Disc Golf World Tour

[tbird888]

I may be wrong, but my impression of Whammo's efforts here is less than substantial. There are two things to keep in mind, timing, and timing. Well that and the fact that Whammo often made fun of the sport, and didn't take it seriously. Okay, so there was an effort, and what's going on now isn't novel, why would it matter one way or another to the current situation? MLS was, I believe, the second or third attempt at a national soccer league. No one would argue that it isn't successful.

The resources that Innova, and the sport, has today, and can bring to this effort, are substantial compared to what Whammo did, and as I implied above, Innova seems to be a tad bit more substantial and mature than Whammo was, and is.

I wasn't arguing. Just providing some insight into his comment that it looked like you missed.

Also, Wham-O! put disc golf on national television with big corporate sponsors (Pizza Hut and Budweiser in the videos I've seen). That really doesn't sound like a company who thinks of their product as a joke to me.

 

[JC17393]

If you're talking about soccer, it's far from niche anymore. In the 80s (and 90s to an extent) when I was playing it, yes. Today, after decades of promotion to youths, its popularity is evident. It's still not the most popular sport in the country, but it's far from bringing up the rear.

I don't think that was his point, though. Soccer was a monster sport outside of the US for a long long time before it ever really took hold at all. While there have always been enthusiasts for the sport here, it took decades for it to grow to where it is now.

It's entirely possible that Europe could be the proving ground for a viable pro tour (with spectators, sponsors, and sustainable prize purses) that the US has failed to become. Maybe the future of the pro game is seeing our most talented players not spending a week or two weeks in Europe each year but entire seasons, and making a sustainable living by doing so.

Until recently, that was how American soccer players had to make their living in the game, by getting into a European League. Some professional women's basketball players spend their WNBA off-season doubling and tripling their salary playing in Russian leagues (or at least they did a few years ago).

Nothing's going to happen overnight, of course, but nothing's going to happen at all unless somebody makes the attempt. Jussi is making that attempt. I'm anxious to see how it goes.

 

[JNichols]

I am excited to see what comes of Jussi's vision. I Hope it works and accompanies what the NT and the positive parts of what is currently offered. I do wonder, at this point, how much these events will be Team Innova/Discmania player showcases, to start, anyway. Time will tell.

 

[tbird888]

Yes, I was alluding to soccer (as we Americans uniquely call it. ) And, I agree, that soccer does not 'bring up the rear' in US sports. My opinion and (false?) observation is that the European audience may be more receptive to a professional DG tour as a spectator sport, and, that "success" of Jussi's venture may not need to entirely depend on how well it does in the US.

I agree. The good thing is we've got enough of a grassroots foundation built that we don't really "need" this effort to continue growing as quickly as we have been. The rest of the world doesn't have that luxury. Some more focus here on the upper level can't hurt though. It's a game to me, but I like the push to establish it as a sport.

Regardless, I'm interested to see what they come up with on the video front and will enjoy any coverage they produce.

 

[hook_nuts]

Not sure what your inferring here. I do play often and see lots of very civilized groups playing, but the stoner crowd is the loudest and most noticeable and when ever I talk to strangers in the park who don't play the game, I'm always amazed at their reaction when I tell them about the sport. More than once I've gotten that dumb surprised stare and them saying, oh, I thought it was a hippie/stoner/trouble makers game.

Conversion one person at a time I guess.

No, ESPN doesn't make a sport "professional".

I'm calling bs on all of that, unless reefer madness is true?

 

[tbird888]

I don't think that was his point, though. Soccer was a monster sport outside of the US for a long long time before it ever really took hold at all. While there have always been enthusiasts for the sport here, it took decades for it to grow to where it is now.

It's entirely possible that Europe could be the proving ground for a viable pro tour (with spectators, sponsors, and sustainable prize purses) that the US has failed to become. Maybe the future of the pro game is seeing our most talented players not spending a week or two weeks in Europe each year but entire seasons, and making a sustainable living by doing so.

Until recently, that was how American soccer players had to make their living in the game, by getting into a European League. Some professional women's basketball players spend their WNBA off-season doubling and tripling their salary playing in Russian leagues (or at least they did a few years ago).

Nothing's going to happen overnight, of course, but nothing's going to happen at all unless somebody makes the attempt. Jussi is making that attempt. I'm anxious to see how it goes.

Soccer grew slowly here and in a way that it could sustain itself through its growth and beyond (unlike poker and the other sports that "exploded onto the scene"), just like disc golf has also been doing for decades. Do you really want disc golf to be an overnight sensation that has its fifteen minutes and disappears?

Innova's investing in the company, not the events. Without someone like Nate from the Ledgestone dedicated to raising payouts, there's no guarantee that golfers will make enough to actually sustain a living, especially with a smaller payout percentage. It's more than just Jussi's team that needs to step up. I appreciate that he's taking the chance. Much like DavidSauls, I'm skeptical is all.

 

[scarpfish]

Disc golf will be like NHRA. Played regularly at 2AM or cut off due to other sports running long and even biggest coverage #s would look similar.

