2022 European Open July 21-24

[Shallows]

what does the 2011 mean?

Excuse me 2021. At my age the decades fly by.

 

[Shallows]

Contrary to your view, The Beast is pretty universally acclaimed to be an incredible course.

Don't worry about the street adjacent to hole 3. A roller would have to make its way through a crowd of onlookers standing 5 deep before having a chance of getting to the pavement.

Luxury Car SMASHED By Errant Disc Golfer Throw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WehE7zC7sYk

 

[rhatton1]

Or rather give these people feedback that mimicking a temp course at a major or elite series event will not work for permanent solutions because they'd be an obvious safety risk.

I tried that once. I now have a population of people who hate me and go out of their way to try and discredit me where they can

This is a genuine problem, people mimic what they see on screen. Some very bright people I know have blind spots for the safety concerns of opening up their course creations to the wider public. "But me and X would never throw down the blind corner when we can hear a car coming" "You sir have not accounted for Johnny Hacker, the lowest common denominator, who will quite happily throw whenever and wherever he please because he is standing on a tee and so he has become God."

I joke but genuinely I've pulled people up on courses for throwing over the heads of mothers pushing babies in prams with toddlers in tow. I've seen them throw down a walking path with people walking up it because "it's a disc golf course they should get out of the way"

Some people are idiots. More than enough of them that unsafe course design will lead to horrible accidents. Major tournaments need to stop being held on courses that glorify these elements as design features.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Luxury Car SMASHED By Errant Disc Golfer Throw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WehE7zC7sYk

I have to ask why they positioned that promo structure forward of the tee, rather than on either side of the tee (which is what I've seen at DGPT events held in the U.S.)

Better positioning takes it completely out of play.

 

[rhatton1]

I strongly disagree on the European Open looking and being perceived as amateurish despite the surroundings; the $100,000 purse was one of the largest of the year in all of Finnish sports.

The whole tournament is incredibly professional, it's another level and has been for years. The course featuring so many of these elements as course features is unfortunately the one amateurish looking bit.

Watch it as someone watching the sport for the first time. It makes the course look like it's been squeezed in amongst a residential area instead of being a sporting arena.

 

[Shallows]

I have to ask why they positioned that promo structure forward of the tee, rather than on either side of the tee (which is what I've seen at DGPT events held in the U.S.)

Better positioning takes it completely out of play.

More visible on camera brother. Dollars over sense.

 

[nothinbuttree]

Luxury Car SMASHED By Errant Disc Golfer Throw:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WehE7zC7sYk

Wasn't my best round--didn't know anyone was filming.

 

[Flick Maniac]

I sincerely dont understand this discussion. Ive seen a gazillion more US tournaments feature manifold more sketchy designs. What specifically is the problem at the Beast? Hole 10? Where else is the problem?

And then to extrapolate that into causing problems at new permanent course design level. Come on now. I just dont see it.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I don't even know who won the EO at this point, Nikko is the REAL story lol.

MPO: Some McDude coming back from an injury (decided he was better off throwing lefty backhand to keep fro reinjuring is elbow throwing RHFH), edged out another McDude by 1 stroke.

FPO: some chick we've seen before, beat out the home town fave (who had a nasty OB rollaway at a particularly lousy time), by 2 strokes.


Now you know.

 

[Streets]

MPO: Some McDude coming back from an injury (decided he was better off throwing lefty backhand to keep fro reinjuring is elbow throwing RHFH), edged out another McDude by 1 stroke.

FPO: some chick we've seen before, beat out the home town fave (who had a nasty OB rollaway at a particularly lousy time), by 2 strokes.


Now you know.

Ugh that sounds so boring...

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Ugh that sounds so boring...

Pretty sure Jussi was counting on the Nikko show to boost ratings. :|

 

[Streets]

Pretty sure Jussi was counting on the Nikko show to boost ratings. :|

Is it bad that I could definitely see this as being true? Nikko is a walking nerve cluster, so just poke him a little and BOOM, publicity.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I know I shouldn't... but couldn't help but laugh.

 

[flatflip]

I sincerely dont understand this discussion. Ive seen a gazillion more US tournaments feature manifold more sketchy designs. What specifically is the problem at the Beast? Hole 10? Where else is the problem?

And then to extrapolate that into causing problems at new permanent course design level. Come on now. I just dont see it.

