Why THIS is better than THAT.

[DarwinDave]

A thorough thought process on putting technique

I'd like to take a crack at an article on putting theory if you will, and maybe help some of you out there shake things up a bit.

If you're like i was at one point, while asking for advice and browsing these forums or endlessly streaming youtube clinics, people telling you 'it's all mental' and 'everyone's style is different, so find what works for you' probably just pisses you off lol. They're right, but it might just not be connecting. A bit like telling someone with anger management issues to calm down in the middle of a rager, or telling someone who just lost a love one 'i know how it feels'. The response is probably going to be more anger, and 'no, you haven't'. Everyone is unique.

So here's a few random thoughts for you, that hopefully differ from others and make some sort of connection… I'm not the greatest of disc golfers, not even by a long shot, but no one has been able to fairly accuse me of being a bad putter for years now, and these are what I believe to be the reasons and thought processes that got me there. I honestly can't remember the last time inside of 40 feet that I haven't at least hit metal, or that anything inside the circle even made me remotely nervous.

It's ok, it's the internet. You're not supposed to believe what I just said anyway.

1. Even in putting, acceleration through the shot matters. Now please note, that I'm not saying that you have to have a long, beautiful, picture perfect arm stretched directly to the basket. Look at the footage from the Glass Blown Open that Cam Todd won. His putting stroke is more like a quick jab performed by the stubby arms of a T-Rex, but it gives him enough 'pop' to be consistent, especially under pressure. To use an overused word in disc golf, but in another way that might click, something that is currently accelerating is stable. On the opposite end of the thought, an object that is decelerating (slowing down) is UNstable. You can think about this with driving a car as an example. Is it easier to drive on a straight line while your speeding up, or slamming on the brakes? If you're slowing down, its harder to stay on a stable line from point A to point B. Finding a putting style that you can repeat on a regular basis that undoubtedly accelerates the disc throughout the release will have your putter staying on a straighter line, and more often.

2. Speaking of straighter lines, ever heard the phrase, "The shortest path between two point is a straight line?" Let's avoid the quantum physics time travel sci-fi argument and take that as truth for now. Much the same way a bullet out of a rifle loses accuracy the longer it goes, the key to accuracy in shooting is the initial velocity. Imagine a circle in front of the basket, or a target like you would use at a shooting range. Now pretend that your shot will, 100% of the time, hit within that circle, but has the exact same chances of hitting directly on the crosshairs as it does the edge of the circle. Obviously, you want that circle to be as small as possible. My argument is that always putting at a hyzer angle, where you have to factor in a bit of side to side action, or putting with a lot of height on a softer style of putt, INCREASES that target circle.

3. PUTT IT FLAT. It's basic aerodynamics that a disc perfectly level with the ground is least affected by the wind. Check out Vortica Disc Golf's blogs for more on this-- I'll steal a snippet from it for now.

To help visualize this point, you first have to understand how the wind works. It's an accurate way to look at wind flow as the same way water in a river flows. Or if it helps you more, imagine something like a dam breaking and the water coming through. Even through the hills and valleys it would flow through, the water is trying to get forward and out, but always attempting to move parallel with the ground surface. (It's why a basket placed on a sharp ridge or mound can be absolutely brutal on a windy day... no matter what direction you're putting to it, air is pushing up from under the disc, causing all sorts of mayhem and score sabotage).

Now, take a disc and hold it directly flat and horizontal to the ground, and hold it at eye level, until all you can see is the rim. No flight plate should be viewable, or any of the underside of the disc either. Shouldn't be able to see the bottom of the lip on the back side of the disc either, unless your putter is warped, and if that's the case, you need new putters The point is, when the putter is launched flat, you're MINIMIZING THE SURFACE AREA THAT THE WIND CAN AFFECT.