[The elimination round of the NHRA Summit Racing Nationals from Ohio drew 678,000 viewers on ESPN Sunday]

And this ranks as their 2nd highest viewing audience. They have 40k-100k spectators at the events too. Most people have no idea what NHRA is.

And I believe the NHRA pays ESPN for that coverage to boot, not the other way around.

 

[MurderMike41370]

The first thing that came to mind when I read that they are negotiating with the PDGA

 

[scarpfish]

I don't think that was his point, though. Soccer was a monster sport outside of the US for a long long time before it ever really took hold at all. While there have always been enthusiasts for the sport here, it took decades for it to grow to where it is now.

And it only got that way by taking the "build from the base" approach where soccer enthusiasts invested a generation in getting youth to play the game and grow up with it, rather than the trickle down "bring in Pele and Franz Beckenbauer" sideshow that was the NASL.

 

[OhSnap]

And I believe the NHRA pays ESPN for that coverage to boot, not the other way around.

Also the NHRA is a poor analogy. Its more of a entertainment than participation sport. Its more akin to Cirque Du Solis. Those cars are ridiculously amazing. As such different market dynamics and rules apply.

Analogies are by definition not perfect. Unlike Golf, Skateboarding, Snowboarding, etc. What disc golf has going for it is easy participation by all age, gender, economic, and fitness levels. Marketed correctly with compelling content (competition, content, personalities, and venues) on a national or international level and the participation will flow from the courses to the galleries. And the money will flow with it. It will not be easy.

 

[scarpfish]

Marketed correctly with compelling content (competition, content, personalities, and venues) on a national or international level and the participation will flow from the courses to the galleries. And the money will flow with it.

We've been hearing people say that for decades now.

It will not be easy.

Its even harder yet when the grow the sport dreamers keep trying to sell a vision of the sport that most people who play it aren't buying.

 

[OhSnap]

We've been hearing people say that for decades now.


Its even harder yet when the grow the sport dreamers keep trying to sell a vision of the sport that most people who play it aren't buying.

I'm really a play the sport type of guy. I don't pretend to know whats good for this game.

However, that's what marketing is. Selling a vision to people who don't yet use your product. Thats exactly what Meresmaa is trying to do. It seems he is using Ball Golf and skateboarding among others as models. Correctly in my opinion.

If you look to what made those sports boom in participation he is barking up the right tree. Ball golf boomed during the turn of the last century because of America. Advanced manufacturing techniques made possible by the industrial revolution made equipment cheap and inexpensive or free to play park style courses were springing up all over. Sound familiar? What made the sport take off was a 20 year old caddy and amateur from the northeast named Francis Ouimet. He came out of nowhere to win the US Open in 1913. The story of poor David vs the rich Goliath's resonated and made the front page of the New York Times. Compelling Competitive Content made the game. Participation spiked and so did the galleries.

Take Skateboarding. In the late 90s the bloom had been off the fad for nearly a decade. Sound Familiar? The X-Games and compelling competitive content (Tony Hawk) sparked the second coming of the craze.

 

[DanJon]

Skateboarding isn't a good comparison for growth in our industry.

They sold the lifestyle aspect of skateboarding.

That's how it blew up.

How many people do you see wearing Skate apparel (DC?) that don't even skateboard?

Plus it's an extreme sport with the opportunity for big slams and carnage (spectators/viewers).

 

[Stardoggy]

Skateboarding isn't a good comparison for growth in our industry.

They sold the lifestyle aspect of skateboarding.

That's how it blew up.

How many people do you see wearing Skate apparel (DC?) that don't even skateboard?

Plus it's an extreme sport with the opportunity for big slams and carnage (spectators/viewers).

Obviously you've never been hit in the back of the head with a Destroyer.

 

[Jay Dub]

Obviously you've never been hit in the back of the head with a Destroyer.

Yeah, because that happens at every tournament I've been to...

 

[Stardoggy]

Yeah, because that happens at every tournament I've been to...

Just groups of 12 at WW.

 

[DanJon]

Obviously you've never been hit in the back of the head with a Destroyer.

No just the front of the head with a CE Eagle.

 

[scarpfish]

Maybe we can make a combination of disc golf and dodgeball.

And I mean with real golf discs, not these.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Also the NHRA is a poor analogy. Its more of a entertainment than participation sport. Its more akin to Cirque Du Solis. Those cars are ridiculously amazing. As such different market dynamics and rules apply.

Analogies are by definition not perfect. Unlike Golf, Skateboarding, Snowboarding, etc. What disc golf has going for it is easy participation by all age, gender, economic, and fitness levels. Marketed correctly with compelling content (competition, content, personalities, and venues) on a national or international level and the participation will flow from the courses to the galleries. And the money will flow with it. It will not be easy.

Except the fact its the entertainment which is trying to be sold via media for ads and the biggest ROI. If its not entertaining its hard to keep $ around broadcasting.

 

[Tpro]

I mean he's got a five year plan....