Banzai's Battle with Bracing

[banzai7]

Thanks for the quick feedback. I'll keep working on the two new drills and make the adjustments you mention.

What is an "alligator arm"?

 

[slowplastic]

Lower body, to me,is looking really nice and loaded and in control. You get that bounce back/recoil at the brace with your left hip stopping but not crashing into your plant side. That's good.

Your upper body is drifting forward a bit and your arm is a little ahead of things I think. But, IME, it's a lot of things that you've just changed. I think if you just get used to this lower body stuff a little more so it's muscle memory, you'll be able to think about the upper body and hit point again and let the lower body load/brace take care of itself. That's where you want to be...having the muscle memory take care of things and you just concentrate on the hit.

But you may still need your plant foot out a little more, or to feel like you're digging into it, so that your upper body doesn't get on top/tip over it the bit that it is right now. Any drift in the upper body causes your swing plane to drift during the throw (downwards), which will cause you to pull discs over. This is the difference between having to back off on a putter drive and being able to feel like you can rip your putter at 85% and know it will just go straight and fast. I know if I'm having a bad day I'm not confident on putter shots over 250-275', but on a good day I can throw my putters as hard as I want and feel like they have HSS = 0...and my drivers will go real far too.

Edit: On the one step your plant foot should be plenty far out, you just need to get "into" the brace and not let that upper body go forward and down.

 

[sidewinder22]

Your head is tilted/centered to the wrong leg/axis, so you aren't getting braced through your front hip properly. All your rotation is centered on your rear leg and downward, where Paul is centered to rotate around the front leg and upward. Your head is buried into your shoulder and turning over the top, and everything goes along out of whack, your lower arm and shoulder are not releasing parallel. Feet together drill should help. Tilted spiral.

 

[banzai7]

You are gettin close.

I imagine you've been bombarded by help-both good and bad.

The first thing I see is that your arm is not being loaded by your hips, legs and torso.

As in get those three going and it will whip your arm around at a faster rate and with less effort.

Try letting your arm hang a little limp and use the big muscles to get it moving.

The hips should completely open up at the end swinging everything around past the point of the hit.

Thanks for the comments. Yeah, I think there is still a timing issue with the pull. I wonder if it's related to the "elbow too far forward" issue that has been mentioned a couple times. As slowplastic mentioned, I'm not really thinking too much about timing right now because I seem to only be able to focus on changing one thing while I throw. Still it's on my list of things to work on.

 

[banzai7]

Lower body, to me,is looking really nice and loaded and in control. You get that bounce back/recoil at the brace with your left hip stopping but not crashing into your plant side. That's good.

Your upper body is drifting forward a bit and your arm is a little ahead of things I think. But, IME, it's a lot of things that you've just changed. I think if you just get used to this lower body stuff a little more so it's muscle memory, you'll be able to think about the upper body and hit point again and let the lower body load/brace take care of itself. That's where you want to be...having the muscle memory take care of things and you just concentrate on the hit.

But you may still need your plant foot out a little more, or to feel like you're digging into it, so that your upper body doesn't get on top/tip over it the bit that it is right now. Any drift in the upper body causes your swing plane to drift during the throw (downwards), which will cause you to pull discs over. This is the difference between having to back off on a putter drive and being able to feel like you can rip your putter at 85% and know it will just go straight and fast. I know if I'm having a bad day I'm not confident on putter shots over 250-275', but on a good day I can throw my putters as hard as I want and feel like they have HSS = 0...and my drivers will go real far too.

Edit: On the one step your plant foot should be plenty far out, you just need to get "into" the brace and not let that upper body go forward and down.

Great, thanks. Yeah I definitely want to get into the brace more and earlier. Still seems like that impact and recoil is happening too late in the throw to have much power transfer onto the disc. But the lower body is getting there. I feel like the weight shift and footwork are much better --- feels like I'm not spinning out at all really any more.