4. I'm sure I'll get some arguments from this next statement by more than a few nose down and/or hyzer putter players, but here it goes-- To MAXIMIZE your chances of the disc hitting chains and going in, YOU MUST AIM FOR THE CENTER AND TRY AND HIT IT AS FLAT AND LEVEL AS POSSIBLE. Now, obviously, past a certain distance, any putter will begin to lose enough speed to tail out, but the goal should be to maximize the range you can putt and keep it level on it's entire flight as much as possible. The more acceleration into and through the putt you can muster, the straighter and laser-like your putter's flight will be.

5. So how do we generate this power that transfers into precision? You may think that with the Cam Todd reference above and all this talk of flat and straight lines that I'm going to advocate for a lot of wrist and a spin putt motion… NOT THE CASE!

You have to realize the importance of bigger muscles versus smaller ones when it comes to athletics and human anatomy. A motion with any part of the body will ALWAYS BE EASIER TO REPEAT if you're using the big muscles instead of the small ones. The power must come from your legs and your weight transfer, and the two are infinitely intertwined. The glutes, hamstrings and calves are some of the biggest muscles in your body, and your hands are full of numerous tiny ones. Also important to realize is that when it comes to nerves and playing under pressure, the small, twitchy muscles in your hands are the first to be affected! Ricky Wysocki is obviously our prime example here, with that massive rock backwards and low center of gravity at the furthest back part of his reachback. All his power comes from the rear foot pressing into the ground, causing a powerful ripple effect of energy transfer from the ground up, and into the weight shift, that transfers into a straight pendulum type arm motion, causing a massive amount of acceleration into the disc. You'll also notice his relatively quick release for such a big move…. Almost as if his disc goes from 0 to 100% speed in about 6 inches of actual arm movement. This creates that powerful speed, and you'll constantly see him drill 60 to 70 footers with a line drive that barely gets above the top band on the basket. EVEN WHEN HE MISSES, HE CAN CONFIDENTLY BE AGGRESSIVE, BECAUSE HIS TARGET AREA IS SO SMALL THAT HE'LL AT LEAST HIT METAL.

This leads me to the greatest benefit of all ...
WHEN YOU'RE ABLE TO PERFORM THIS STYLE OF AGGRESSION WELL ENOUGH TO START AT LEAST HITTING METAL NEARLY EVERY TIME, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BLOWING IT BY THE BASKET!!!! Giving a shot a 'half-go' or 'half-run' is terrible course management. Much like the ball golf adage that says, 'you miss 100% of the putts you leave short." Any good golfer knows that this game is all about maximizing your percentages. If you shouldn't be running it, then a half-run is just pitiful shot selection, and you need to be attempting to leave your shot directly under the basket. Does Ricky make every circle 2 putt? Of course not, although some days it might seem like it. The true advantage in the aggressive line drive putt is that over 18 holes, those seemingly small percentage chances on long putts add up when compared to the soft half-go mentality, and that equals multiple strokes the people too scared and soft to run equals multiple birdies they had a zero percent chance in getting, all while not increasing his chance to 3 putt at all!

 

[DarwinDave]

Part 2:

6. RHYTHM AND THE IMPORTANCE OF BREATHING CONTROL. We all want to putt with the success of Ricky, that's obvious, but to be fair, most casual/intermediate/advanced simply aren't going to be comfortable going that low and weighted back. I know I can't. It feels powerful to do it, but after a dozen or so practice putts, the leg, knee and ankle can get tired quickly, and stressed and strained muscles don't repeat actions well and definitely don't do as well under stressful moments trying to make important putts. I can't recall which professional ball golfer I once read this about in GolfDigest, but he was asked about a sudden change to a longer shafted putter. "I grew up with a shorter standard size, and played all of my career with one, but it got to the point that i couldn't be on the practice green for more than 20 minutes without my lower back acting up due to having to bend at the waste more. The inconvenience of having to relearn with a longer putter was nothing compared to the value of being able to practice for hours on end."

