2017 Next Generation Disc Golf Top Prize: Car

[DavidSauls]

Thanks for the post. Some of us will definitely stay tuned.

 

[PWaggoner]

I'm excited for this. Go Dave, pat, synthya!

 

[DavidSauls]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, if you don't sell out and being non-sanctioned reduces attendance by a little bit, it'll eat into that $24,000 in savings.

Regardless, we've seen a number of efforts to create special tours for top pros recently, and I applaud you for making the effort to create a special tour for ams. Something in addition to Am Worlds and the USADGC, that ambitious ams can have as a goal.

 

[lyleoross]

So, I think Dave solved the question nicely. Car vs Sanctioning. The car wins. Because, what good is a marketing campaign if you take away the hook? And David S. addressed my concerns susinctly. The event is insisting on "ams" while giving what amounts to the biggest pro payout in history.

Putting myself in the shoes of the disgruntled, "ams have been shortchanged," am, this doesn't do something to take care of ams, it treats one am like a pro. That is, it isn't that said disgruntled am wants better am treatment, he wants to be treated like a pro without having the skill to compete against top level pros.

To be clear, when I complement Latitude on this strategy, I'm not being sarcastic or smarmy. I think it's smart as hell. I'm against it, but I recognize the strategy is being savvy.

As to why sanction with the PDGA. If we enter into a situation where every company and promoter is sanctioning their own events and tours you lose your over reaching structure and image that national marketers are going to recognize. No major sport, pro or am does this. Not that it hasn't been tried. It just fails. Without a governing body, you lose the cohesion that will be recognized by outsiders and that is necessary for long term growth. These types of strategies are great for short term success, lousy for long term stability.

 

[lyleoross]

As a hypothetical, if we completely focused on the am sport and essentially eliminated the pros by removing the incentives and structures that support the pro game. For example, don't allow am payouts to support pro payouts. Then the guys at the top of the am pool get the plastic and have to resell it, competing head to head with the resellers who sponsor the events in many cases. And of course, all those disgruntled ams would actually have to compete against those pros in an open environment since they'd all be ams. What's the argument then? "We need more skill protected divisions."

 

[Consult20]

I'm guessing Mazda3 or Mazda6.

 

[lyleoross]

The notion that the PDGA is great, or awesome isn't the one I'm addressing. I will say that in my experience as a businessperson, they're pretty good. However, the argument I'm making is that in a sport you need a governing body for long term success. Governing bodies can be good or bad. In many cases, they are corrupt. The most corrupt are those that are the most obscure, independent and manufacturer influenced.

The PDGA is extremely open. All docs are published, their meetings used to be (still are?) open to members, and we have a direct say in their actions. That is actually amazing and amazingly rare.

 

[lyleoross]

I'm guessing Mazda3 or Mazda6.

No way, has to be a Volvo. For the SAAB rooters above, aren't they gone?

 

[DavidSauls]

Car, no car, sanctioned, unsanctioned, disgruntled ams, happy ams, marketing ploy, no marketing ploy.....doesn't matter to me. I'll take it as an attempt to create something cool, for a group of disc golfers who don't have that.

I'll question whether the trade-offs of going non-sanctioned make it better or worse, but that's for the proprietors to gamble on. As well as launching such a large venture all at once.

I know a local pro who, when he was a very good am, though the USADGC was a bigger deal than Am Worlds, at least to him, because he had to qualify to get in. A series of events where you have to qualify to get to the next level is intriguing.

 

[lyleoross]

Car, no car, sanctioned, unsanctioned, disgruntled ams, happy ams, marketing ploy, no marketing ploy.....doesn't matter to me. I'll take it as an attempt to create something cool, for a group of disc golfers who don't have that.

I'll question whether the trade-offs of going non-sanctioned make it better or worse, but that's for the proprietors to gamble on. As well as launching such a large venture all at once.

I know a local pro who, when he was a very good am, though the USADGC was a bigger deal than Am Worlds, at least to him, because he had to qualify to get in. A series of events where you have to qualify to get to the next level is intriguing.

I think this is an important, and dare I say it, Salient, point. Something like this is overdue and a great direction. I just would like some tweaks.

 

[loki the trickster]

No way, has to be a Volvo. For the SAAB rooters above, aren't they gone?