 

[banzai7]

Your head is tilted/centered to the wrong leg/axis, so you aren't getting braced through your front hip properly. All your rotation is centered on your rear leg and downward, where Paul is centered to rotate around the front leg and upward. Your head is buried into your shoulder and turning over the top, and everything goes along out of whack, your lower arm and shoulder are not releasing parallel. Feet together drill should help. Tilted spiral.

Ah, yes. I've got background in skiing and wakeboarding where you almost always lead the rotation with your head (when you're doing 360s and 540s etc.). I'm sure that's where this is coming from. Looking at the picture, it looks like the angle of my spine isn't too far off, but the head leads the rotation wrongly and throws this all off by the end of the throw.

There are a lot of things people have pointed out that need fixing:

1. Keep head right/back, inside plant
2. Stay upright
3. Limit upper body drift toward target
4. Turn shoulder inside posture
5. Plant a couple inches right
6. Don't bend elbow too much too far forward
7. Don't "alligator arm" (?)
8. Let arm be pulled by hips/legs/core

The Shawn Clement video is really helpful. If the head is really causing the rotational axis to be thrown off, I'm hoping that by just adjusting the angle of my head my rotational axis will shift. So it's possible that if I fix (1) then (2) and (3) will happen automatically. I hope!

(4) is a completely different issue, which I think will be helped by the "Inside Pull" drill or whatever it is called.

(5) is an easy fix I think, especially on standstills!

(6), (7), and (8) are all related I think and is also related to a timing issue. It's too hard to fix so many things at once. So I feel like need to prioritize? What cluster of things should I work on first? My own sense is that it'd be best to get my bracing/weightshift/rotational axis issues sorted first. Like slowplastic said, if that is in the muscle memory I can go back to focusing of the hit and timing.

 

[rickles]

This thread is a huge help to myself, just learning and reading the trials and tribulations of Banzai's battle. Thanks to all the coaches on here helping...I really appreciate it!

 

[sidewinder22]

Ah, yes. I've got background in skiing and wakeboarding where you almost always lead the rotation with your head (when you're doing 360s and 540s etc.). I'm sure that's where this is coming from. Looking at the picture, it looks like the angle of my spine isn't too far off, but the head leads the rotation wrongly and throws this all off by the end of the throw.

There are a lot of things people have pointed out that need fixing:

1. Keep head right/back, inside plant
2. Stay upright
3. Limit upper body drift toward target
4. Turn shoulder inside posture
5. Plant a couple inches right
6. Don't bend elbow too much too far forward
7. Don't "alligator arm" (?)
8. Let arm be pulled by hips/legs/core

The Shawn Clement video is really helpful. If the head is really causing the rotational axis to be thrown off, I'm hoping that by just adjusting the angle of my head my rotational axis will shift. So it's possible that if I fix (1) then (2) and (3) will happen automatically. I hope!

(4) is a completely different issue, which I think will be helped by the "Inside Pull" drill or whatever it is called.

(5) is an easy fix I think, especially on standstills!

(6), (7), and (8) are all related I think and is also related to a timing issue. It's too hard to fix so many things at once. So I feel like need to prioritize? What cluster of things should I work on first? My own sense is that it'd be best to get my bracing/weightshift/rotational axis issues sorted first. Like slowplastic said, if that is in the muscle memory I can go back to focusing of the hit and timing.

To me they are all related to each other. You have improved your move off the rear side, but everything is wonky moving/receiving onto the front side to clear out of the way. Since you aren't in good posture on the front leg, you get in the way of yourself to swing through and release/extend on plane. You are trying to hold on to angles and have to release early - alligator or t-rex arm. If you got a full release and extension from that position you put yourself in, your release would be 30 degrees or so to the right of the target.

 

[banzai7]

If you got a full release and extension from that position you put yourself in, your release would be 30 degrees or so to the right of the target.

It frequently is ...

