Bracing and Parametric Acceleration

[bryantlikes]

Hello everyone!

Been reading through some old posts thanks to Brychanus's Fundamentals thread.

Reading sidewinder22's post here he links to page about parametric acceleration.

That is for the golf swing (side view). If you take that as the top down view (and mirror it for RHBH) then it could be the disc golf swing correct?

My thinking is this helps me to understand the point of bracing on the front leg. Your COG is shifting forwards so by bracing on your front leg you're effectively moving in the direction of the green arrow and creating that acceleration.

Does this sounds correct? I hope so because it makes sense to me and I feel like it is helping me think more about how the stride relates to the swing.

 

[Brychanus]

 

[Brychanus]

^ Repository of Cool Images

 

[Tinkles]

This very interesting to me around how and in which direction the force is applied to sling/accelerate the arm.

I've played around with this by almost sitting down during the down swing which feels like the force is going perpendicular to the line of play.

I can easily throw upshot's from a standstill this way with the disc held straight out in front of me and just needing a very small shoulder turn. I like it for upshot's because it naturally makes it easy to keep your head more facing the target. Not sure if that is due to less shoulder turn or better timing.

When I try to throw longer shots this way two things happen: one, I need a lot of room in front of me because the backswing is like a super wide rail. It FEELS like my backswing is like AJ Risley in these cases but I haven't filmed it so only know what it feels like, but naturally when I'm thinking about this, I swing this way where I get my arm out/disc out early in the backswing. The other thing I notice is that my front knee is always bent in the down swing as a result of the sitting action. I notice Paul often has his knee like this vs Paige in that pic next to KGJ where her lead knee looks almost locked out.

I'd speculate that could be a result of them using this force differently to sling the arm. I haven't tried this in a while but when I messed with it, I didn't feel like I lost distance.

 

[Tinkles]

I wonder if the front knee bent is an indicator of a lower power more controlled shot vs the almost locked out knee indicating full power.

 

[Brychanus]

I wonder if the front knee bent is an indicator of a lower power more controlled shot vs the almost locked out knee indicating full power.

I think it depends on the player. Kuoksa is very athletic and can stay horizontal then get low and generate a lot of power with a knee bend for 600'+:

GG is on the other end of the vertical spectrum with a more extended leg throughout:

Anecdotally, I have weak legs relative to my mass and tend to have a straighter leg when I work on power shots, and started to find it easier to throw for power with more bend after a lot of time working on leg strength in the gym.

 

[Rastnav]

Kuoksa very much looks to me like the leg is extending once his COM gets back to center.

His weight is WAY back as he he begins his shoulder turn, and it's still back as he plants. I think that sorta hides the extension.

 

[Brychanus]

Kuoksa very much looks to me like the leg is extending once his COM gets back to center.

His weight is WAY back as he he begins his shoulder turn, and it's still back as he plants. I think that sorta hides the extension.

Thanks, I might've misunderstood. I do think you see people end more posted up in general on full power shots.

Here's Kuoksa teeing off at 266'. He stays more compressed in the follow through:

Some people post up to different degrees across all distances.

Simon's kinda in between



Gibson seems to post up into the finish starting at fairly short distances and gets into that extreme knee snap for big shots (still makes me wince a bit)

 

[Rastnav]

…

One thing that jumps out at me in the slow mo of Lizotte and Gibson is what happens to the brace on the short shots that are hyzer vs. flat vs. anhyzer. Way more leg extension on hyzer than flat or anhyzer. Maybe more pronounced with Simon.

You can also see the "knee bend turns into extension" on this slow-mo of Bradley Williams. I think I've seen other video where the release is flatter where he stays more flexed knee.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAYmhZJJ9Iu/?igshid=1aqdhxc5bn2uy


I think perhaps part of what's going on has to do with wanting to release on a higher line with the hyzers, maybe? The extension perhaps creates backward hip tilt that should? be needed to release on a higher line.

 

[RowingBoats]

One thing that jumps out at me in the slow mo of Lizotte and Gibson is what happens to the brace on the short shots that are hyzer vs. flat vs. anhyzer. Way more leg extension on hyzer than flat or anhyzer. Maybe more pronounced with Simon.

You can also see the "knee bend turns into extension" on this slow-mo of Bradley Williams. I think I've seen other video where the release is flatter where he stays more flexed knee.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAYmhZJJ9Iu/?igshid=1aqdhxc5bn2uy


I think perhaps part of what's going on has to do with wanting to release on a higher line with the hyzers, maybe? The extension perhaps creates backward hip tilt that should? be needed to release on a higher line.

I still find anhyzer to be significantly harder to do with power. The posture to achieve it feels much different to me, like its a different beast of a throw altogether.

 

[Rastnav]

I still find anhyzer to be significantly harder to do with power. The posture to achieve it feels much different to me, like its a different beast of a throw altogether.

Not sure it really helps, but this is a cool video where you get to see matched shots of Simon throwing two different angles.

https://youtu.be/fAaigbOGOHY?t=360

 

[timothy42b]

Hello everyone!