Here's how you can emulate it and still build around what's comfortable to you. To work on any putting routine, you need to be able to create a mental and physical trigger, same as any athletic movement requiring solid, repeatable actions. Free throw shooters in basketball are a wonderful example. You'll never see a high-percentage shooter stand there with the knees locked, using only their arms, and you'll never see them inhale right as they shoot. Always an exhale, much the same way you see a power lifter suck in a massive breath on the barbell's way down on a bench press and then exhale forcefully once they start to lunge the weight up. Developing a simple, but repeatable rhythm that is tied into a breathing pattern is PARAMOUNT.

Here's mine, which I hope you can take some pointers from. It's a simple three count as follows:

To start, I'm consciously getting good, deep, slow breaths all the way up to and while examining the conditions, my lie, footing, and the wind. I'm also doing my best self check on the body to release as much tension as i can. Tension is an absolute death sentence in competition. You can't always negate it, the same way it's impossible to avoid nerves in a tournament or playoff situation, but you can actively reduce it with the breathing and relaxation. Crack your neck, pop your knuckles, whatever it takes to loosen up.

I get set up at the putt, with my weight back, enough that my front foot's toes are off the ground and my hand low and hanging, holding the disc roughly at the angle i want to release it on. Rear leg bent and loaded, weight squarely over the back foot. As many or as few deep breaths as needed, but the three step move doesn't start until one last deep exhale, with my weight back.

Finally, it begins-
Simultaneously start to inhale and rock forward my weight to the front foot.
Keep inhaling and rock back to the rear, getting back into the power position.
EXHALE! (This should be noticeably forceful) and at the same time press HARD into the ground with the rear foot and with the arm swinging forward at the same time- the longer the the putt, the more forceful the weight transfer and power that back foot acts!

Now, this is for me and what I can do repeatedly for long practice sessions, so this is my baseline. When I'm working on things, this rhythmic breathing and weight shift is always in place, and I only allow one more form thought at a time, and NEVER during competition. I throw say ten putts, then adjust my stance 1' wider, for example, then 10 more, and adjust again, sort of a Goldilocks mentality until I've found the sweet spot in the middle. IT'S IMPORTANT TO PICK A STYLE AND POSTURE YOU CAN REPEAT FOR A LONG TIME. Without it, by the time you make these adjustments, you've built up too many sore muscles and tension that now you've developed other flaws that you're body is adjusting for subconsciously. Trying to work on your balance, and your arm gets too tired to keep the same tempo, for example.

The important thing to take from this, no matter your putting style, that the power comes from the ground, and that you always repeat the same breathing rhythm.


A FEW LAST THOUGHTS TO END WITH (FINALLY!)
-The aggressive line-drive putting calls for stiffer plastics. If done effectively, too soft of a putter will not handle the power you're transferring into it, so find yourself 4 of the exact same mold, weight and even color, as silly as that may sound. If you have 3 white putters and one black putter that are otherwise the same, you'll still be able to feel a difference in the black one due to it absorbing more of the sun and heating up more than the white colors more reflective properties, which will make it feel softer on a hot, sunny day.
-Remember, you're looking for straight and flat as possible, from point A to Point B. Choose whatever putter gives you the furthest range in that endeavor (usually more of a neutral, less stable putter than most think. Wardens over Judges, Pures instead of Mercys. You get the idea.
-Don't be afraid to experiment with slightly lighter putters! If throwing a 170 gram version of your putter consistently gives you cleaner releases then it's 175 counterpart, then take it! Wobble is so much more damaging in the wind than a lighter putter anyway. You can't build consistency if the disc comes out like a wounded duck, just the same way that the longer forehand throwers will always get a cleaner release than less skilled flick throwers do.
-This style doesn't fit well with straddles. Too much arm and wrist, and general vertical motions; not enough weight shift possible
-When putting uphill, the stance narrows, on a downhill slope, the stance widens.
-Lifting the back legs for style points is not the same as a forceful push downward to kick off the power transfer! When I start to catch myself coming off of a decent rhythm, this is almost always the first thing I notice, and usually beacause body parts are getting too tired to perform consistently and a good sign it's time to quit practicing. Ingraining bad habits is so much worse than not practicing long enough! Know your limits!