I can answer this.... not saab is not gone, well not exactly. saab is owned by the Chinese. But i believe sabb will be 100% or at least 90% focused on electric cars for the Chinese markets.

 

[DanJon]

I'm guessing Nissan Versa, Chevy Spark, Ford Fiesta or Kia Rio.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Might be cool if it was a vehicle suitable for the winner to tour next year maybe with Lat 64 detailing.

 

[DanJon]

Might be cool if it was a vehicle suitable for the winner to tour next year maybe with Lat 64 detailing.

Oh yeah, like Wysocki's Lat-Wrapped Scion?

 

[puck'n'disc5]

A Subaru would be legit.

 

[lyleoross]

A Subaru would be legit.

WRX! STI!

 

[Consult20]

Might be cool if it was a vehicle suitable for the winner to tour next year maybe with Lat 64 detailing.

Oh yeah, like Wysocki's Lat-Wrapped Scion?

A Subaru would be legit.

WRX! STI!

Thanks for the kind words folks. We're looking forward to providing a new experience for our amateur competitors. There's a lot to share over the coming weeks, btw no-one has correctly guessed the car yet...... Thank you JC17393 for your comments – one of our goals was to work with the top organizers and TDs around the country.

We wanted to take a moment to provide some perspective on why we chose not to sanction with the PDGA. Dave and Pat are past PDGA board members, Pat's a lifetime eagle member, the regional coordinators and TDs are all experienced PDGA volunteers – we are all very pro-PDGA. Collectively we have volunteered thousands hours to the organization and many more to the sport in general. This effort changes none of that for us, in fact what we're doing embodies and compliments the mission and vision of the organization. Anyone exploring new ideas in the sport could not be doing so with the foundation the PDGA has built year over year. We share nothing but pride and sweat in the organizations' past, current and ongoing success.

We did not take the decision lightly. In the end, economics and efficiency won out.

First, it's worth noting the scale, the PDGA sanctioned approximately 2700 tournaments last year and projects 20% growth for 2017 or 3,240 tournaments next year. We are running 118 – even if somehow we had a direct 1-to-1 impact, the PDGA will still sanction 3,122 tournaments. Based on past growth rates, however, it's hard to imagine the NG tour series having any impact on the PDGA's tournament numbers.

If we were to sanction the qualifiers as c-tiers, regionals as b-tiers and the national championship as an a-tier and we were fortunate enough to sell out the events – the PDGA would be paid via player fees, sanctioning fees, extra insurance fees and disc golf scene registration processing fees about $34K. We're using disc golf scene for our registration (arguably the best!), the PDGA will earn about $10K on the DGS fees in any case. The remaining $24K covers the cost of the car and contributes to the insurance policy already purchased to fully cover the events.


Car or sanctioning? We chose car.


What we are doing is nothing new or novel. A car was given away in 1974. The qualifier/regional/national tournament structure is well known and used in many sports, including Ultimate. To pull it off, we needed to be create it from the ground up. With the volume of qualifiers it was important we started with a clean sheet of paper and designed simple, robust, clear, repeatable processes. This included simplifying the administrative work asked of our TDs, for example, when they upload the scores at the end of a qualifier there are no further reporting requirements or payments due. In our case, the idea of coordinating the completion of 118 PDGA tournament reports with 118 points of distributed responsibility added an additional layers of administration on the team and TDs at a time when we have to simplify to be successful.


If we prove the model works next year, we will be in a much better position to align with the PDGA... we look forward to doing so and we're having conversations with them now.


Will it all work?

We have a great team assembled and we're all going to give it our best shot to find out.

We hope you will too.

On behalf of the entire Next Generation team, thanks again and stay tuned,

Dave, Synthya and Pat

If the decision on the vehicle hasn't been made yet, these guys build awesome diesel trucks and could build something bad a$$ for $25k. I'm a fan of the show and of their work:

https://www.dieselsellerz.com/

 

[TimmyGah]

A Jeep Compass is roughly in that price range and their top pro likes to throw one as well

 

[DanJon]

Changing my guess to Scion xB.

 

[lyleoross]

I thought Scion was gone?

I didn't realize we were making legit guesses. In that case, I'm definitely going Volvo. Actually, I'm going to take a Hundai Soul. Good disc golf car. It should be a Volvo though.