Course design with the 75 Year-old in mind

[Sadjo]

I just closed a Course Development/Design project yesterday. I will be designing a course for a retired doctor. He first approached me last August after I did a Disc Golf demo at a Rotary Club in Clayton, GA.

We have visited and talked about a course on his property ever since. After a visit last week, he is now convinced that he wants to play Disc Golf during his morning walks around his property.

How long should a hole be when designing for a 75 year-old retired man?

I'm think everything being no longer than 175-200' with a few in the 80-120' range. Being that the course is primarily for him to play and enjoy some time with his kids and grand kids (who visit once a year and they play where they live) I don't think anything needs to be terribly long.

There will be no tees. The plan is, being the course is going to be his private course, he will just throw from basket to basket.

I've included some pictures from the property...which is 36 acres with three retention ponds and a small creek. Nothing close to the water for obvious reasons.

Thoughts?

 

[Guurn]

You underestimate what someone can do with moderate skill. I would suggest either asking what his typical round looks like or just play a round or 2 with him. If he is sort of like the older people I play with I would suggest up to 320' with nothing under 150'. His grandkids will still have fun and the walk won't be too short.

 

[mashnut]

Since you're throwing basket to basket, I'd consider how the course plays both forward and backward, since it's on private property you don't have to worry about groups playing both directions at once. I think Guurn is right that you should spend some time throwing with him, get a good idea of how he actually throws.

 

[apparition]

I'm not sure it's necessary to keep the holes that short, but keep in mind that if you design it specifically to play hole-to-hole, length can easily be added by skipping baskets (play hole 1 to hole 3).

 

[Sadjo]

He has never played before. When we met a week ago, he bought 4 discs from me and decided to throw around the property. That was how he decided if he wanted to move forward with the project.

With no tees, I think the options of throwing from most anywhere is always available. But he was specific about throwing from hole to hole and he did talk about about reversing that order and playing both ways.

The first basket will be place, per his direction, underneath a large oak. He will throw there from just outside his front door and the course will go on from there.

 

[coupe]

Based on the fact that the Dr. is taking up disc golf, I assume he's reasonsbly healthy and relatively vigorous for his age, and that there are no physiological disabilities that would limit his dexterity or range of motion.

Given that, and the fact that he wants to incorporate dg into his regular morning walks, I would suspect that he will relatively quickly surpass the 175-200' barrier, especially if he learns to throw a forehand roller (which provides the maximum distance for the least strain and for that reason is the technique of choice in the Senior Legends division), and become frustrated by the relative lack of challenge posed by such short holes. For that reason, I would be inclined to push the max length out toward 300'.

I would suggest you find out how far those walks typically are and base the total length of the course accordingly (within reason, of course: obviously, if he walks a mile, it wouldn't make sense to put in a bunch of 500-600' holes if he only wants 9 holes).

I would also suggest asking if he has a regular path or favorite spots that he likes to visit every/most day/s, and incorporate them into the course flow.

 

[jeverett]

Given that, and the fact that he wants to incorporate dg into his regular morning walks, I would suspect that he will relatively quickly surpass the 175-200' barrier, especially if he learns to throw a forehand roller (which provides the maximum distance for the least strain and for that reason is the technique of choice in the Senior Legends division), and become frustrated by the relative lack of challenge posed by such short holes. For that reason, I would be inclined to push the max length out toward 300'.

I'd tend to agree with this.. the closest skill level bracket sounds like it might be 'red' (850 rating).. which by close-range-par standards comes out at a full-power drive at 260ft., and a close-range (up and down in 2 roughly 90% of the time) at 70ft., for a maximum (Par 3) hole length of 330ft.. although birdies at that distance would be scarce.

Walking with him and seeing how he plays/throws definitely sounds like a good idea, too.

 

[BrotherDave]

I'd take a lid like a SuperHero and just walk around the property playing frolf style for hole ideas. I like the idea of keeping the holes short but you might be able to design the course so that on the way back he can pick to keep playing short holes or safari over to other baskets for a 300' or so.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I think the previous people have raised some good points. Keep in mind in addition to fairway shape and elevation changes, varying lengths adds a bit of variety, and helps keep a course from feeling repetitive. If he starts playing frequently he's bound to increase his distance (at least initially).

