOB and just didn't want to give up my x step. In my head I just knew this extra momentum was helping. Guess what - it wasn't. I finally agree to play an entire round without any run up or x step and I literally shot the best round of my life. When I stand still I can really feel the tucking of the disc into the pocket and the inward wrist bend that gives that bit of spring on release. I was throwing just as far as with the x step but with more consistency - F'n A! All of this has been said before in this thread but just in case your a stubborn SOB like me I'll say it one more time. Watch the first video in the thread over and over and over and drop the run up. Just focus on the inward pull that flexes the wrist inward towards the armpit then rip. Yeah, I know this is not news - I'm just so excited about progress I had to comment.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Great stuff slinger! I am so glad you are making progress and that you had somebody badger you into the non-step round.

I wish I could take credit, but the reality is that the work you do in the field, on the course, in the office (door closed!), around the house, back yard, front yard, pumping gas, and laying in bed thinking about it... That's something you get to take credit for.

I know the work is torture. I know you guys probably hate me, sw22, and the others who point out the details that you were sure you finally fixed... I hated seeing myself still doing things wrong.

But somehow the magic unfolds if you work and then suddenly it's second nature and you realize that you can overthrow the basket you could never reach.

 

[TAFL]

That video helped a great deal.

When I began playing this silly game, I threw underhand (the same motion as bowling). That's how I'd always thrown Frisbees, and as I began playing the game throwing 163g Wham-Os, it was what I was doing. Bought my first disc (an XD) and was throwing it underhand. Decided I needed to learn to throw backhand and asked for pointers from guys I threw with. I never had a long arm backhand, even then when I was young and in good shape.

I'm now in a position where I've not played much in several years and have recently gotten active playing again...as an old, fat guy. I decided to research driving techniques to figure out what to work on and have found that much of what I was told simply wasn't very good advice. D'oh! I found the Beto video and yet didn't have all the details in my head. This video explained what I was missing from that.

So now I think I'm going to add some days of field work with my full stack of extra drivers and this drill. Going to play a short local course with just my Aero and throw every shot from standstill. Gotta work out the technique and train the muscles to get the hell out of the way of the lever action.

 

[Twistedhorse]

I did the Beato drill when I was starting to try to learn to drive. It was hard, it felt strange, I didn't really learn to throw past 150' and I didn't fully grasp WHY this drill mattered.

If you're retooling / learning... I can't stress it enough: work the drill, I'd probably not have NEARLY the amount of issues to fix if I had stayed on it.

I know it sucks to toss a wounded duck... and to be honest, it's a little bit confusing the way Dan just RIIIPPPPS it from his chest, but when you're learning the drill, it's slow, slow, open, just getting the hand to actually guide the disc to the chest and end up on the outside with the elbow driven out front.

I think is much easier learning the beato drill on a 100' approach shot, where it's more about properly guiding the disc in, than shooting for big acceleration, that inevitably leads back to strong arming or early opening, both of which I struggle with still.

And here's the thing... the fractions of a second where your hand stays on the outside of the disc, they matter very much. By waiting with the hand on the outside to the latest spot you can, you're saying that your hand will have to travel further around the outside of the disc. And to go that distance in the same amount of time, your hand will have to speed up.

That's the funny thing about hand speed... it's the speed of the hand travelling about 10" - and coming in too fast to the start of that race might mean that you might lose all that race track!

I've tried the beto drill for 2months now at least 30mins 1 hour each day, never had any success with it, can reach about 40-90feet max with it. What am I doing wrong? I don't feel any leverage or "hit" I attached a video

I seem to be able to hold on to the disc even with 1 finger if I want to. I don't get the disc to rip out of my hand without me opening up my hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVU4Li36820&feature=youtu.be

 

[sidewinder22]

Lol the music. You guys aren't moving into the front leg from behind properly, you have no hip hinge or rotation on the front thigh or pendulum swing of the shoulder. You just stand/extend straight up, note how you both get taller during the throw and both feet flatter on the ground, instead of the torso going into a tilted spiral swinging the shoulder in a pendulum with rear leg counter balance. Note how Dan's left foot is almost kicking his right hand and the torso is rotating thru on a tilted spiral hinged on the front leg like bowling.

I never really got the Right Pec Drill, I think starting from holding a static position doesn't help as much as having more free wheeling motion and a little chaos. I had more success letting the arm hang and swing freely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlyD1ynQrh4#t=3m26s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=1m14s

 

[RandyC]

People usually ignore that big shoulder turn when they try out the beto drill, they just try to pop it from their pec by opening their arm. It´s the body that powers the whip in beto drill. Something also to be noted that there is a small backswing. So you could actually call it a bent arm swing instead a right pec drill.

 

[DiscFifty]

I've tried the beto drill for 2months now at least 30mins 1 hour each day, never had any success with it, can reach about 40-90feet max with it. What am I doing wrong? I don't feel any leverage or "hit"....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVU4Li36820&feature=youtu.be

I slowed it down and took a long look. To my eyes... and I could be wrong, but it appears you are getting zero wrist lever action which will take off a ton..of...distance...potential.

 

[RowingBoats]

People usually ignore that big shoulder turn when they try out the beto drill, they just try to pop it from their pec by opening their arm. It´s the body that powers the whip in beto drill. Something also to be noted that there is a small backswing. So you could actually call it a bent arm swing instead a right pec drill.

Yes, and if you do look at the drill and pick up on that movement, you don't really need the drill in my opinion. The Beato drill feels like something that seemed like a good idea to someone who already knew the feel of the backhand, but in reality causes more problems than it solves for it's intended audience.

The one-leg drill is a much better early drill from my experience.

 

[kmatt333]

People usually ignore that big shoulder turn when they try out the beto drill, they just try to pop it from their pec by opening their arm. It´s the body that powers the whip in beto drill. Something also to be noted that there is a small backswing. So you could actually call it a bent arm swing instead a right pec drill.

I gave up on the Beato a while back because it wasn't working for me. I didn't know why but you just nailed it...I was focusing ONLY on my right arm. Now, watching it, I see the swim move with the off arm using the shoulders for leverage. Crazy.

(BTW, thanks for your beginner series on the Disc Golf Finland channel. You've got a knack for simplifying things)

 

[azplaya25]

I think this drill is far better than the Beto drill