DiscNinja33
Par Member
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2019 Pros Switching Sponsors Official Thread
- Thread starter Buchajs1
- Start date
You could write into an independent contractor's contract that you'll pay part of their health insurance.
VLaForce2002
Par Member
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2017
- Messages
- 182
I agree with your thinking.
I would add: Based on the video's by Dave Dunnipace, he is not in a hurry to share credit for disc design with anybody. I can't imagine them agreeing to a disc line by Paul for Paul. There is even a small possibility of Paul getting too big and being a threat; meaning, for Paul's role to get any bigger means too much money or power to feel comfortable to the current business/political structure at Innova; he may have maxed out his potential.
Putt for D'oh
Double Eagle Member
The Teebird3 and Roc3 and Roc3x and Leopard3 are essentially Innova's discs for Paul. I'm not sure they get made initially without him, more stable versions of those staples.
Putt for D'oh
Double Eagle Member
I don't think the thought is a player goes in and grabs the mouse and pulls open autocad and starts making adjustments to the wing shape, but involved by saying I want a disc of about this speed with stability like this or that and feels like such and such. Kinda like how it is suggested the Lat 64 Mace is because Feldberg wanted a Roc clone.
DiscNinja33
Par Member
No, man, they definitely need to know autocad, how to find the plastic, order it, and work the press, to be able to make their own disc. *sarcasm*
You're 100% spot on. I also do think that Paul basically gets to do this at Innova already, as others have said. "I like the TeeBird, but I wish it was a little flatter/faster" and boom he gets a TeeBird3.
You're correct that the player isn't going to use AutoCAD and design a disc from scratch all by himself. A few players have had input into design like you say with Feldberg (he also had a hand in the Spark and the Dagger). Eric McCabe had input on the Truth and EMac Truth. Jesper Lundmark helped design the Pure and Halo. Ricky Wysocki had a bit of say in the Compass.
But there is a difference between a company offering input for a disc design as opposed to a whole line, presuming line is putters, mids, fairways and distance drivers such that a player could set up his bag with all his own discs. Unless the player is willing to be patient and wait for the full line to come to fruition...e.g. getting one, maybe two new discs released per year over 4-5+ years...I'm not sure how that sort of thing is feasible.
Seems far simpler to do more or less what Innova has already been doing with McBeth. Do special runs or put his signature on stock runs of existing molds (Destroyer), maybe let him put his signature on a new release if he likes it (Nova), and/or tweak or adjust an existing mold or two to better suit his game (Roc3). Do that over a 2-3 year period and he ends up with a full "line" of discs with his name on them. Less upfront costs, more immediate rewards for the player, same long term potential.
Yeah, I was replying to those who are saying he'll design a new line of discs. Input, yes. design, no.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
So, what does designing a line of discs for Paul mean to discraft? How much of the take does he get? I can't imagine that it is going to make cash flow for them.
I see the Tri move here, if it's real. Tri built their brand by having top European and American players become associated with certain discs. It worked pretty darned well for them. The strategy took Tri from a bit player to challenging Innova in many markets. Discraft got trammeled in the process. I'm dyin' to see if it will work.
That said, I still think it's a bad business move.
I'm guessing, if it happens, that Paul is building his retirement package.
I see the Tri move here, if it's real. Tri built their brand by having top European and American players become associated with certain discs. It worked pretty darned well for them. The strategy took Tri from a bit player to challenging Innova in many markets. Discraft got trammeled in the process. I'm dyin' to see if it will work.
That said, I still think it's a bad business move.
I'm guessing, if it happens, that Paul is building his retirement package.
slowplastic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2014
- Messages
- 6,254
opcorn:
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Designing discs. I'm gonna disagree with those that think this is as hard as many think it is. Go pick up a line of Innova discs in one rim config. The more overstable, the deeper the cut on the bottom rim. By the time you get out to understable, the line is almost straight, with a little hump. That configuration is repeated rim to rim for each rim width. In other words, they repeat the formula, rim width to rim width.
Now, there are exceptions.
Have some fun. Go to inbounds and look at flight distance across discs with different rim widths. Remember, the idea is that the wider the rim, the longer the flight. Somehow, certain discs seem to fly farther. My 21 isn't your 21. There are differences and some manufacturers seem to do it better than others. Since I've not done a real study, I won't say which ones I feel are better.
I'm guessing that any of the companies have enough knowledge about rim structure to get general results. I want OS, well, here's what you're looking at. Then, I want it to fit in my hand, thus. Etc.
For sure, when Lat took off, they seem to get from very little, to all kinds of things, in a big hurry.
Now, there are exceptions.
Have some fun. Go to inbounds and look at flight distance across discs with different rim widths. Remember, the idea is that the wider the rim, the longer the flight. Somehow, certain discs seem to fly farther. My 21 isn't your 21. There are differences and some manufacturers seem to do it better than others. Since I've not done a real study, I won't say which ones I feel are better.
I'm guessing that any of the companies have enough knowledge about rim structure to get general results. I want OS, well, here's what you're looking at. Then, I want it to fit in my hand, thus. Etc.
For sure, when Lat took off, they seem to get from very little, to all kinds of things, in a big hurry.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Last, what, I'm gonna dump my bag to pick up a bunch of DiscPaul plastic? Really? Better be a long-term plan.
slowplastic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2014
- Messages
- 6,254
Premium plastic discs that flip and glide like beat in/base plastic really works well for the average player. Champ Teebird is not a DX Teebird, but a River in Opto is like a super glidey worked in fairway.
Now we have tons of discs in premium that are made for premium and really flippy, in addition to super high speed and flippy so new players think it's what they need.
All this variety is available now, in general, so it's just marketing differences for the most part IMO.
Mocheez
* Ace Member *
I've never gotten the impression that Paul has any interest in designing discs. Seems like he prides himself in being able to pick up any frisbee, learn it in a few weeks, and rely on it in tournaments.
ALL disc companies were created by players. I don't think anyone's saying that it is difficult for a player to design/create discs...if they have the right know-how or relationships with people with the right know-how. Regardless, it's damn expensive. That's the truly difficult part. It's a huge investment and the payoff doesn't come immediately if ever.
BlueMonk
Par Member
All I want is for Paul to troll everyone by putting up a video on Instagram where he's demonstrating some shots and have the stamp on the disc digitally blurred for no apparent reason. No mention of it, no acknowledgment or explanation.
That might be my favorite disc golf moment of 2018 if it happened.
That might be my favorite disc golf moment of 2018 if it happened.
I like to think that if McBeth goes to Discraft, that he is doing so partly to free up more money for other pros on the Innova Team.
If he had a huge contract with Innova, they could spread that out with the remaining guys/new sign-ons.
If he had a huge contract with Innova, they could spread that out with the remaining guys/new sign-ons.
Hyyyuge competition when it comes to making beer for the masses. I personally don't see how he can make "real money" in the long run from this, unless you have the pocket$ to market the bajeebas out of the product.
