WORLD FIASCO

[Matt B.]

No. They did try. They gave up when they were told they weren't going to get in. They can't sit on a wait list that might open up a week or two before the event. That doesn't give them time to make arrangements to travel to the event, find a place to stay or cover any issues that they might have at home. It might be easy for an OPEN player to sit on a waiting list hoping for a last second spot, but not so much for others.

The lack of a waiting list doesn't suggest a lack of interest in participating at Worlds, only a lack of interest in sitting on a waiting list.

"They gave up" is the pertinent info. How are the organizers supposed to know of a higher than anticipated demand if it is not apparent? Sounds like some division caps were adjusted. They CAN sit on a wait list, it's a choice. Maybe not a great one, but it is a choice. You refuse to put your name on a wait list, you will never get a spot.

 

[Loomis]

"They gave up" is the pertinent info. How are the organizers supposed to know of a higher than anticipated demand if it is not apparent? Sounds like some division caps were adjusted. They CAN sit on a wait list, it's a choice. Maybe not a great one, but it is a choice. You refuse to put your name on a wait list, you will never get a spot.

They should have just let the ladies sign up. Capping their division at 8 was stupid. If more wanted to play let them play.

I think this strand of the issue speaks to the need for the PDGA to step up and create a new system for Worlds. Either two separate events or perhaps making the division bigger for more entries.

OR

They can tell the Masters women that they don't count as much as the OPEN players and their PDGA fees are going to reflect that. Instead of paying 75 bucks a year like all the other pros, they can pay 10. If you're going subordinate them, make sure you do it across the board.

 

[JC17393]

If you're going to institute a tiered registration system, it has to be done before the qualification process takes place (i.e. before last season began). In other words, if having more points is going to give you a better chance of getting in, players should have that knowledge before they start accumulating said points.

Players knew going into the 2013 season that they needed to acquire X number of points to qualify for Worlds. Once they crossed that threshold, as far as they were concerned, they were invited. They didn't need to do any more (doesn't mean they didn't do more, just that there was no more urgency). It's a bit unfair to after the fact throw in an extra criteria for early registration or first registration.

I imagine that's why the PDGA board shot down the idea of tiered registration for this year. Perhaps it now has the momentum it needs to become part of the planning in future years.

 

[gwillim]

For the Pacific Northwest (particularly the Portland, OR area), big events really do fill in a matter of hours, making a very good argument for some form of selective/tiered registrations.

The folks who are in charge of Portland Worlds have run the NT Beaver State Fling for a number of years, and use a tiered registration system for that event because otherwise it will fill in 10 minutes flat (In 2009 before the tiered system was implemented it did indeed fill in 10 minutes, crashing the online reg. server too).

This year the BSF filled entirely in 8 minutes. That was just locals.

 

[Loomis]

Well, as always, we'll have to wait and see if the PDGA does anything to address any issues this year.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

OK, here's one way to allow all those top pros to get in...

Have registration open to TOURING CARD players for X amount of time before general signup.

As is, the only benefit for being a touring card holder is to vote for player of the year and Sportsman of the year... and Hall of fame members.

These are the people who EARNED the right to early registration, and the only tournament that holds spots for touring pros is the Maple Hill Open.

I agree with this 100%

 

[JC17393]

They should have just let the ladies sign up. Capping their division at 8 was stupid. If more wanted to play let them play.

You just refuse to acknowledge the fact that logistically they can't add players to the event "just because".

To add players above and beyond the pre-set limit would mean taking spots away from somewhere else. Who decides what spots get taken away and how do you explain that to the people who did what they were supposed to do to earn them?

There is a hard cap on how many players the event can reasonably handle. They're not going to go over that cap just because you think they should.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The policies for invites and registration haven't really changed much over the years other than raising the amount of points needed to get an invite. It will take the scenario that happened this year to change future procedures for the 2016 Worlds (not next year). It's already too late to do much about 2015 since players have already been accumulating points for 2015 invites under the current plan as mentioned by JC.

While I suspect both Worlds would have filled reasonably fast, I think the new registration procedure and the one week delay in the start created a feeding frenzy that was unexpected. While it was nice seeing players who registered on the list right away, it seemed to fuel the need to register right then or miss out. In past years, it was not uncommon to see the list of registered players for the first time about a month after registration opened. But now that the genie is out of the bottle, delaying the posting of registered players will likely not deter players from making sure they get in by registering right away.

 

[lbond]

You just refuse to acknowledge the fact that logistically they can't add players to the event "just because".

To add players above and beyond the pre-set limit would mean taking spots away from somewhere else. Who decides what spots get taken away and how do you explain that to the people who did what they were supposed to do to earn them?

There is a hard cap on how many players the event can reasonably handle. They're not going to go over that cap just because you think they should.