 

[banzai7]

I think I'll start by working on 1 and 5 (and then 4 if those go well), hoping that they will help to fix the others.

Is the feet together drill just this one?

 

[sidewinder22]

Never actually seen that vid, but that is it. Perpetual swing back and forth. I think he was demoing your Beyonce dance with the knees coming apart.

 

[sidewinder22]

Speak of the devil and he delivers this vid today:

 

[banzai7]

Nice! If he knew how much YouTube traffic you send his way, He might put you on his payroll...

 

[banzai7]

Hi everyone. Been doing some fieldwork working on stuff. I haven't made too much progress yet, but I thought you might like to see what it looks like in Scotland when the haar rolls in. That's actually a visible line of fog on the field in front of me.



(No need to critique my form here ... I'll post again when I've made more progress.)

 

[banzai7]

Staying Upright/Head Behind Swing

I thought I'd get some video out in the field this weekend, but it didn't happen. Got some video in my backyard. I've been drilling quite a bit, trying to keep my swing on a titled axis behind my plant. Also trying to keep my head behind the swing, and fixed on the axis. I haven't managed to keep my head stationary ... should I try?

I think I've made a little progress, although there are surely things that need fixing. (My swing plane is messed up again ... ) Anyway, let me know what you see. The first throw is probably most like my old swing, the last throw is most like what I am seeing more often now.

 

[banzai7]

Also, the last couple days I think I've finally felt what people mean when they say you need a firm axis to pull against. On a few throws it feels like I've actually got leverage to pull hard back against the disc.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah first was the worst, your front foot rolls over losing pressure on the inside, then got a little better. You need to keep your rear knee somewhat bent so it can squat/load more and make a more powerful move. Because your rear knee is extended, you stride too far and lose power. It looks like your rear foot is turned a little too far forward, from a standstill it should be neutral, pick up your foot and let it naturally hang, it should turn slightly out, throw from that neutral position. You also turn your front leg open before your weight actually shifts(from behind you), you plant your front foot, but there's no weight or substance with it yet...ie not crushing the can properly.

 

[slowplastic]

The biggest thing I'm noticing also is the front foot/knee turn open at the beginning, rather than being 90 degrees to the throw and being there as a plant/brace only. Can't have that side leading anything by rotating...it has to be the axis/plant to spin against and around.

 

[banzai7]

Been messing around some more. Mostly I've been trying to brace by trying to get my body into the right positions and just expecting the bracing to "happen". It feels like I've tried almost every variation of body positions and it's still not "happening". My body positions are probably not right, but it led me to the question:

In order to brace properly, do you actively resist or push/press/engage any muscle groups? If so which?

So far the only pushing/pressing/engaging is happening with my rear leg.

 

[sidewinder22]

The bracing only "happens" if you maintain your posture and balance all the way through the finish. Just jump side to side quickly, you will brace yourself(resisting turning and falling over) to jump back to the other side quickly. If you are out of posture or balance it will take you longer to recover and make a move back, it should be more bouncy/reflex from your posture extending and maintaining your spine more centered. The further you jump back and forth the more your legs have to angulate to keep the spine centered. The more centered you keep the spine, the quicker you can move back and forth. Don't think power position, think quick position!

Backswing and forward swing, everything is just mirrored(Bottles and Cans/Double Can Crush). You must brace the rear side into the backswing and you must brace the front side on the forward swing. You should be able to swing back and forth forever without tipping or collapsing. If your front foot and leg never activates then you are collapsing. The move part 2 Ben Hogan Pivot really goes over the resist, rise and release. Everything should be activated from the ground up like a squat and generating ground reactive forces/bounce. In the Butt Wipe I talk about pushing the front into the ground, your front knee will extend, so your front hip clears/turns toward the wall and your butt maintains pressure against the wall. Your leg muscles should be burning if you do the Butt Wipe really slow just like holding a wall sit or a squat.