Banzai's Battle with Bracing

[banzai7]

It's getting darker earlier, and so I'm not able to get out after work. But I've been doing some practice in the mornings and drilling in my office. I got some video this weekend. I've been focusing on trying to figure out how to crush the can correctly, and how to rotate my hips in place.

Anyway, it's probably just more of the same. On the first throw, you can see my plant foot kind of rolls over, which happens about half the time. The second throw looks a bit like my spine angle isn't quite right. But anyway, I'd love any feedback.

 

[slowplastic]

To me the second throw looked good. You're right about foot getting pressure on the outside on the first one...that's one of those things that if you had a runup/forward momentum you'd then be onto the toes trying to stop yourself from falling over.

Maybe try lifting up your front foot/shifting it forward a little on the step/transfer so it's slightly more in front of you and you can stay inside it a little easier.

I don't know what else to say at this point, it's looking pretty smooth. SW22 can probably pick up on what's happening. Are you seeing better distance? Rain makes it really difficult too to see how the distance is improving (wet ground for issues with planting, wet discs for issues holding on, and just cold body in general too).

 

[sidewinder22]

Over the top. See how McBeth has every thing centered on the front leg. Your head is tilted over and your shoulder and elbow are too far forward.

 

[banzai7]

To me the second throw looked good. You're right about foot getting pressure on the outside on the first one...that's one of those things that if you had a runup/forward momentum you'd then be onto the toes trying to stop yourself from falling over.

Maybe try lifting up your front foot/shifting it forward a little on the step/transfer so it's slightly more in front of you and you can stay inside it a little easier.

I don't know what else to say at this point, it's looking pretty smooth. SW22 can probably pick up on what's happening. Are you seeing better distance? Rain makes it really difficult too to see how the distance is improving (wet ground for issues with planting, wet discs for issues holding on, and just cold body in general too).

It's hard to tell distance-wise, since when I'm in the field I'm working on technique with midranges, and not paying attention to distance (or even throwing very hard). On the course, every once in a while I'm seeing my drives land farther but there's nothing mind blowing. Still don't feel like I've "got it" in the sense that I'm really using my legs to power up my drives.

I mean, my form has changed a lot from the the first video I posted. I'm throwing *way* farther from a standstill, and for that I am thankful. Whatever I'm currently doing for practice isn't quite working, although I feel like I'm close.

 

[banzai7]

Over the top. See how McBeth has every thing centered on the front leg. Your head is tilted over and your shoulder and elbow are too far forward.

Yup....

Do you think it's partly the weight of my shoulder/elbow being too far forward that's causing me to tip over the top?

I'm thinking about changing things up, since what I'm currently doing isn't working. Would you recommend trying a more "Swedish" style with a much lower pull through? That might get my center a little lower. If so, and videos I should try to look at to help?

 

[sidewinder22]

Sure, try some Swedish...Feldy, Astrom, GG.

You aren't shifting from behind you properly. It's like you move your weight forward/down and then your heel comes down. It needs to move together. Could be that you are moving your center too far forward compared to your heel or your knee compared to your heel or hips. Your butt(center of gravity) and knee and heel should come down together and crush the can as one. You don't need(shouldn't) to move the knee backward nearly as far as you do in the backswing and I think that is where it all starts to go wrong. Heel, knee and hip should move about the same distance back and up into the backswing and then forward.

 

[banzai7]

Ah! That's a good way of putting it. I've just tried swinging in my kitchen focusing on not turning my hips so far and keeping my knee less under my hip and a little more over my heel in the backswing. The plant feels much cleaner, like as soon as my weight shifts forward with the heel down it's stuck there like a post in the ground.

Gonna try to cement that in my muscle memory and try it in the field tomorrow. Thanks!

 

[banzai7]

I got in a bunch of practice in this weekend and then captured a short bit of video before dark yesterday. I feel like this is closer to weight-shifting from behind, but maybe not quite there? (I can easily shift from behind me without a disc in my hand, but when I swing my arms, it's really hard for me to get the weight to shift properly while my arms are counteracting it. I think I was compensating by tipping my upper body and head, but that just results in being over the top.)

I took slowplastic's advice and did a little half-step on my standstill drives and it seems to help me feel like my weight is connected to my foot and shift all at once like SW22 mentioned.

Anyway, I wasn't focusing on this but my upper body timing feels better. I can feel a stretch in my front lat muscle, and it feels like the disc is slinging more --- less "alligator arm".

