Disc Golf World Tour

[scarpfish]

Also, Disc Golf is exponentially MORE popular in Europe than the US. Look at course growth in European countries, comparatively. No contest.

What about it? The ratio of American courses to European ones has gotten closer since 2010, but still, more than 75% of DGC installations in the world are still done in the U.S.

2010-2015 course installs based on the DGCR directory

U.S. - 2180
Canada - 65
rest of world (which is more than just Europe but likely overwhelmingly Europe) - 501

Breakdown by European country
Finland - 259
Germany - 46
Czech Republic - 28
Denmark - 17
France - 15
Estonia - 14
U.K. - 11
Norway - 9
Sweeden - 8
Austria - 8
Slovak Republic - 5
Belgium - 3
Latvia - 2
Netherlands - 2
Spain - 2
Poland - 2
Switzerland - 1
Italy - 1

Of those 501 courses, 379 are in the first six countries on the list. So with respect to Finland and maybe a few other nations, they have some impressive growth. Outside of that, nothing exceptional. I find the slow growth in Norway and Sweeden to be befuddling.

 

[dontBLAMEtheDISC]

What about it? The ratio of American courses to European ones has gotten closer since 2010, but still, more than 75% of DGC installations in the world are still done in the U.S.

2010-2015 course installs based on the DGCR directory

U.S. - 2180
Canada - 65
rest of world (which is more than just Europe but likely overwhelmingly Europe) - 501

Breakdown by European country
Finland - 259
Germany - 46
Czech Republic - 28
Denmark - 17
France - 15
Estonia - 14
U.K. - 11
Norway - 9
Sweeden - 8
Austria - 8
Slovak Republic - 5
Belgium - 3
Latvia - 2
Netherlands - 2
Spain - 2
Poland - 2
Switzerland - 1
Italy - 1

Of those 501 courses, 379 are in the first six countries on the list. So with respect to Finland and maybe a few other nations, they have some impressive growth. Outside of that, nothing exceptional. I find the slow growth in Norway and Sweeden to be befuddling.

Yeah sure our numbers look impressive but considering that Finland is slightly smaller than the state of Montana. Then you realize that their numbers are more impressive.

 

[scarpfish]

Yeah sure our numbers look impressive but considering that Finland is slightly smaller than the state of Montana. Then you realize that their numbers are more impressive.

Here's another stat. Number of courses in Finland prior to 2010 -- only 75. Compared to 89 in Sweeden, 29 in Denmark, 26 in Germany, 16 in Norway, 4 in Estonia, none in the Czech Republic.

Draw what conclusions from that you may.

 

[dontBLAMEtheDISC]

Here's another stat. Number of courses in Finland prior to 2010 -- only 75. Compared to 89 in Sweeden, 29 in Denmark, 26 in Germany, 16 in Norway, 4 in Estonia, none in the Czech Republic.

Draw what conclusions from that you may.

Granted this could be off by a couple numbers but quick research shows that we have 26 states with less then 75 courses and 12 states with less then 40 courses as of checking online today.
Draw what conclusions from that you may.

 

[Star Shark]

This has always been my issue with the NT circuit - and now the DGWT - in general. If you want to attract the top pros, most of whom make very little money, why not make a tour that is actually a tour, like a band does? How many bands hop back and forth across the country? It generally runs in a logical layout that reduces travel between gigs. This is something that should be addressed for the success of future tours.

A huge problem we have in DG is that most of our courses are in public parks. We can't schedule a tourney the same weekend every year because there's a wedding over on hole 5 and some cubscouts taking 15 and 16. Until our courses are on privately owned land that we can control, this will continue to be an issue.

La Mirada is on that list. It's a very big park and popular with the standard park goers. The last few times I've watched tourneys down there, there have been issues with kids running off with peoples' discs and general problems with the public not having the foggiest idea that there was a tournament going on or that the park was reserved.

 

[nate22]

This.... is making a whole lot of sense.

like the APT

 

[nate22]

ATP even lol

 

[DavidSauls]

This has always been my issue with the NT circuit - and now the DGWT - in general. If you want to attract the top pros, most of whom make very little money, why not make a tour that is actually a tour, like a band does? How many bands hop back and forth across the country? It generally runs in a logical layout that reduces travel between gigs. This is something that should be addressed for the success of future tours.

It's a great idea....but....

It was tried before. I remember an NT schedule trying to sweep from the Memorial, up the west coast, across to the midwest in summer, and towards the USDGC in fall.

The problem is that the PDGA doesn't run the NT, or place the events. They're dependent on locals. Star Shark is right about course availability, but it's also that people want to run their events at traditional times, perhaps for tradition, or weather, or other reasons. Given the choice between an existing event moving to a different time of year to join the NT, or staying put and being an A-tier, the latter seemed to be the sentiment.

 

[onemilemore]

It's a great idea....but....

It was tried before. I remember an NT schedule trying to sweep from the Memorial, up the west coast, across to the midwest in summer, and towards the USDGC in fall.

The problem is that the PDGA doesn't run the NT, or place the events. They're dependent on locals. Star Shark is right about course availability, but it's also that people want to run their events at traditional times, perhaps for tradition, or weather, or other reasons. Given the choice between an existing event moving to a different time of year to join the NT, or staying put and being an A-tier, the latter seemed to be the sentiment.

I figured that this was the main impediment to a proper tour schedule, which is unfortunate. I feel like this is the kind of thing the DGWT is set up for, but it still seems like theyll be depending on local TDs, too.