Also, if the property has any really woodsy land, you might be able to make good use of it by putting shortening holes to 170-230 that require some shot shaping and control to not fly past "off the tee." Also shortening those holes might allow you to squeeze one or two more into the woods to help the course achieve a more balanced feel overall.... assuming there are some woods to work with.

And keep any elevation changes minimal. He might be OK now, but that could change.

 

[Sadjo]

Good input. The property is 36 acres and the house sits at the highest point. One thing he was hoping for is a reason to walk parts of the property he feels he isn't finding reason to explore.

My Dad is 71 one and has been playing Disc Golf for as long as I have and he is in decent shape and I have had several conversations with him.

With no real tees...I think basket placement as far as interesting greens might be more important than total length from one basket to the next.

I ordered the baskets today. They're shipping April 15th and we will start installation the following Saturday.

 

[B3NDER]

Make sure you have signs to remind players to take their meds

All jokes aside, I still know not to underestimate older players, as their form and knowledge far outweigh my physical "fitness" so I wouldn't automatically assume longer holes are a no-no.

 

[mashnut]

One thing to keep in mind for the folks talking about quick improvement, that's going to be a less steep learning curve for someone older who doesn't have the speed and flexibility of many beginning disc golfers. The ceiling is a little lower on distance, so creating an old school/super class style course with shorter but interesting and challenging holes is going to have the highest potential for being fun for the owner and for his grandkids.

 

[Sadjo]

Had the chance to talk with several folks today. I think with no set tees and the plan to make his morning walks more interesting the distance isn't the main thing as much as making interesting shots and greens.

I'm meeting with him again this week and will talk with him more about distances and flow.

 

[oldguy]

Something else for consideration is maintenance. The property owner probably isn't going to want to spend large amounts of time maintaining the course. This means that long grass could make his course decidely unfun during certain times of year (here in California, that's right now). A morning walk spent hunting for plastic in grass will be frustrating for the good doctor. I might suggest keeping this in mind when looking at hole length and basket locations.

 

[Sadjo]

He has a gardener that maintains the grass. He maintains the flower beds himself. I'll post more pictures this week.

 

[Sadjo]

This is a rendering of one of the holes. I was out there this morning but didn't bring my camera.

Anyway...he has an area where he planted 50 or so pine trees 20 years ago. We're going to put a hole within the trees. It will be about 120' with the widest gap between trees about 15-20' and the tightest gap about 12'.

Surrounding this little area of trees is just grass. So it will act as a wooded hole surrounded by openness.

I really think this will be a fun hole and will offer a challenge...not only to him but to his kids and grand kids as well.

 

[Sadjo]

Just found out that the doctor and his wife will be out of town all next week. That gives me whole extra week to fine tune the design. I'll carry a sport out and get plenty of pictures and will gauge distance and see if I can get some feedback here.

Once he gets back I will install the first basket and he'll do the rest.


Adam

 

[NOStheBOSS]

I dream of the day when I can walk out my front door and onto the first tee

 

[Sadjo]

I spent a couple of hours yesterday evening taking pictures and looking at different lines. I'm very excited about the possibilities. I do wish we could bring the water into play but I was told that he doesn't want to be near the water because he doesn't want to spend his time fishing discs out of the ponds.

I'll post pictures of some of the water shots in future posts.

The pictures I've attached show the tee shot and landing area/green for hole #2 and the tee for what will be hole #3 or #4.

I'd love some feedback.

 

[Sadjo]

Here's 3 more pictures from the property. I was hoping to start on the project...installation...this week but the baskets haven't arrived yet and I just lost a staff member today so I will be working some overtime.

These pictures show some of the diversity of the property. I can only imagine how much fun a course here could be if I was designing for myself and not someone else.

The last picture is taken from just in front of the porch on the house looking right to where you drive into the property. The pond is one of three on the property.