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4 set DG Majors

I don't know why it would annoy Innova (East) though. If they wanted to write a book on how to host a Major the USDGC organizers should be on the shortlist of consultants for it.

The whole "XM" stuff is ridiculous, but that's on the PDGA's end.
 
I don't know why it would annoy Innova (East) though. If they wanted to write a book on how to host a Major the USDGC organizers should be on the shortlist of consultants for it.

The whole "XM" stuff is ridiculous, but that's on the PDGA's end.

You are quite possibly correct, I have this memory that a year or so ago there were issues with a structural rule that came out of the PDGA that USDGC didn't like. My recollection was that they felt they were important enough not to have to tolerate direction from the PDGA.

Now, that is one huge piece of BS that I can't back up. So, if someone calls foul, good enough. I'm more concerned with the notion that there be a rule set that everyone falls under, and that no one has done more to meet a top tier rule set than Innova East.

Wiki has an interesting read on the development of the golf majors:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_major_golf_championships

My interpretation is that the majors, as they currently exist, grew out of player evaluation of what are the top events, how they viewed them. I like that. If the top guys, say, 1020 rated, traveling pros were allowed to vote...

I'd still think that you'd want a written set of criteria. We ain't golf, and shouldn't be. But I do think input from the top players should matter.
 
I understand your point, and in theory I agree, but in reality I think it's more 50/50. A quality event that players appreciate and is media friendly in my book has 2 of the 4 things already. The other 2 are time AND PDGA christening.

Maybe the line here is where we disagree, but 3/4 is good enough to market going forward. Wait until you see what some of the media crews have in store over the next 1-25 months. If you give us something to hype, we will take it to that level. If the Event itself is quality, and the PDGA blesses it, I think that's plenty enough to get it started...then time just makes it better.

Getting away from the "Major" label, due to the PDGA's current and historical use of it:

If the PDGA christened, say, the Ledgestone as the 3rd leg of a Triple Crown, would that do it? It seems to be a quality event. But would people think it special that someone wins Worlds, USDGC, and Ledgestone? Or think he just missed it because he lost Ledgestone, but won Worlds and USDGC?

I think that 3rd (and 4th, for a Grand Slam) event is going to need something special, more than just quality and PDGA christening.

It's a good point that USDGC hit the ground running, and didn't have to grow into it's prestigious status. Maybe somebody will do that, too. But I still suspect that the prestige needs to come before PDGA's blessing.
 
I am not familiar with the golf/PGA world, but assuming that the OP is correct, the allegory is very well crafted with the PGA Majors vs. proposed PDGA Majors. I do like the idea of 4 PDGA Majors with some moving but at least one geographically fixed (USDGC).

My only pause would be that the Asia/Japan/Aussie Opens drop of the Majors map. But you know what? You can still run those tournaments and they'd be pretty cool anyway. It always seemed like the PDGA was trying to "make" the international scene more prestigious by throwing the Major titles there, rather than taking already prestigious events and making those the Majors.
 
I am not familiar with the golf/PGA world, but assuming that the OP is correct, the allegory is very well crafted with the PGA Majors vs. proposed PDGA Majors. I do like the idea of 4 PDGA Majors with some moving but at least one geographically fixed (USDGC).

My only pause would be that the Asia/Japan/Aussie Opens drop of the Majors map. But you know what? You can still run those tournaments and they'd be pretty cool anyway. It always seemed like the PDGA was trying to "make" the international scene more prestigious by throwing the Major titles there, rather than taking already prestigious events and making those the Majors.

Take a look at the wiki link for the current golf majors. They have changed according to what players wanted. In other words, going out of our way to match up against the golf majors ignores how they grew. It also says, hey, we should do what they did. Initially, there weren't four majors, and even the events that are considered majors have changed.

I think, possibly incorrectly, that the European and other majors came out of Innova's recognition that a set of majors would be needed for long term growth of the sport. I happen to agree and think it was rather savvy of them to approach the major issue long before anyone else gave it any thought. Innova supported that international events to build their brand, again, darned smart business IMO, if I'm correct of course.
 