I played nokia open a month ago. The crowds weren't there to chase off the normal pedestrian traffic. Even with a pretty robust volunteer force, we had a lot of holdups with pedestrians. Hole 10 was not played because it was completely unmanageable, but Hole 1 was bad, hole 11 was bad, hole 14 was horrible. I watched a pensioner sitting at a bus stop on hole 3 almost get beheaded by a shot. I had to skip a number of holes in my practice round because a lot of it was unplayable.

There are better ways to do it. A decade ago, this course was the future. Now it's the past. There are too many excellent courses on dedicated land in Finland to continue cramming this event into a shared space like this.

 

[RistoS]

A decade ago, this course was the future. Now it's the past. There are too many excellent courses on dedicated land in Finland to continue cramming this event into a shared space like this.

Purely from the game perspective, absolutely. However, these dedicated courses don't yet have the logistical muscles that Nokia DiscGolfPark and it's surroundings do, which is why EO is still held there. Even though Nokia Open largely utilized the same layout, it's just not comparable to EO because the city of Nokia didn't grant them as many possibilities to restrict this shared space.

 

[coupe]

Or rather give these people feedback that mimicking a temp course at a major or elite series event will not work for permanent solutions because they'd be an obvious safety risk.

Only works if you can get the designer's ear BEFORE the course goes in, and probably not even then. Good luck changing Joe "I'm-a-course-designer's" mind once he's started putting in the hole(s). And even if you do, don't expect players who have seen or played a temp layout to NOT to use those holes as an alt layout.

 

[rhatton1]

I sincerely dont understand this discussion. Ive seen a gazillion more US tournaments feature manifold more sketchy designs. What specifically is the problem at the Beast? Hole 10? Where else is the problem?

And then to extrapolate that into causing problems at new permanent course design level. Come on now. I just dont see it.

I've been saying the same thing about all those courses, this isn't directed at The Beast or Jussi specifically (although the set up at La Mirada for the first stop of the Disc Golf World Tour had all the same issues and more (playgrounds in noob hyzer range, multiple walking path crossings etc, and it irks me more with Jussi as I know how much he puts safety front and center of DiscGolf Park course design and has done for years. He does seem to have a blind spot with the effect visible tournaments have for future safety issues)

Don't get me started on Ledgestone/Fountain Hills/USDGC etc. Baskets on islands in car parks, holes that the best play is to skip off a road...ugh.

As for your last sentence, I do see it, daily as part of my job, it is a genuine wide issue.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Fair enough. BTW what is your job?
(edit: just looked at your signature, nevermind )

I feel like the safe design of a course stems from whoever orders it, owns the land etc. The designer should be chosen diligently. I just feel like the thought "I wanted a hole across a football field because I saw it on EO" might pop up in Joe Schmoes head, yes, but there are a dozen safety breakers that should engage well before that thought makes it into the plan to begin with, even less on the ground, and thats what we should be focusing more than preventing the thought.

I dont know how common it is that a nobody designer gets their hand on a piece of land, baskets and teepads and free rein. I just cant personally imagine it happening all that easily.

 

[biscoe]

Fair enough. BTW what is your job?
(edit: just looked at your signature, nevermind )

I feel like the safe design of a course stems from whoever orders it, owns the land etc. The designer should be chosen diligently. I just feel like the thought "I wanted a hole across a football field because I saw it on EO" might pop up in Joe Schmoes head, yes, but there are a dozen safety breakers that should engage well before that thought makes it into the plan to begin with, even less on the ground, and thats what we should be focusing more than preventing the thought.

I dont know how common it is that a nobody designer gets their hand on a piece of land, baskets and teepads and free rein. I just cant personally imagine it happening all that easily.

In the US it happens much too frequently.

The emulation of design concepts seen at big events is a real thing. I don't really recall playing any island holes prior to USDGC, OB for the sake of difficulty has proliferated, etc, etc.

 

[rhatton1]

Same as Biscoe says for the UK.

So far most of what I see is temporary holes/courses clubs try to use for tournaments, so beyond a one off liability issue isn't too bad, although I can think of lots of tournaments where pedestrians have been hit as a result. We have some good examples of installed courses that have done this as well and created wildly unsafe holes and the conversations that come back are that it is as a result of seeing similar decisions on YouTube courses

Councils have no clue what they are giving permission to in the parks and there is no safety oversight or framework. All it takes is a passionate individual without an understanding of the dangers they are creating. I can only think of one meeting with a council body where they quizzed me on safety elements. Every other one has had the attitude of "it's just a frisbee what's the issue?"