 

[scarpfish]

Well, I'll confess I didn't read it all before I started scrolling down. Anybody else?

 

[slowplastic]

Good summary of lots of things. I would just include a section on how to shift the weight, as this is what pretty much all trying to improve Ams do wrong. They start with pelvis at 45ish degrees and push forward, ending at 45. Rather than driving rear hip to front hip, ending with the rear leg kind of swinging behind and the spine onto the front leg in balance. It gives more power and prevents you from wanting to step through the putt on anything longer than 25'....making that 25-33' range way easier.

Also as much as I hate saying "putting styles depend", I often say that for general things here because if it's just a wall of text and a question I can't tell them what to do, and then other people may think that advice is a truth for all cases. But if someone posts video then certainly there are right and wrong things to do relative to their form. But I think you've rode the line well of specific enough advice that pretty much applies to anyone, unless they disagree fundamentally with something like putting flat or hyzer or nose down or something. I'm definitely in the flat putts camp too.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Also as much as I hate saying "putting styles depend",

It does depend on a ton of things, but the key point IMO is that if your trying to keep the disc flying straight to the chains while flat - your style better support that result.

I can putt pretty flat to about circle's edge, then I start adding height to keep my disc at chain height. How much finger spring and wrist equals how much pop you can get on the disc with my typical "McBeth" style putting. Minimal arm swing, maximize the pop.

Meanwhile "the Ricky" has taken the swing arm putt from nearly all spots to ~50' and can putt faster and keep the disc flying chain height much longer. This type of putting is easy to see the benefit of if you grab a heavy book and swing it like Ricky putts and see how far you can throw it. Try putting that heavy book with your normal spush putt and it's not going as far. Maximize arm swing, minimal wrist, maximizes the pop.

The key to the Ricky putt is that he has committed to dialing in the accuracy of it to the highest levels. If you use the catapult to fire your disc at the basket and you miss, you're looking at long comebacks all the time because the disc is flying faster.

 

[SaROCaM]

It feels powerful to do it, but after a dozen or so practice putts, the leg, knee and ankle can get tired quickly

The overwhelming majority of disc golfers could use some strength and conditioning work, both general and sport-specific.

Always an exhale, much the same way you see a power lifter suck in a massive breath on the barbell's way down on a bench press and then exhale forcefully once they start to lunge the weight up.

This is not what powerlifters do. Nitpicky, yes, but I couldn't let that pass. Agree with the general point of getting the breathing down.

Anyway, I agree with most of this. I prefer a stiffer, neutral putter and am also in the flat putting camp.

 

[slowplastic]

It does depend on a ton of things, but the key point IMO is that if your trying to keep the disc flying straight to the chains while flat - your style better support that result.

I can putt pretty flat to about circle's edge, then I start adding height to keep my disc at chain height. How much finger spring and wrist equals how much pop you can get on the disc with my typical "McBeth" style putting. Minimal arm swing, maximize the pop.

Meanwhile "the Ricky" has taken the swing arm putt from nearly all spots to ~50' and can putt faster and keep the disc flying chain height much longer. This type of putting is easy to see the benefit of if you grab a heavy book and swing it like Ricky putts and see how far you can throw it. Try putting that heavy book with your normal spush putt and it's not going as far. Maximize arm swing, minimal wrist, maximizes the pop.

The key to the Ricky putt is that he has committed to dialing in the accuracy of it to the highest levels. If you use the catapult to fire your disc at the basket and you miss, you're looking at long comebacks all the time because the disc is flying faster.