I am not familiar with the golf/PGA world, but assuming that the OP is correct, the allegory is very well crafted with the PGA Majors vs. proposed PDGA Majors. I do like the idea of 4 PDGA Majors with some moving but at least one geographically fixed (USDGC).

My only pause would be that the Asia/Japan/Aussie Opens drop of the Majors map. But you know what? You can still run those tournaments and they'd be pretty cool anyway. It always seemed like the PDGA was trying to "make" the international scene more prestigious by throwing the Major titles there, rather than taking already prestigious events and making those the Majors.

The PDGA has used the term "Major" in a different way. The biggest Pro event, biggest Am event (Am Worlds), biggest doubles event, biggest collegiate event (Collegiate Nationals, or whatever it's called), biggest event in Europe, biggest event in Asia/Australia, etc. These events have to reach high standards, but not necessarily be the equal of non-majors.

Golf uses the term quite differently, in a way that I think this thread is thinking of it---a specific collection of the top events at our top level.
 
I guess there's no harm in posting my thoughts I circulated among the Competition Committee a few weeks ago:

The designation of events included in the "Slams" of other sports were determined as much by the players and the media, not a single sanctioning body. The PDGA has co-opted the word "Major" for sanctioning purposes to good effect. However, observers and touring pros over the years have likely felt there were one or two other events worthy of being considered and perhaps one or two designated Majors less worthy if our hypothetical annual slam were limited to four events. In other words, the number of events some might think are appropriate for a Slam may not always match the number the PDGA has designated as "Majors".

My suggestion to establish a historical foundation for our Slam would be to simply designate the same number of Slam events (starting with five) before the start of each calendar year once the A-tier and higher events calendar has been established. Worlds would always be one Slam event. The other four would include one North American event (likely USDGC each year), one non-North American event (likely Euro Open every other year), and two wild cards which for example might be chosen from Ledgestone or Masters Cup or Maple Hill or Croatia or a new Match Play event.

Historical stability for our DG Slam each year would be established with Worlds as the lynch-pin plus four other worthy events. We can't predict the future. But for as long as our sport exists we can count on at least four other events worthy of being part of our annual DG Slam regardless whether some big events disappear like Japan Open, Circus City, Laurel Springs (big event before Major designation) or are only offered every other year like Euro Open.

Here's my suggestion for an interesting way to select Slam events to add excitement to the Slam process. The top 25 MPO finishers in the previous year Slam events vote to determine some of the events for the next year's Slam that is if there are more than four candidate events. FPO would have a separate vote for their Slam events, some which may be the same as MPO and some different like USWDGC. The top five finishers at the first Slam event in a year are voters for the next year. Then, the top five in the next Slam event not already voters become voters, etc., through the remaining three events, determining voters like the USDGC qualifying process.

The idea behind this is to let the pros decide among Slam event candidates on the ballot where they want to defend their titles, the purses promised are high enough and they will financially be able (some with support from sponsors) to commit to attend the following year. The PDGA would administer the process by handling submissions from events who wish to be considered for the Slam and vetting them including TD, staff, history, courses, cell signal bandwidth, etc. to be included on the ballot. Once the event candidates were announced, the media would be able to kibbutz publicly on which events they would like to see the pros select to potentially influence the voting.

In addition to FPO, a similar process could be done to define Slam events for Masters, Ams and potentially Juniors if we eventually get a thriving global high school DG scene developed. The PDGA might consider providing some additional funding to any events that get voted into Slams for the following year if we don't already support them with at least NT level funding.
 
Based on spectator attendance and growth in emerging markets alone, the European Open needs to be classed as a major.
 
Thanks, Chuck. It would be interesting to see how those pros vote. It might be interesting, as time goes on, to see TDs competing to get their events voted it---and perhaps raising the event bar higher, faster than they otherwise would.
 