:clap::thmbup:

I would also like to ask the OP, why does it seem like you are taking this so personally? Judging from your picture you aren't one of these women, and it's been stated on here multiple times that logistically it just isn't that possible...or at the very least not reasonable without a large appeal from the women that are affected.

So what is it that's got your Jockey's all in a wad over this? Or is this just a general problem you have with how the PDGA runs things?

I'm getting the feeling there are deeper issues than the Women's Masters division though...

 

[Three Putt]

The policies for invites and registration haven't really changed much over the years other than raising the amount of points needed to get an invite. It will take the scenario that happened this year to change future procedures for the 2016 Worlds (not next year). It's already too late to do much about 2015 since players have already been accumulating points for 2015 invites under the current plan as mentioned by JC.

While I suspect both Worlds would have filled reasonably fast, I think the new registration procedure and the one week delay in the start created a feeding frenzy that was unexpected. While it was nice seeing players who registered on the list right away, it seemed to fuel the need to register right then or miss out. In past years, it was not uncommon to see the list of registered players for the first time about a month after registration opened. But now that the genie is out of the bottle, delaying the posting of registered players will likely not deter players from making sure they get in by registering right away.

I sorta get this, but this was an issue already for 2011 World's and even I knew about the issue with BSF filling in lightning-fast time. The PDGA should have know this was going to be an issue the minute they announced the location. That they chose to do nothing is on them; anybody with just a little bit of vision could have predicted what was going to happen and taken some proactive steps.

 

[Loomis]

:clap::thmbup:

I would also like to ask the OP, why does it seem like you are taking this so personally? Judging from your picture you aren't one of these women, and it's been stated on here multiple times that logistically it just isn't that possible...or at the very least not reasonable without a large appeal from the women that are affected.

So what is it that's got your Jockey's all in a wad over this? Or is this just a general problem you have with how the PDGA runs things?

I'm getting the feeling there are deeper issues than the Women's Masters division though...

This wasn't an issue until I started getting feedback from players about their inability to get into Worlds. An impromptu discussion was held with a few women who felt they were being marginalized and that no one cared. I didn't think much of it until I started hear complaints from other divisions. It wasn't until I looked at the sign up that I saw the disparity in the divisions.

If your defense of the sign up is "logistics" then whomever set up the logistic messed up and there needs to be a correction. I realize you don't care about this issue and are doing your best to sweep it away. I understand that it's uncomfortable for others to listen to or hear, but this is it. This is where you have to get a topic discussed.

Do you have a problem with how I choose to address this issue? Do we want to resort to Ad Hominem BS to undermine the importance of the issue? If you have a point make it?

The PDGA has a mountain of problems, perhaps they will get addressed some day outside of a forum. Until then, this is it.

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

dood. they can play in another division. why not just join the men? whats the big deal. not like they are really the champs of anything.

 

[bwgort]

This wasn't an issue until I started getting feedback from players about their inability to get into Worlds. An impromptu discussion was held with a few women who felt they were being marginalized and that no one cared. I didn't think much of it until I started hear complaints from other divisions. It wasn't until I looked at the sign up that I saw the disparity in the divisions.

If your defense of the sign up is "logistics" then whomever set up the logistic messed up and there needs to be a correction. I realize you don't care about this issue and are doing your best to sweep it away. I understand that it's uncomfortable for others to listen to or hear, but this is it. This is where you have to get a topic discussed.

Do you have a problem with how I choose to address this issue? Do we want to resort to Ad Hominem BS to undermine the importance of the issue? If you have a point make it?

The PDGA has a mountain of problems, perhaps they will get addressed some day outside of a forum. Until then, this is it.

You've clearly gotten some members of the PDGA's attention. Let's make this discussion a positive one.

What is YOUR proposal for fixing this problem?

 

[bschick]

I understand that. Discraft is also not known for supporting it's players, even more so than other companies. Just a shame that a good guy like MJ got left out. I assume he has a full - time job and probably just missed the windows. Bummer for sure, but the ms the breaks I guess.

I love how the fault always falls on the sponsors....what are they supposed to do? They too would have to sit in front of a computer the minute registration opened up just like the other 100's of golfers and register. The issue is this was a popular worlds that had limits and not everyone was aware until it was too late. There are a lot of good players that got shut out, at least two world champions I know of. The last I heard, Jonny Sias (multiple world titles) and Mike Raley were both on the list. They just didn't expect things to fill up in less than 24 hrs. Is that their fault or their sponsors fault, or the World's staff? It is what it is and it sucks. I agree with others that their needs to be a tiered system to start and then open it up. I love MJ and want to see him play as much as everyone else, but it's hardly Discraft's fault for lack of support. I guess he should have been sitting in front of his computer the minute things opened up and registered just like everyone else. As someone who has been supported by Discraft for years, I can tell you that your claims are BS. I guess it depends on what you are expecting them to do for you?

