Central Coast Disc Golf's Paul McBeth Video "Ask Me Anything"

[Ender175]

I think a problem with comparing to ball golf is the relative difference in length between pros and ams. In ball golf, most weekend duffers with a 15 or better handicap can hit a drive about 75-80% as far as the pros do, so putting is more important as the differentiator between pros and ams. In disc golf, McBeth can throw 600ft, where the average good to pretty good disc golfer might barely crack 400, which is only 66% of pro level, so driving is a more important differentiator between pros and ams in disc golf.
In terms of course design it means its easier to challenge both groups in ball golf than in disc golf. In ball golf they only need to push the pro tees back 20-25% of the hole length to achieve balance- not that big of a deal when laying out the course. In disc golf the pro tees need to be pushed back 50% of the hole length to achieve that same balance- a lot of extra space and work required for a layout that isn't getting used much.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The "Shots Around the Green" factor for 18 holes (mostly putts) is 11 shots higher in ball golf than DG at 41 versus 30. These factors are primarily based on the ratio of the hole to ball size and target to disc size. While we don't have to emulate ball golf, some reasons to increase our 30 factor towards ball golf's 41 are to get a more even balance between throwing and putting on our Gold courses over par 58 (most of them) and to actually have our par values be closer to the ball golf shorthand of "number of shots to the green plus 2".

Making putting more difficult for everyone is actually beneficial for those who are youngsters, less athletic and/or older because it's something they can practice to improve. It's much more difficult for youngsters, oldsters and the less athletic to improve their distance sufficiently if courses are made more challenging simply by length.

Another aspect to keep in mind is more wooded courses increase the difficulty for top pros but also make it more difficult for spectators. Making the target area smaller increases the challenge and still allows more open venues for video and spectating.

I do disagree that making the width smaller is a better approach than reducing the vertical window because it will be easier to temporarily reduce the vertical window height with field modifications on existing baskets and producing new baskets with cylinders that can be moved up or down to temporarily narrow the height for tournaments.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

To New's point, the only sport where I can think of a pro/am difference in equipment or playing field is bowling, where the professional tour uses a completely different set of oil patterns than any am is going to see at their local bowling alley. There are a handful of amateur "sport bowling" leagues that will allow ams to shoot on these patterns, but I'm not sure how many exist. Regardless, the pro tour oil patterns are markedly more difficult than any "house shot" at the am league level.
/thread drift

 

[Cgkdisc]

Three point line at a different distance in basketball.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

Three point line at a different distance in basketball.

Ah, yes. Good one.
And wood bats in baseball. (Not sure if collegiate ball went to wood or is still metal?)

 

[BirdieMachine]

I don't think a smaller basket would hurt the game at all, really how many chuckers even know people play professionally. You're avg player has no clue who McBeth is. Maybe they saw his name on their disc, but they couldn't pick him out in a crowd.

I see it as a win for viewership, the course and players. Get rid of the silly mandos and ropes. It shouldn't be automatic to get up and down from 250 wide open. Putting needs to be more difficult. Reward accuracy and good putting.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

To New's point, the only sport where I can think of a pro/am difference in equipment or playing field is bowling,
/thread drift

:doh:

 

[Broken Shoulder]

:doh:

Lol, did you read the rest?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

YEP! lol... Do you or New have a clue what you are talking about?! I think not.

Nearly all sports at a professional level are different from when played rec, amature, on a XYZ league and so on from the rules to the equipment.

 

[onemilemore]

I understand how, as a pro who wants to see the continued growth of the sport so his career will be prolonged, Paul would want longer, more open courses. It would make it easier for filming and spectators, which would give a greater possibility of widespread exposure.

To me, though, it seems disc golf truly is driven more by the amateur player, and as a result I don't think wide open courses will lend much benefit. I'd rather see the use of drones or go pros in the woods to film tighter lines and trickier shots.

Plus, I would like to see more wooded courses to make scoring less absurd. These tourneys where players are 30 and 40 down at the end don't scream "challenging." I think totals of 10 or 15 under would lend some more drama.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

To Aim: Eh, fair point. I think it's analogous to the smaller baskets at NTs and Majors, as discussed though. Specifically as an individual sport where all else remains the same save for a tweak to up the difficulty at the pro level.
But I get what you're saying.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I understand how, as a pro who wants to see the continued growth of the sport so his career will be prolonged, Paul would want longer, more open courses. It would make it easier for filming and spectators, which would give a greater possibility of widespread exposure.