I read most of this thread but probably not word for word all of it. Call me crazy but I don't see the benefits of having any sort of "slam." What does this bring to the sport? My belief would be pros aren't going to go to all the slam events just because they are labeled as such, but more because of the payout. So if the answer is to have certain events pay out more then yes that would be great. If those events are deemed the slams but payout doesn't change, I don't see a way that all or most of the players attend each event.

My opinion is i'm indifferent on all of it. I don't think it brings a ton to the sport, but it doesn't hurt anything either. It's another talking point when talking with friends so i guess that would be cool.

Follow up question, if there were a defined "slam," why would we need to be limited to 4? Just because other sports do that? Why not shoot for 8 (one a month from March thru October)? Or if you want to say 7 plus Worlds.
 
Follow up question, if there were a defined "slam," why would we need to be limited to 4? Just because other sports do that? Why not shoot for 8 (one a month from March thru October)? Or if you want to say 7 plus Worlds.
I suggested 5 to start, using the word "Slam" and not Grand Slam which might mentally limit the number to 4 due to the connection with baseball's grand slam. I can eventually see a winter (snow) event and night time event becoming part of the slam and even a futuristic Pokemon Go style event with dynamic virtual "hazards". As it is now, promising a large payout would be key for considering new events.
 
Once you got past 4 or 5, it's watered down to the point of just being another "tour".
That may be narrow thinking looking to the future. Globalization from growth will organically bring pressure to include more Slam events. I think creating the framework for the Slam that allows growth is more important than locking down a specific number, assuming we don't know how the DG world will see things 20, 50, 100 years from now. In one of many possible future scenarios, playing the sport outside may disappear.
 
Once you got past 4 or 5, it's watered down to the point of just being another "tour".

I suppose that's a good point.

I just really wonder what the players think in terms of getting them to go to an event. For instance I believe it was Brinster who brought up this idea, (or at least got most publicity about this idea) as well as the idea of "added cash from the PDGA" or something along that line. Well, I don't think Worlds is the biggest payout of the year but it must be close or top 3-5 and he took T72 which according to PDGA site netted him $445. A good payout for someone who lives close but let's assume the "slams" all have the same amount of money as Worlds, and Brinster plays on the west coast and gets this same finish/payout, is that trip worth it for him, or does he play the odds and play something on the east coast with the winner taking $500-900 and is the highest rated player there so best chance of winning by rating.
 
The NTs, DGPTs, & 2 biggest Majors already draw the top pros pretty consistently (excluding the ones from overseas). I don't see a "slam", in itself, being a bigger draw. More money might help along the edges, but there should be more reason for the PDGA to pump money into an event than just that the players want it.

A slam of some sorts is more about marketing, and fan interest. A series of highlighted, heightened events where enough people will care who won them. Maybe that leads to more money.
 
I'm somewhat new to the sport but I was at the last 4 rounds of Worlds this year in Vermont.

I think that there should be a consistent set and structure of "majors".

I think that ball golf has it right in having 4 majors that are always at the same time (same month) each year and people can plan on it.

Also, like that a major is always at the same place (Masters in Augusta) and the other majors rotate courses.

My idea would be for each year:

July: Global Major (Rotating between Europe, Japan, etc.)
August: Worlds (As is, 5 rounds at premier US courses, at least 2 courses each event)
September: Green Mountain Championship (Perfect test of golf on 2 courses, all at one facility, excellent event management)
October: USDGC (As is)
 
The NTs, DGPTs, & 2 biggest Majors already draw the top pros pretty consistently (excluding the ones from overseas). I don't see a "slam", in itself, being a bigger draw. More money might help along the edges, but there should be more reason for the PDGA to pump money into an event than just that the players want it.

A slam of some sorts is more about marketing, and fan interest. A series of highlighted, heightened events where enough people will care who won them. Maybe that leads to more money.

This was exactly what my thoughts were on this topic and you summed it up perfectly.

The other thing I'll add is after Tennis and Golf, what other sports have slams? I looked it up and it's roughly around a dozen or so sports in the world.

Do darts, bowling, skiing, skating, ect, ect have slams?
 
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