~400' BH and ~325' FH Help

[HyzerUniBomber]

https://vimeo.com/355196548

BOOM! :hfive:

 

[slowplastic]

BOOM! :hfive:

I'm pretty excited, I normally throw a lot of FH's. But it took me like 1/3 the effort today to throw 370ish fairway turnovers compared to smashing on a power FH. I'm starting to see why players like Simon, who has a pretty good FH, will throw so many backhands still. It must be so easy for him.

 

[sidewinder22]

This is a good starting point for me to keep working on this balance from, I still see issues but I think I'm getting the groundwork of this balance so I can hone it rather than completely change it.

This post helped a lot: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3487958&postcount=213

Also I tried to feel how I shift and balance on my left foot when throwing RHFH, or throw a ball, or swing a bat righty. Then I tried to feel this balance in my RHBH backswing and then in the X-step. In the X-step it felt like I had to move my heel under me by bringing it to the left, so finally that line for the kick the ball just worked out. I know my right foot still turns in a bit, but I'm feeling on some throws how to let my butt/body turn at the end bring my heel closer to the target as I plant, so that my body turn causes the foot to rotate closed. I think that is the correct concept?

Right, better balance on rear leg allows your whole body to turn back together more later into plant.

I'd recommend practice winding up like submarine pitcher on rear leg really slow and maintain balance/leverage to make a powerful/quicker move/stride off it.

 

[slowplastic]

I was able to adjust my rear arm today, from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04BGqmuaT8g

This throw is representative of some of the issues I was having though. I think I'm not giving myself enough room for the backswing by turning back open enough in my left foot stride and with my stride direction/angle on the teepad. More concerning to me is my head is getting that bit of jerk after the throw again, instead of having my shoulders turn around my spine more centered. I think I need to figure out the balance just a little bit better now that I'm able to get forward to the brace with my back arm helping. I think I just need to be aware of stepping more behind or to my right into the plant again, so I have room to swing through instead of having my shoulder block my body during rotation.

But it feels like my body follows through the swing so much easier, with the left side helping get through. I'm seeing a consistent increase, with putters 300-310, mids 340-350, and fairways 370ish on all lines. I used to have to throw a putter high and hard to get 300, now that's just how far they go and they'll do it on hyzer too.

This left arm movement is helping me commit to the brace shift better. I'm still concerned that I'm not driving into the brace early or aggressively enough off of my left side? I'm starting to feel it come together more naturally though, like how I can be off the left toes and then really land into the right hip/leg, but it doesn't feel quite right yet.

https://vimeo.com/356512323

 

[sidewinder22]

So much easier to see this stuff/your balance and swing intentions in the smaller motions and drills, the setup and address and pre-swing.

Note how your balance is tipped over so your shoulders are ahead of your hips and knees and then you reverse your balance. Your knees/hips can't leverage your shoulders any further. Note how my shoulder swings from behind the knee to forward of the knee to release the arm swing.

Your rear arm just needs to get or be out of the way like in Dingle Arm. I think if you look from behind the tee you would see your shoulder more toward the right teepad behind your knee or over it, while my shoulder is more forward over the knee toward left teepad side and can swing freely forward rather than having to go swing around rotationally.

 

[slowplastic]

Excellent, that feels so much better. I could feel that my right shoulder was wanting to open too much to the right on bad shots, and I couldn't commit to the landing into the plant as much as I thought I should be able to...my FH shift feels more impacting.

Makes sense. Land more butt-first so that when I clear the hips my shoulders are in front after. I wasn't aware of the right shoulder needing to be more to the left side, I guess if I marked up a video from behind it would be easier to see. But it definitely feels better. I feel more centered and upright overall instead of having my shoulder and arm swing more on their own.

Overall I would say that in that video it feels like my lower body/pelvis is trying to make it forward to finish in balance under my shoulders. Whereas with the changes you said, I feel like the lower body powers the shoulder turn better.

I'm also feeling today and with these corrections you noted, that my left leg wants to step or swing through the shot during follow through very easily. It's definitely on follow through and not during the the swing, but it feels so much faster and easier than before. I'm thinking this is ok depending on shot angle and power? Likely this is just from having my left side more forward so it doesn't slow me down during or after the swing.

 

[sidewinder22]

Sounds about right, yes follow thru walk out or recoil is dependent on shot. It's leading forward with the weight/butt and then slinging the whole torso/shoulder/arm forward like the battering ram.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3466580&postcount=9

 

[UhhNegative]

Looks like you are almost getting to the point where you need a faster FPS camera to really see the throw! Goes from powerpocket to the disc already being 2 feet out of your grip in one frame. Unless it's some sort of vimeo artifact.

