Disc Golf World Tour

[filobedo]

The main thing that I see helping disc golf is the increasing popularity in ultimate.

Ultimate will continue to grow because of college kids that have the means to play it. I know the College of Charleston has had a difficult time finding students to play dg but the Ultimate club is evidently very popular . I also read an article in a airline magazine (still not sure why the PDGA will not publish a dg article in one of these magazines as everyone I see on planes looks at these due to boredom and the articles are interesting) a couple of years ago about Quidditch (I must have been the only person in the world that did not know about this) and how there are around 500 different college teams that spent funds on this which attracted some Ultimate players.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Thanks, I didn't know this happened. But I still say this will not be sustainable. If a major sponsor is willing to put money into a disc golf event they would need to see this a lot more often vs just once.

I'm also one of the naysayers but know I could be proven wrong in the future. But for the past 30 years disc golf has been "5 years away from breaking into the big time" and nothing here is giving me any more confidence that's going to happen anytime soon.

. Those numbers look great but its an entire different beast in the USA vs finland. You could get that many views on accident if it was put on a decent channel. Popular shows or events here bring in 10s of millions and records into 100s of millions with actual worldwide events reaching billions of viewers.

I dunt see it evaaa.

 

[OhSnap]

Thanks for the compliment. One important factor that's not being mentioned is that it was competition that improved the breed or rather brand. Americans are suckers for a good against all odds type of story.

Golf hit the big time because of a front page story in the NYT in 1911 about a caddy beating the pros in a big tournament. It was a classic local boy makes good and people ate it up. Once people were paying attention charismatic everyman players took it to the next level.

Another good example is skateboarding. It shares alot in common with us. It too was a popular fad that faded. What brought it back was competition. Remember the X Games and the 900.

Meresmaa is barking up the right tree in my opinion.

 

[OhSnap]

Playing the same course three days in a row. I think it is fine sometimes, but I don't think it necessarily makes for better disc golf like Jussi thinks it does. I understand and salute an effort to focus on a single more quality course, but if you have multiple great courses in an area I think it is foolish to not use all of them. Jussi wants to attract more spectators. I would rather watch disc golf on multiple courses.

I'm all for taking ideas from golf but only if they fit into disc golf. I think it is great that Jussi is trying to grow the sport, but the answer isn't always to try and be more like ball golf. I think we risk losing things about disc golf that are fun and unique to disc golf.

Agreed. I think where the St Jude fell down was that it was not enough of a unique product. This is why I dislike big promoted tournamnts on ball golf courses. It just does not differentiate the product and makes us look like aa bastardized side show. Disc Golf is interesting enough on its own to showcase. This is why I think wooded courses done well and that are easy to film, WR Jackson, are more compelling.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Disc golf will be like NHRA. Played regularly at 2AM or cut off due to other sports running long and even biggest coverage #s would look similar.

[The elimination round of the NHRA Summit Racing Nationals from Ohio drew 678,000 viewers on ESPN Sunday]

And this ranks as their 2nd highest viewing audience. They have 40k-100k spectators at the events too. Most people have no idea what NHRA is.

 

[filobedo]

Agreed. I think where the St Jude fell down was that it was not enough of a unique product. This is why I dislike big promoted tournamnts on ball golf courses. It just does not differentiate the product and makes us look like aa bastardized side show. Disc Golf is interesting enough on its own to showcase. This is why I think wooded courses done well and that are easy to film, WR Jackson, are more compelling.

I agree that woods golf is much more interesting but too difficult logistically to have spectators due to limited space.

 

[OhSnap]

I agree that woods golf is much more interesting but too difficult logistically to have spectators due to limited space.

I agree its a problem but woods golf is unique and difficult. Difficulty, to get back to the main topic, is an easy sell in an alternative sport.

 

[Darkgreen]

I agree its a problem but woods golf is unique and difficult. Difficulty, to get back to the main topic, is an easy sell in an alternative sport.

Ya, this is a tough one. I understand wanting to have a great live experience for lots of people, but I don't want to give up woods golf to do that. The good part about this is I think woods golf shows up great on internet video and on television. Though I know not everyone agrees with me on that.

 

[onemilemore]

There's plenty of organic grass-level roots growth. Probably more than is needed, if the number of sub-par 9-hole beginner courses is any indication.

What DG needs (for those that want to see it gain more "legitimacy"*) is a Pro Tour that makes playing at the top level something worth putting the time and work into, with increased/improved coverage, and improved payouts.

I'm certainly interested to see how this shakes out, in both the long and short term.



*I'm not necessarily one of those people, for the record.

There is definitely grassroots growth, but I can't help but think that trying to put some money into getting disc golf into PE programs or organized recreational events would make more sense than a pro tour that caters to a handful of individuals. Or, like you said, make it two-fold and have both happening.

All I'm saying is, if there is a pro tour to which to aspire, there needs to be a player base, as well. Having more young kids play will make the competition stronger, as well.

I'm also in the not worried about legitimacy field so this is all just good conversation. But I've always kind of felt this notion that disc golf should be built up so a small number of professionals could make a career out of it was a little odd.

 

[Jukeshoe]

There is definitely grassroots growth, but I can't help but think that trying to put some money into getting disc golf into PE programs or organized recreational events would make more sense than a pro tour that caters to a handful of individuals. Or, like you said, make it two-fold and have both happening.

All I'm saying is, if there is a pro tour to which to aspire, there needs to be a player base, as well. Having more young kids play will make the competition stronger, as well.

I'm also in the not worried about legitimacy field so this is all just good conversation. But I've always kind of felt this notion that disc golf should be built up so a small number of professionals could make a career out of it was a little odd.