Here's the video.

 

[banzai7]

Also, this will probably be the last video for a little while. I got a practice basket for my birthday, and I'm gonna focus on putting for a while.

When I started this thread, I didn't realize that "Banzai's Battle with Bracing" was going to be such an epic battle. Turns out I didn't conquer it, but I have made quite a few improvements since the first video I posted.

Thanks again to everyone who have helped along the way, especially to slowplastic and sidewinder22 who have really been dedicated. Thanks!

 

[sidewinder22]

Still turning your shoulder and bending your elbow before weight transfers forward. Your balance is too far behind your heel as you can see in the finish you reverse backward with all the pressure just on your heel.

Around 7min in:

 

[banzai7]

Okay, thanks. Do you mean too far behind my heel along the line of play --- i.e. somewhere between my feet --- or do you mean too far behind my heel off to the right of the line of play --- somewhere behind my back?

That Feldberg shoulder thing makes no sense to me ... but then again most of the Feldberg clinics I've watched make no sense to me. It's my bad, I know, but I don't get it.

 

[sidewinder22]

Too far behind your heels, not stacked upright/balance toward toes. Your shoulder needs turn further back(keep turning back) at the plant.

 

[sidewinder22]

Your head is still tilted over the top. See Head Position and Lag and Tilted Spiral again.

 

[banzai7]

Your shoulder needs turn further back(keep turning back) at the plant.

It feels like I'm kind of in a dilemma. Either (a) stay behind my plant but fail to be able to shift my entire weight before I turn, and hence I'm shifting in front of me, or (b) I manage to shift the weight but only by tipping my head/shoulders forward to help the weight shift, and I end up over the top. Typically, (a) was leading to spin outs and (b) was leading to falling forward. Both errors are a failure to brace.

I feel like I can make a proper move fairly easily with my arms at my sides. I can even do it with a minimal arm swing (like in the "crush the can" video). But I can't do it when I'm throwing a disc. I think the shoulder turn together with the arm extended away from the target is making it feel like I don't have any weight or mass to shift forward. This leads me to feel like either I'm not getting my weight forward (a), or I tip my shoulders and head over the top the achieve the weight shift.

What I'm saying is I don't know how to shift weight forward while fully turned into the backswing.

 

[banzai7]

Too far behind your heels, not stacked upright/balance toward toes.

Okay, right. This is what you're talking about in the Crush the Can 2.1 vid at around 2:45?

 

[banzai7]

Your head is still tilted over the top. See Head Position and Lag and Tilted Spiral again.

I think this still is from the second throw "One Step". Is the first throw any better? (It looks better to me on the head at least, but I want to know if it's still not right.)

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[RocHucker]

In the "Feel the brace in the swing..." video in the most recent post, Sean makes much of the idea of keeping the "bottom of the swing" in one place all the way through the backswing and forward swing. Does this apply to DG? If so, where is the bottom of our swing? Directly perpendicular to our line of throw, extending out from our dominant shoulder?

 

[RocHucker]

also, in that same video he talks about pre-loading 60% of his weight into the front leg, and not consciously moving off of it (but rather the weight shift to the rear leg in the back swing being a natural result of the backswing... so arms lead the backswing?).
Should this same feeling apply in a stand still DG throw? Aka weight preloaded on front leg, and pressure only shifting into rear leg as it becomes necessary to counteract the backswing and keep the "bottom of the swing" stationary throughout?

 

[sidewinder22]

In the "Feel the brace in the swing..." video in the most recent post, Sean makes much of the idea of keeping the "bottom of the swing" in one place all the way through the backswing and forward swing. Does this apply to DG? If so, where is the bottom of our swing? Directly perpendicular to our line of throw, extending out from our dominant shoulder?

The bottom of the swing arc should be right at the hit/release where your arm is pulled out taut with heavy momentum on the disc being directed targetward. The purple lever between your hand and the CoM of the disc should be perpendicular to the target. Look at the difference of where the release point is relative to the hand arc in the followthrough. KJ's release is closer to the left edge of the hand arc in the followthrough and release is about 1' forward of the front foot, while rounders release point is much further back behind the front foot and the bottom of the arc is in the followthrough after release where if they didn't release/slip early from to accelerate too quick and held on then they will griplock it to the right with more power than they have ever seen. You can also see that the rounder never gets the CoM of the disc close to perpendicular to the hand(purple lever), it would only happen if they held on around the arc much further to the bottom of their arc in the top left quadrant.