 

[DavidSauls]

Back to the DGWT, there are probably more details to come, or details I've missed, but it looks a lot like an expansion of the USDGC, pre-performance-flight, formula. Innova busted their butt for years but couldn't sustain it; now 6 events like it, 3 in the U.S. Perhaps now the time is right, or they're tweaking it to get it right.

 

[scarpfish]

Granted this could be off by a couple numbers but quick research shows that we have 26 states with less then 75 courses and 12 states with less then 40 courses as of checking online today.
Draw what conclusions from that you may.

My conclusion is that you have no idea what I was talking about.

 

[tbird888]

My conclusion is that you have no idea what I was talking about.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:

 

[Darkgreen]

It's a great idea....but....

It was tried before. I remember an NT schedule trying to sweep from the Memorial, up the west coast, across to the midwest in summer, and towards the USDGC in fall.

The problem is that the PDGA doesn't run the NT, or place the events. They're dependent on locals. Star Shark is right about course availability, but it's also that people want to run their events at traditional times, perhaps for tradition, or weather, or other reasons. Given the choice between an existing event moving to a different time of year to join the NT, or staying put and being an A-tier, the latter seemed to be the sentiment.

Maybe it is time to drop some of these places as NT tournaments for this reason. They can have an A-tier on the weekend that is convienent for them.

Of course this assumes that there is someone and someplace that is ready to step up to an NT. Maybe there isn't, but it certainly seems like there are a lot of great TDs out there running some great A-tiers on some great courses.

 

[Jay Dub]

Maybe it is time to drop some of these places as NT tournaments for this reason. They can have an A-tier on the weekend that is convienent for them.

Of course this assumes that there is someone and someplace that is ready to step up to an NT. Maybe there isn't, but it certainly seems like there are a lot of great TDs out there running some great A-tiers on some great courses.

I know the Hambrick Open is an NT every other year. Not sure which tournament they trade off with but what that says, to me, is there are other tournaments able and willing to step up.

 

[schumijr]

I would venture American soccer has been helped more by Latin America than Europe, and from building a spectator base from people who have played at the youth level over the last 20 years than it has from increased TV coverage.


Why would Americans get interested in the European side of the sport when they aren't showing interest in the American side?

Which in all honesty doesn't seem any different on the surface except perhaps in culture.

If the European side of the sport grows in a way that adds more passion, more history, and more attention to the sport overall, then Americans may take more notice. For example, I have friends who watch the British Darts championships (or whatever it's called) on ESPN and then these friends go through a spell of wanting to play darts all the time. It's because the passion, and excitement, they see for the European side of the event brings a new level of interest to it.

If disc golf continues it's growth in Finland and Sweden, and let's say they have some serious rivalries, that creates history, that is being filmed with higher budget setups, and there's a passion that builds around it - it COULD bring a bit of a halo effect to Americans. Just like some Americans get into European Rally Car, or how F1 brings more attention to American open wheel racing. Or in reverse, how NASCAR and the NFL have been building fanbases in Europe.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I don't think some of understand the demographics of some of those European countries.

Finland ... THERE ISNT **** GOING ON THERE WITH TONS OF LAND AND NO ONE LIVING ON IT.

 

[DavidSauls]

Maybe it is time to drop some of these places as NT tournaments for this reason. They can have an A-tier on the weekend that is convienent for them.

Of course this assumes that there is someone and someplace that is ready to step up to an NT. Maybe there isn't, but it certainly seems like there are a lot of great TDs out there running some great A-tiers on some great courses.

I know the Hambrick Open is an NT every other year. Not sure which tournament they trade off with but what that says, to me, is there are other tournaments able and willing to step up.

The question would be, whether there are other tournaments willing to step up on designated dates to make make it a geographically-organized tour.

Like everyone else, I have my own idea on how the PDGA schedule should be done, if only I were Czar, and had a magic wand to fix a few real-world issues. Or, those two conditions being unlikely, how I wish it were done.

Which comes back to the DGWT. If they pull off making disc golf a spectator sport and bringing in significant outside money, it will certainly make a difference in scheduling. With enough money, you have much more latitude in getting events where, and when, you want them.

 

[RistoS]

PDGA membership- 96 in the Czech Republic, 219 in Estonia. This includes expired memberships. I wonder why those sites were chosen.

The area surrounding Konopiste castle is a "perfect" disc golf setting, according to Jussi Meresmaa. The Czech EuroTour event was held there last year, and it definitely looks pretty sweet as seen on the tourney videos.

 

[COLODISCR]

I think a lot of you guys have some really great points but nobody has touched on one key issue...

What makes young players want to play in the NFL, NHL, NBA or any other major sport? Money plain and simple. A NFL player, not even a top level one, gets to live like a king compared to the middle class here. Would anyone but the absolute most passionate lovers of the game do it professionally if you only made minimum wage for practice and game hours during the season? I think that's where he is trying to make the biggest change by attracting more sponsors by putting more effort into the production side.

Maybe someday it will boom and someday kids out there will actually want to be professional disc golfers when they grow up because they can actually make a good living doing it. I still think all of this is far from becoming a reality but I do think that's his dream with the DGWT.

Personally I really enjoy watching professional disc golf events. I watched most of the USDGC online. Seeing some of the shots those guys can pull off is absolutely amazing. I'd watch disc golf on tv over ball golf any day but thats just me... Hopefully some form of growth comes from this even if it's mostly in Europe.

 

[DavidSauls]

As a sidenote, I'm old enough to remember when pro athletes---other than the superstars---made relatively modest wages, and often held other jobs in the offseason. We kids still dreamed of being one.