Yeah it's not going to be a straight putt at chain height the entire way past 30-40'unless you are a spin putter or putt at 50mph like Ricky. I do kind of the McBeth thing, worse obviously, but in close it's like a line drive and the farther away the release point is higher. The thing is it still feels like it's straight at the basket and going through the chains. When I was worse at putting it would become more of a lob, up to the apex and then down toward the basket, almost like a basketball shot. Now it's like a line drive even though I'm sure the disc is well above the top band at some point during flight when I'm past 35' out.

Basically what I'm saying is the line drive at the basket may be "feel" rather than "real", but even if the disc is flying high to low it still feels like you're driving it through the basket and it has no choice but to be chain height for a large % of its flight, whereas an actual lobbed half-go is only going to be chain height for a small % at the end of its flight.

 

[Tripper]

Well, I'll confess I didn't read it all before I started scrolling down. Anybody else?

Since I don't play competitively or even keep score, I barely read the first paragraph.

 

[Keller]

If I'm looking for specific information, I can read page after page online.

But in a forum?
My eyes just glaze over and I think its Casey at it again.

 

[slowplastic]

If I'm looking for specific information, I can read page after page online.

But in a forum?
My eyes just glaze over and I think its Casey at it again.

Yeah it can be a slog. Harder to format it nice, and plus with it being a forum you have to actually read and assess for a little before deciding if you want to trust it. It takes way more investment.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Basically what I'm saying is the line drive at the basket may be "feel" rather than "real", but even if the disc is flying high to low it still feels like you're driving it through the basket and it has no choice but to be chain height for a large % of its flight...

Exactly. The sooner you learn to putt straight through the basket, the better. The only thing I think that's up for debate in my own putting, is whether or not I want to putt like Rick and rifle it in from 20-40' or if that's just going to be a disaster of brutal comebacks. I've been doing it both ways and have made a ton of putts well outside my normal max range with the Rick, but have also missed the basket for a 25' comeback.

Time will tell, it's fun to mess with and discover how Rick can keep the disc on a frozen rope for 40'.

 

[pauldst]

Key to accuracy

A thorough thought process on putting technique
2. Speaking of straighter lines, ever heard the phrase, "The shortest path between two point is a straight line?" Let's avoid the quantum physics time travel sci-fi argument and take that as truth for now. Much the same way a bullet out of a rifle loses accuracy the longer it goes, the key to accuracy in shooting is the initial velocity. Imagine a circle in front of the basket, or a target like you would use at a shooting range. Now pretend that your shot will, 100% of the time, hit within that circle, but has the exact same chances of hitting directly on the crosshairs as it does the edge of the circle. Obviously, you want that circle to be as small as possible. My argument is that always putting at a hyzer angle, where you have to factor in a bit of side to side action, or putting with a lot of height on a softer style of putt, INCREASES that target circle.

I read through #5 before scrolling, but after the bolded sentence in #2 I was reading through a more skeptical filter. Initial velocity is the key to distance/range in shooting, as well as DG, not the key to accuracy. The typical shotgun projectile has a higher muzzle velocity than the typical pistol or the typical non-military rifle, and more energy than most other firearms, yet is typically less accurate.

The key to accuracy is control. More specifically, defining the trajectory of the projectile while it is being launched, and limiting as best you can the effects of outside variables after it is launched.

Defining the trajectory can be seen in at least three things. The longer the barrel of a firearm the better the accuracy because it maintains control of the projectile longer so that it can be better directed. The better the sights--and the better the ability of the shooter to sight--the better the accuracy because one can better aim. The steadiness of the launching system is also important. For a firearm, one can use a bipod, tripod, sling, different stance (sit, knell, lay prone), or some other aid to help your muscles in being steady, but there is little, if anything, similar that can be used to help throw a disc more accurately. Same for aiming, leaving the motion of throwing, which you are addressing.