Carry on........

 

[JC17393]

I sorta get this, but this was an issue already for 2011 World's and even I knew about the issue with BSF filling in lightning-fast time. The PDGA should have know this was going to be an issue the minute they announced the location. That they chose to do nothing is on them; anybody with just a little bit of vision could have predicted what was going to happen and taken some proactive steps.

So where were you in 2012 when this oh-so-obvious process could have been put in motion? Clearly, not everyone has your all-seeing eye.

If your defense of the sign up is "logistics" then whomever set up the logistic messed up and there needs to be a correction.

So how would you propose they do the logistics differently? Bearing in mind there are a limited number of courses and a limited amount of daylight in which to play all the rounds needed to complete the tournament, how many players would you have let in and how would you have grouped them? Tell us how you'd alter the way they've been doing things year after year without major issue so that it is "better".

 

[The Hammer]

FWIW.....Players hardly had to be sitting in front of a computer the minute registration opened. I think registration opened at midnight on the selected date. I was easily able to register later that day.

 

[BgWvDave]

MJ got left out. I assume he has a full - time job and probably just missed the windows. Bummer for sure, but the ms the breaks I guess.

Ha, Does MJ even have a job?

 

[Loomis]

You've clearly gotten some members of the PDGA's attention. Let's make this discussion a positive one.

What is YOUR proposal for fixing this problem?

I have stated a few times what needs to be done to resolve this issue this year. In order to make it up to the people in this division who didn't make it in, I suggest the board waive their PDGA fees for next year. I wouldn't even discuss it, just send them a note saying "we're sorry we messed this up. This is a token of our contrition."

Second. Make sure that long before there is a sign up for Worlds or any Major, that a potential pre-reg sign up site is created to see how much interest there is. Sending out letters is quaint but it fails to stir action in most of the membership. Find out who wants to come before you open the gates. From year to year this will change depending on the location. Then, let the "logistics" begin.

Third. Perhaps it's time that the Majors are taken away from individual TDs and placed more under the control of the PDGA director. This streamlines the events under one canopy and keeps mistakes like those seen on the National Tour from happening in the future.

Fourth. Open up a discussion with the members regarding how Worlds should be presented. Regardless of how it was handled in the past, the evolution of the club and the sport have bypassed that discussion and the findings.

Fifth. The PDGA hierarchy needs to be more vocal and active in these issues. I realize that it's "just a club" but it's time to start looking at the club as something more than a group of collected stats. It's time that there is some definitive leadership within the sport. Get control of the tour.

Finally. Pay your board. Pay based on who makes it to the meetings. Thus avoiding those who just want to sit back and pick up a paycheck. You have the cash. I know you do. Use it to get the leadership involved and then the sport might actually be able to grow.

 

[biscoe]

45 masters aged ladies have earned points in pdga events this year- 8 spots were reserved for them at worlds- this is 17.7%

720 masters aged men have earned points in pdga events this year- 72 spots were reserved for them at worlds- this is 10%.

how is FPM underserved?


i do agree that the method for registration needs to move to a tiered system of some sort, i also wouldn't mind seeing separate worlds for age protected divisions. we have outgrown the idea of worlds being the annual disc golf convention for everyone.

 

[Anon]

I love how the fault always falls on the sponsors....what are they supposed to do? They too would have to sit in front of a computer the minute registration opened up just like the other 100's of golfers and register. The issue is this was a popular worlds that had limits and not everyone was aware until it was too late. There are a lot of good players that got shut out, at least two world champions I know of. The last I heard, Jonny Sias (multiple world titles) and Mike Raley were both on the list. They just didn't expect things to fill up in less than 24 hrs. Is that their fault or their sponsors fault, or the World's staff? It is what it is and it sucks. I agree with others that their needs to be a tiered system to start and then open it up. I love MJ and want to see him play as much as everyone else, but it's hardly Discraft's fault for lack of support. I guess he should have been sitting in front of his computer the minute things opened up and registered just like everyone else. As someone who has been supported by Discraft for years, I can tell you that your claims are BS. I guess it depends on what you are expecting them to do for you?

Carry on........

I think the reason people are faulting Discraft in regards to MJ is the fact that he didn't know if he would have the financial support from them to attend Worlds when registration opened up. It was only later that they kicked him down some signature Comets to fund his trip... at which point the whole thing was filled up.

The issue isn't that somebody wasn't waiting at the computer to hit the "submit" button... The issue was weather or not they would help pay for him to go - which is absurd considering he is one of their most likeable and recognizable pro's and its not like they support a big team anyways.

Carry on...