 

[slowplastic]

Looks like you are almost getting to the point where you need a faster FPS camera to really see the throw! Goes from powerpocket to the disc already being 2 feet out of your grip in one frame. Unless it's some sort of vimeo artifact.

Haha it's a bit of both, I just went frame by frame through a second or so of the clip compared to the file that's on my computer and it seems to drop about 1 out of 4 frames on average. In my clip there's a frame of me holding onto the edge of the disc at release but that one is gone on the upload.

But I can definitely tell I'm throwing harder because my arm moves so much faster in video compared to before.

It's nice to feel like I have more in the tank because I can feel how better positions will add more easy leverage to what I'm doing, and that's while throwing farther than I ever have. I think the whole swing plane isn't flat was the first domino to fall in the last month or so of breakthroughs I've had, that enabled me to free up my body positions to flow through the throw better.

 

[SuperWookie]

Looking great my friend!!! You are just crushing it and with such ease! Congrats on all your hard work and new found distance, balance, and timing!

:clap:

 

[UhhNegative]

I think the whole swing plane isn't flat was the first domino to fall in the last month or so of breakthroughs I've had, that enabled me to free up my body positions to flow through the throw better.

It's crazy to me how you can go from this:

To throwing a shot that is on a totally different trajectory than your forearm. But kind of goes to show you that as long as the hitpoint is on the correct trajectory then it doesn't matter how you get there and (borrowing from Sean Clement) as long as you give your brain the right task it will automatically correct. And this disc rising isn't unique to you, I believe I see some pros throwing like that as well.

 

[slowplastic]

It's crazy to me how you can go from this:

To throwing a shot that is on a totally different trajectory than your forearm. But kind of goes to show you that as long as the hitpoint is on the correct trajectory then it doesn't matter how you get there

Yeah I really want to get that rising out of my form, I think I need to get more space to swing and wait longer before accelerating with my shoulders.

But here's the hit point from that same throw.

It's that swing plane isn't flat thing that opened it up to me. As long as I pull my shoulders through to get to the hit point where the opposite edge of the disc becomes the nose, that's what I aim for. And I know I'll get through that point and with a clean torque-free release, and nose down. It's very freeing once you feel where the disc's weight is released, and I'm far less likely to early release or griplock than I ever have been in the past. I'm throwing way more tight gaps on BH lines now, where I used to always go to FH shots if it was reasonable.

 

[slowplastic]

Also I threw today and tried to work on that hips first thing like SW illustrated. I need to keep at it, it got my head more centered again with some better shoulder turn, but I need to keep working on it as it was only a slight improvement.

X-step behind is feeling more natural to not overstep the left foot, on slow putter shots I am unconsciously doing a little shuffle step instead of getting the left foot around. That tells me I'm just "feeling" better balance and doing things more naturally instead of what I'm "supposed" to do.

One question though, relating to that hand/disc rise thing:

I had one shot today that felt like a pro power level shot, I couldn't quite replicate it again. I threw a Core like 8-10' high on a pure sweeping hyzer, it got out there SUPER fast and hit the ground at 330 skipping big to 350. Basically it acted like a low hard Teebird throw with the line, speed, and skip it had. Normally this disc has -1/1 stability but this thing flew like a straight fairway driver.

It felt like my hand and the disc were farther to my left, away from my body during the swing. I know SW has said that GG gets huge power because he gets the disc separating away from his body. I am bunched up with the disc, which is why it rises up on me.

I just don't know how to aim for this feel of having the disc/hand farther away from my body as I transition from the top of the backswing, towards the launch position. Do I need my right shoulder farther to my left over my feet? Do I actually think about keeping the disc wide away? Or do I just need to wait longer to use the torso to swing, so I don't pull the disc forward too soon/much causing that upward pull?

 

[sidewinder22]

I think it's more a matter of your balance/posture and how your right foot is going to the left away from you instead of underneath you, so that move is putting your shoulder inside instead of outside. See how balanced and relaxed Avery is with neutral legs hanging from the hips basically just standing upright. You are pigeon toed and really turning/tipping into your rear leg and restricted. Turn your rear foot back. When I try to get into your position here both my hips feel extremely tight and locked up. Should be totally relaxed and neutral and have mobility to swivel going down into the plant like going down half pipe.

 

[slowplastic]

I think I'm mistaking a good loaded feeling for actually being restricted. I feel way more neutral moving to my left like in a FH shot or righty baseball swing.

 

[UhhNegative]

Also I threw today and tried to work on that hips first thing like SW illustrated. I need to keep at it, it got my head more centered again with some better shoulder turn, but I need to keep working on it as it was only a slight improvement.

X-step behind is feeling more natural to not overstep the left foot, on slow putter shots I am unconsciously doing a little shuffle step instead of getting the left foot around. That tells me I'm just "feeling" better balance and doing things more naturally instead of what I'm "supposed" to do.