Been reading through some old posts thanks to Brychanus's Fundamentals thread.

Reading sidewinder22's post here he links to page about parametric acceleration.

That is for the golf swing (side view). If you take that as the top down view (and mirror it for RHBH) then it could be the disc golf swing correct?

My thinking is this helps me to understand the point of bracing on the front leg. Your COG is shifting forwards so by bracing on your front leg you're effectively moving in the direction of the green arrow and creating that acceleration.

Does this sounds correct? I hope so because it makes sense to me and I feel like it is helping me think more about how the stride relates to the swing.

I think there might be some misunderstanding here.

In this image the swing or throw is from left to right. The curved line is the hand path and the straight lines are clubshaft; could replace that with shoulder path and wide rail arm path for backhand maybe.

But the dots are equal time points, so the velocity between points gives you the distance and vice versa. Bigger distance between points, the faster the speed. This image shows the slowest speed at impact. Or hit, for a disc. That's probably true for an arm as it straightens. But I'm not so sure the upward pull caused it.

 

[RowingBoats]

Not sure it really helps, but this is a cool video where you get to see matched shots of Simon throwing two different angles.

https://youtu.be/fAaigbOGOHY?t=360

Haha I've seen that.

For sure, that is exactly how I feel when I do it, it just feels weaker to stand so tall for anny.

 

[Sheep]

I still find anhyzer to be significantly harder to do with power. The posture to achieve it feels much different to me, like its a different beast of a throw altogether.

Feldberg method =)

Step out so your body can work around itself better.

 

[Brychanus]

I still find anhyzer to be significantly harder to do with power. The posture to achieve it feels much different to me, like its a different beast of a throw altogether.

I've had touble here too.

Simon keeps a similar posture but does get a bit more upright in anny.

I don't know if this is the trouble for everyone, but I think part of my problem was that my body doesn't like to get as compressed into the front leg for anny, like it's trying to catch me from falling and not getting a good load and spring. It has started to help to think about getting as compressed as possible into the front leg and let it give me more vertical power. That might be related to some of the upright posture differences in the top throwers.

 

[Rastnav]

One thing that jumps out at me in the slow mo of Lizotte and Gibson is what happens to the brace on the short shots that are hyzer vs. flat vs. anhyzer. Way more leg extension on hyzer than flat or anhyzer. Maybe more pronounced with Simon.

You can also see the "knee bend turns into extension" on this slow-mo of Bradley Williams. I think I've seen other video where the release is flatter where he stays more flexed knee.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CAYmhZJJ9Iu/?igshid=1aqdhxc5bn2uy


I think perhaps part of what's going on has to do with wanting to release on a higher line with the hyzers, maybe? The extension perhaps creates backward hip tilt that should? be needed to release on a higher line.

I think I had a realization on why we should see differences in plant leg extension as releases go from hyzer to anhyzer.

Release angle should be controlled with spine angle (bent over for hyzer, leaned back for anhyzer). Spine angle should be controlled by pelvic tilt at the hips. That means that as you rotate through on a RHBH hyzer release, your right hip has to rise so that you can maintain that pelvic tilt, which necessarily involves extension of the leg.

 

[Sheep]

I've had touble here too.

Simon keeps a similar posture but does get a bit more upright in anny.

I did it the lazy way.

Look at simons feet.
This is what feldberg teaches as well.
Step out so you can get your body out of the way.


Let me find the video.

https://youtu.be/UZjEiznZfYY

Its a 39 minute video. But at one point, he really goes a bit hard on foot work and using your footwork to direct your shot shape.

Pro players dont talk about this sorta stuff much, and not many form people do either.

I think footwork is a huge huge part of the swing in general, bad footwork leads to bad everything.

This video and the one feldberg does with climo are both really good.
IN the other one he talks about some stuff similiar to the hammer throw.
And him and climo talk about not spinning out.

 

[blayed]

Feldberg method =)

Step out so your body can work around itself better.

I do this for rollers and big anny flex and it helps a lot. Stepping out and mentally picturing me "limbo"

 

[Sheep]

I do this for rollers and big anny flex and it helps a lot. Stepping out and mentally picturing me "limbo"

You should see when I throw the tilt and overstable rollers.
It looks like I'm going to do a backflip on the teepad I step out so hard. but it makes the shot easy.

 

[timothy42b]

I did it the lazy way.



Let me find the video.

https://youtu.be/UZjEiznZfYY

Its a 39 minute video.

Apologies because I should put this in the Beto thread. I have to learn to make a gif.

But this struck me. At 16:30 - 16:46 he does a slow motion hyzer, and the disc pivots smoothly out of his hand, ending up pinched between thumb and forefinger. Clearly that's where it rips from. He repeats this same sequence several more times in the video, always showing that smooth motion to the final pinch. .

That doesn't happen to me. If Beto is supposed to teach a clean release I would have to hold with finger and thumb.