In shooting, there are several things used to limit outside variables. Rifling of firearm barrels increases accuracy over distance by making the flight of the projectile more stable. This does translate to DG in that we spin the discs and get similar effects. Rifles often have built into the sights a way to compensate for gravity and wind, but shooters can learn to make rough adjusts for these things, adjusting their aiming points, just as we can in DG. Relative height needs to be adjusted for, also, in both shooting and DG.

Controlling trajectory, and adjusting for outside influences, are things that you are addressing. I recommend you either drop the shooting reference or modify it, and make #2 about aim, not accuracy overall.

 

[lyleoross]

As soon as it gets published in disc golfer magazine, I'll not read it there either. It probably is good information, but I'm a low patience reader. If I can't derive an uninformed opinion from the title, what good is it?

 

[46YearOldSlinger]

Since I don't play competitively or even keep score, I barely read the first paragraph.

Quick summary just for you Tripp... you're doing it perfectly. Keep the backpack on and have both a cigarette and a beer in the off hand to counter balance the disc in the putting hand (just like you). 50% of the time it works every time.

 

[Turnipseed]

There's a lot of misinformation, weak rhetoric, and presumption in that article... should be about right for a disc golf magazine. Sadly, no matter how correct much of the information may be, it is ultimately next to useless. I know some people who thrive under the belief that they are doing things "right" so this might be a nice little placebo for them for a while. For the rest of people, no putting instruction is going to make a meaningful difference. The body knows intuitively how to shift its weight and do work, repitition is the only real key to being a good putter. Again, there are elite putters who disagree in theory or in practice with many of your absolute statements. Let that be a lesson to you.

 

[Meillo]

It probably is good information, but I'm a low patience reader. If I can't derive an uninformed opinion from the title, what good is it?

I enjoyed reading it. (I have the patience.) No matter if the information is right or wrong, it provided a lot to think about and try out. The title, however, is horrible!

 

[anonyduce]

Time will tell, it's fun to mess with and discover how Rick can keep the disc on a frozen rope for 40'.

My general theory is that with his nose down release and high velocity the disc is flying rather than floating or rather it's moving so fast that it's able to move like a throw not a putt and this keeps the putter from ever dumping left instead a slow controlled fade.


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[Lazerface]

Good summary of lots of things. I would just include a section on how to shift the weight, as this is what pretty much all trying to improve Ams do wrong. They start with pelvis at 45ish degrees and push forward, ending at 45. Rather than driving rear hip to front hip, ending with the rear leg kind of swinging behind and the spine onto the front leg in balance. It gives more power and prevents you from wanting to step through the putt on anything longer than 25'....making that 25-33' range way easier.

Also as much as I hate saying "putting styles depend", I often say that for general things here because if it's just a wall of text and a question I can't tell them what to do, and then other people may think that advice is a truth for all cases. But if someone posts video then certainly there are right and wrong things to do relative to their form. But I think you've rode the line well of specific enough advice that pretty much applies to anyone, unless they disagree fundamentally with something like putting flat or hyzer or nose down or something. I'm definitely in the flat putts camp too.

I want to putt flat so bad. I'm not proud of my DGCR signature. I've been playing for about a dozen years and still have good friends ask "have you tried to putt with less hyzer???" I don't know what's wrong with me. There are certainly times I can get a flat putt going and windy rounds where I have no choice and just revert to a Nybo like in and out putt, but when the nerves get going, the old fashion hyzer drop in is what works as much as I hate it. Especially if I'm playing on old Chainstars.

 

[joecoin]

From my days as a child throwing Frisbees I have a flat spin putt. I have tried other techniques, but always come back to the spin putt. When I am aggressive with it I do much better .

If you have ever thrown darts (the tiny missile, not the Innova disc) that is the mindset I use when putting. Straight, low and fast/hard. When I'm on it's beautiful, when I'm off it's a disaster.

 

[anonyduce]

What OP doesn't state is the nose down nature of Ricky's nose down putt. This means if he doesn't draw metal he won't be more than 15' away.


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