One question though, relating to that hand/disc rise thing:

I had one shot today that felt like a pro power level shot, I couldn't quite replicate it again. I threw a Core like 8-10' high on a pure sweeping hyzer, it got out there SUPER fast and hit the ground at 330 skipping big to 350. Basically it acted like a low hard Teebird throw with the line, speed, and skip it had. Normally this disc has -1/1 stability but this thing flew like a straight fairway driver.

It felt like my hand and the disc were farther to my left, away from my body during the swing. I know SW has said that GG gets huge power because he gets the disc separating away from his body. I am bunched up with the disc, which is why it rises up on me.

I just don't know how to aim for this feel of having the disc/hand farther away from my body as I transition from the top of the backswing, towards the launch position. Do I need my right shoulder farther to my left over my feet? Do I actually think about keeping the disc wide away? Or do I just need to wait longer to use the torso to swing, so I don't pull the disc forward too soon/much causing that upward pull?

I think its just waiting a little longer and probably what SW22 is saying with the weight going more targetward instead of right to left. I know when I've had my best throws it feels like I'm not even trying to turn towards the target, I just focus almost on staying in one place and my head looking to the left of the teepad until the force of the swing opens everything up.

Maybe just practicing a super wide reachback will let you feel what you need to feel to not get your shoulder jammed up.

I think I'm mistaking a good loaded feeling for actually being restricted. I feel way more neutral moving to my left like in a FH shot or righty baseball swing.

I think the foot stills moves to the left, but you can't let the butt also move to the left, the butt has to keep moving targetward else you end up compensating somewhere to stay balanced. Maybe that makes sense, maybe I'm crazy.

 

[slowplastic]

I really think it'll be the feet/balance/stride thing like SW is saying. I've had this disc going up thing for years and nothing I can do fixes it, no matter how much I try to concentrate on it. So it's fundamental balance leading into it I'm sure. I can't just put my shoulder to the left farther or else I drift more left and jam myself up...and I'm really trying to stride straight or to my right but obviously I'm pre-twisted a bit and can't do that perfectly.

This image really shows that many pro's have their striding foot so neutral or even open as the feet separate. I'll just practice striding and moving like this a bit to get it feeling natural instead of trying to be all coiled and loaded up as I step behind.

Overall from all my form tweaks I've learned if you think something might look off at all, then it's definitely off. And the cause to the problem is likely 2-3 steps before it in your sequence.

 

[slowplastic]

I think the foot stills moves to the left, but you can't let the butt also move to the left, the butt has to keep moving targetward else you end up compensating somewhere to stay balanced. Maybe that makes sense, maybe I'm crazy.

I was meaning doing athletic weight shift moving from right leg to planting on my left leg. Like throwing a ball righty, or a RHFH drive or swinging a baseball bat/golf club. I've done this motion since I was super young so those directions just feel natural. I have put like 5-10% the effort into throwing FH shots and I can throw 380' golf lines that way and 400' or a bit over with height/full flight...yet BH has taken revision after revision every step of the way. FH needed a few major changes and breakthroughs but it's felt pretty natural for how to approach it.

I definitely have power/form to gain in FH and in all sports moving that way, but it just feels more normal to me.

 

[Jet57]

This image really shows that many pro's have their striding foot so neutral or even open as the feet separate. I'll just practice striding and moving like this a bit to get it feeling natural instead of trying to be all coiled and loaded up as I step behind.

Overall from all my form tweaks I've learned if you think something might look off at all, then it's definitely off. And the cause to the problem is likely 2-3 steps before it in your sequence.

This is where I have been for the past 24-48 hours!! Dating back to some of my earliest form/critique videos, I began to plant more and more closed. Not because anyone was directly telling me to plant more closed, but because I thought that's what I needed to do in order to catch my weight, butt to target, shift from behind...etc.

After watching and going through SW's swim move video, it really stood out just how open/unrestrictive his front foot plants. My hip has ALWAYS felt restricted after I plant. Until just now, my thought was that the "restriction" I was feeling, was some type of load. And thought that my hips weren't clearing because of how I was moving After I planted.

Now I'm wondering if this is why I continue to jam and/or spin out. Standing in my office it is a much different/freeing feeling planting more neutral than severally closed.

 

[slowplastic]

Now I'm wondering if this is why I continue to jam and/or spin out. Standing in my office it is a much different/freeing feeling planting more neutral than severally closed.

Also keep in mind that if you stride slightly right to left on the teepad to throw "straight" down the intended teepad alignment, and plant with your foot neutral or even 10 degrees open to your own perspective, it will look closed on the teepad if a picture were taken at plant.

I think I'll approach this as trying to stay very neutral and load back at the end of the weight transfer. That should naturally close me enough. As long as you don't open up as you move forward then it shouldn't be bad.