I guess it comes down to a Bottom Up approach vs. a Top Down approach.

One centers on growing the base of the sport (e.g., PE programs/youth outreach) in order to build up the pro tour in the long term based on organic growth in the short term.

The other strives to create a product that showcases the best-of-the-best with an eye towards presenting well towards potential sponsors, spectators, and gives lesser players a "pantheon" to strive towards.

 

[Cgkdisc]

A surefire way that's always worked and will continue to work to increase the number of players is installing courses where there are lots of people AND being fortunate to discover locals willing to run activities at the course AND retail location(s) selling gear.

 

[lyleoross]

Whammo

Last time I checked, Innova makes more than Whammo, but maybe I'm wrong....

 

[lyleoross]

259000 live viewers last summer.

http://www.opendiscgolf.com/2015/07/24/eo2015-makes-waves-in-media/

I really don't get why disc golf couldn't be a spectator sport. Ball golf is, why not disc golf?

Ball golf is driven by the very cost of the product. Because the gear and play is so expensive, you bring in a lot more money, and sponsorship money. It will be hard for disc golf to match that.

Disc golf is limited by both cash, and participation. Running events are relatively cheap, as is gear, and location, but when you can shove 5,000 participants into your event, you get cache, and cash.

 

[tbird888]

Last time I checked, Innova makes more than Whammo, but maybe I'm wrong....

I'm pretty sure he's referencing the effort Wham-O! had already made back in the day to create the pro tour and its subsequent media coverage. This move by Jussi and crew is far from revolutionary.

 

[lyleoross]

It is possible that some are reading this wrong. By appearances, spectator participation in Europe is significantly higher than it is in the US. What if the model is to drive spectator participation, via TV, by including US events in a bundle with European events? By making a tour with the big US and European events, you drive more European players over here, and you drive viewership there first.

While such a series won't necessarily impact the US, if you have a big impact in Europe, particularly in Northern Europe, you might get a big boost and a win for everyone. I suspect that Innova is interested because they see a potential to drive sales against, or with Latitude. Furthermore, the European events that have wide impact are by my measure, two. With this, you add substance and gravitas to the sport that could not happen there without a significant amount of effort.

As an aside, by my measure, this project is laying out like what I would expect a corporation to do. It looks less "disc golfish" and more like business analysis. It carries a risk, but for Innova, that risk is mitigated by a huge chunk of exposure in a fast growing market that they may have to cede to Latitude. Even if they lose on the event, the exposure and sales as a long term goal might be worth the risk. Given Innova's long term investment in growing markets, this seems a no brainer.

 

[lyleoross]

I'm pretty sure he's referencing the effort Wham-O! had already made back in the day to create the pro tour and its subsequent media coverage. This move by Jussi and crew is far from revolutionary.

I may be wrong, but my impression of Whammo's efforts here is less than substantial. There are two things to keep in mind, timing, and timing. Well that and the fact that Whammo often made fun of the sport, and didn't take it seriously. Okay, so there was an effort, and what's going on now isn't novel, why would it matter one way or another to the current situation? MLS was, I believe, the second or third attempt at a national soccer league. No one would argue that it isn't successful.

The resources that Innova, and the sport, has today, and can bring to this effort, are substantial compared to what Whammo did, and as I implied above, Innova seems to be a tad bit more substantial and mature than Whammo was, and is.

 

[schumijr]

It is possible that some are reading this wrong. By appearances, spectator participation in Europe is significantly higher than it is in the US. What if the model is to drive spectator participation, via TV, by including US events in a bundle with European events? By making a tour with the big US and European events, you drive more European players over here, and you drive viewership there first.

While such a series won't necessarily impact the US, if you have a big impact in Europe, particularly in Northern Europe, you might get a big boost and a win for everyone. I suspect that Innova is interested because they see a potential to drive sales against, or with Latitude. Furthermore, the European events that have wide impact are by my measure, two. With this, you add substance and gravitas to the sport that could not happen there without a significant amount of effort.

As an aside, by my measure, this project is laying out like what I would expect a corporation to do. It looks less "disc golfish" and more like business analysis. It carries a risk, but for Innova, that risk is mitigated by a huge chunk of exposure in a fast growing market that they may have to cede to Latitude. Even if they lose on the event, the exposure and sales as a long term goal might be worth the risk. Given Innova's long term investment in growing markets, this seems a no brainer.

This guy gets it. :thmbup:

 

[Agricolae]

This guy gets it. :thmbup:

My impression as well.

I'd be interested to hear how Jussi will measure "success" with this venture. "Success" does not have to depend on the US spectator market. One of the most popular sports in the world is no more than a niche sport in the US.

 

[tbird888]

My impression as well.

I'd be interested to hear how Jussi will measure "success" with this venture. "Success" does not have to depend on the US spectator market. One of the most popular sports in the world is no more than a niche sport in the US.

If you're talking about soccer, it's far from niche anymore. In the 80s (and 90s to an extent) when I was playing it, yes. Today, after decades of promotion to youths, its popularity is evident. It's still not the most popular sport in the country, but it's far from bringing up the rear.

 

[Agricolae]

If you're talking about soccer, it's far from niche anymore. In the 80s (and 90s to an extent) when I was playing it, yes. Today, after decades of promotion to youths, its popularity is evident. It's still not the most popular sport in the country, but it's far from bringing up the rear.

Yes, I was alluding to soccer (as we Americans uniquely call it. ) And, I agree, that soccer does not 'bring up the rear' in US sports. My opinion and (false?) observation is that the European audience may be more receptive to a professional DG tour as a spectator sport, and, that "success" of Jussi's venture may not need to entirely depend on how well it does in the US.