Are we just making things up with nose angle stuff now?

[Kennets]

Thanks for the valuable information Chris, its something I haven't paid any attention to in a while.

Curious what Sheep is up to, hope you two have a conversation about it!

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Good video Neil.

You kinda (ish), proved what i were trying to explain, or at least how it feels to me throwing from a briefcase setup.

That the wrist/forearm want to go into supination (whether it's a forced motion or not), because it feels horrible staying "briefcased" from the pocket and out.

found a way to grip to be able to keep it the disc orientation and just push it out with opening hand.

50 deg nose up which is closer to what I was expecting if I could actually throw it without reorienting the disc.

Multiple throws didn't even register because it had like no spin and it seems to use spin to help detect if an actual throw happened and then another throw it got confused prob from such low spin and it said 80 launch angle and 2 nose angle but it was probably 80 nose angle and negative launch angle.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

if you briefcase, the disc will practically go into position naturally. you dont have to roll your forearm to get it correct.

Breifcase isn't about flipping your arm around, its about staying relaxed and getting the disc gripped correctly.

Yes it will practically go into position naturally. But if you want to develop more control over the nose angle then you need to learn to manipulate the timing and the amount of supination and level of supination force—to learn to do this quickly instead of wait a long ass time to develop it intuitively over years, it can be very helpful to directly think about rotating the forearm at key moments and with different amounts of force an/or range of motion.

You don't have to time the last split second to develop more control of the timing, the timing is much easier to practice and learn by focusing on just when you start the supination—e.g., if you start it at the start of the pull through it's harder to get more nose down because it's likely to finish supinating too soon before the hit vs if you start it right after the disc comes into the chest which is a key transitional moment in the form (into pocket transitions to out of pocket) so it's easier to add a form change at a moment like that since it provides a clear moment/feel to hook into and synchronize with.

If your timing is consistent and not premature, then you can manipulate the amount of nose down without changing the timing but just changing how much supination force and range you use.

It's kind of similar to manipulating spin by directly curling the wrist more at a key moment so that there's more spin from more uncurl. Yes, the wrist will naturally curl some amount on its own without directly trying to manipulating it so it's not a requirement, but I can boost my spin on command by up to 300 RPM, maybe more if I practice it more.

The wrist wrist curl example is of course a pretty different feeling mechanical change compared to turn the key, but the general feeling of making the adjustment feels the same—choose a key time in the form to add a bit more of something (if not just changing to pre-curling)

A lot of people on here don't seem to like the idea of making conscious adjustments like this, but then on the course, practically everyone I've played with is regularly reacting to their throws and saying things like "I gotta throw it higher/lower next time, got to get the nose down, need more hyzer next time."

 

[CoachChris]

Thanks for the valuable information Chris, it's something I haven't paid any attention to in a while.

Thank you. Unlike some in this thread, I enjoy these type of rabbit holes because it makes me dig deeper into what is actually happening biomechanically.

I hope all 'listening' can understand (1) the wrist doesn't rotate. It only moves from flexion/extension and ulnar and radial deviation; (2) the 'forearm' pronates/supinates; (3) about 2/3rds of perceived "turning the key" comes from external shoulder rotation. (4) nose down is the angle in the target direction at the instantaneous separation of disc/hand. How you get there does not matter. (5) having a perfect professional looking on-plane throwing motion does not mean you are throwing nose level or down. (6) it's not about always throwing nose down, it's about knowing HOW to control the nose angle and it is as important as hyzer/anhyzer control.

 

[RowingBoats]

(6) it's not about always throwing nose down, it's about knowing HOW to control the nose angle and it is as important as hyzer/anhyzer control.

I honestly think its the most important angle. Its a debatable topic for sure, and both wildly affect the flight, but accidentally doing the wrong nose angle is game over for most throws that require a shape imo.