To me, though, it seems disc golf truly is driven more by the amateur player, and as a result I don't think wide open courses will lend much benefit. I'd rather see the use of drones or go pros in the woods to film tighter lines and trickier shots.

Plus, I would like to see more wooded courses to make scoring less absurd. These tourneys where players are 30 and 40 down at the end don't scream "challenging." I think totals of 10 or 15 under would lend some more drama.

Smaller baskets would help without changing anything else to a more open course. Im not even a good putter and think its too easy. I can hand someone a disc who is semi athletic and they can bang a 15-20' putt its nothing like a ball golf putt or even Bball freethrow IMO.

I do agree championship level courses might not "grow" the sport numbers but could help with some kind of viable spectator format (but meh) and the wooded courses are a disaster for spectating and filming so hard in that sense to "grow" the coverage lol.

 

[ToddL]

But I'm also not a fan of the ropes, to me if you need ropes to make a challenge then the course was designed poorly. I do think if putting was harder that could negate the ropes also.

At least with Winthrop Gold, the ropes are necessary to balance the needs of having a hard course with the course being spectator friendly. Harold Duvall obviously doesn't shy away from heavily wooded courses for a lot of his designs, but he's also not expecting a few thousand spectators at Castle Hayne.

 

[grotto]

I think the artificial rope OB's are ridicules for the most part and give Winthrop that gimmicky carnival golf atmosphere. Just call the holes par 3's and let the pro's rip the discs, It's what films the best and what the fans want to see anyway.

I think the worlds this year had a nice balance of risk/reward layout while still being film able.

 

[gdub58]

While they don't make the hole larger for lower levels of ball golf, they do manipulate the difficulty by making the greens faster, the rough longer, and the pin placements more difficult for the top level players. Some courses even undergo significant redesign before they are allowed to host a major.

I know that's not changing the equipment, but it is still consistent with the idea that for certain tournaments the course would play differently than what would normally be experienced.

There's only so much that can be done with OB ropes or mandos on disc golf courses, so the idea of a more difficult target isn't that out of line IMO. As long as the pros had the chance to practice on them beforehand then what's the downside?

 

[joecoin]

this is all just wrong. kids stop playing on the little soccer goals at U6, are you really trying to use that as your example to prove that kids wanting to play the same game as pros is bogus? yes you're so right those four year olds out there clearly aren't looking up to pros and dont care what goal they're using.
... in disc golf size of the kids has nothing to do with it and it has everything to do with skill level...

do lower level tennis players use a lower net? do second tier tour golfers use giant holes? do amateur bowlers have wider balls?

Do beginning disc golfers throw Rampages, Cannons and Misselins? Of course they do, but not for long. Do Pro disc golfers throw Wolfs?

 

[onemilemore]

Smaller baskets would help without changing anything else to a more open course. Im not even a good putter and think its too easy. I can hand someone a disc who is semi athletic and they can bang a 15-20' putt its nothing like a ball golf putt or even Bball freethrow IMO.

I do agree championship level courses might not "grow" the sport numbers but could help with some kind of viable spectator format (but meh) and the wooded courses are a disaster for spectating and filming so hard in that sense to "grow" the coverage lol.

For sure. I'd actually rather see smaller baskets being the thing that makes the pro game progress more than longer courses, personally. But I have also always been of the mind that I would, 99 days out of 100, play disc golf rather than watch it. So I'm not exactly McBeth's target audience for the argument.

I really do think that disc golf being more of a participant sport than spectator sport is what not only makes it great, but also keeps it where it is. Not a bad thing, in my opinion.

 

[allinpflop]

If someone from the outside who had never seen or heard of disc golf stumbled across Pauls video disc golf would have nothing to be embarrassed about. Paul handles himself very professionally which is why it's so easy for me to root for him. Good luck this year in my hometown for worlds.

 

[shawny0123]

Changing the most expensive piece of the sport seems like the worst possible solution. Perhaps a better solution would be to limit the disc speed rating allowed to be thrown by pros in events. Similar to ball golf where your average Joe Shmoe can buy the big bertha 5000x but it is an illegal driver in PGA events.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The quick way to change the ratio is to require pros to throw Ultra-Star diameter (27cm) and height discs for throws within 10m or even 15m of the target. No course investment required.