Disc lands on tee pad of another card/hole?

[sidewinder22]

Can you remove the players disc of another card/hole off the tee pad that your card is playing teeing from, and then remark it by group decision after your card is done teeing off?

 

[1978]

No of course not.

Whats the difference between that and 2 peoples disc near each other on the same fairway or close proximity fairways. You can't mark someone elses disc, and you surely cant pick up someone elses disc without marking it, then just guess by your group decision where it was, lol.

How could this ever be an issue? Just wait for them to throw from their lie.

Well technically sure you could and then also write down your penalty on your score card.

 

[araytx]

You're talking tournament situation, right??? Because casually it's no big deal. In a tourney, I wouldn't want another card telling me where my lie was and then handing me my disc.

 

[sidewinder22]

IDK speed of play, 30 seconds? So then technically the teepad is not free and clear of distractions until the other card player plays whenever they finally arrive several minutes later.

 

[sidewinder22]

You're talking tournament situation, right??? Because casually it's no big deal. In a tourney, I wouldn't want another card telling me where my lie was and then handing me my disc.

Card, hence tourney.

 

[JC17393]

If you don't feel you can wait for the player to come through to play his disc and get it out of the way, you can always attempt to play around it. I think picking it up and moving it without the thrower's consent would be a bad idea and bordering on intentional interference, but trying to play around it and happening to kick it accidentally, you'd be allowed to replace it without penalty.

 

[sidewinder22]

So then technically the teepad is not free and clear of distractions until the other card player plays whenever they finally arrive several minutes later, and a 30 second violation can not be called the player up next on the pad?

Rephrased question.

 

[JC17393]

If the player who is next to throw decides he doesn't want to play around the disc nor move it, then yeah, the playing area is not free and clear of distractions and the 30-second clock can't really start.

There is an argument that could be made that the disc qualifies as a casual obstacle (examples in the rule include "players' equipment") and could be moved on that basis. But it does run right into the interference rule argument if you're moving another player's equipment without their knowledge or permission. It's a sticky spot where I'd err on the side of caution and wait...or play around the disc where it lays.

If there is a time crunch of some sort and the group wants to get moving, they can always communicate to the owner of the disc where it landed and talk him/his group into allowing him to play the lie as soon as possible (out of turn if necessary). Or alternatively, asking his permission to move the disc temporarily to allow the group to tee off without the disc being a factor.

 

[sidewinder22]

Whats the difference between that and 2 peoples disc near each other on the same fairway or close proximity fairways.

How could this ever be an issue? Just wait for them to throw from their lie.

What if the other player's disc is in your desired run-up, several feet from your disc in the fairway? Is that a legitimate distraction?

The difference being that in the fairways, you only have 30cm behind your lie, whereas on the tee pad you have a lot more room to work with. Also the other players can still play ahead out of order for speed of play mid fairway and typically not as long a wait as from tee pad to tee pad. When on the tee pad, you are absolutely stuck in a holding pattern until that disc is gone, and then creates a backup.

 

[1978]

I would say that is an appropriate call for the thrower. You can wait until the lie is clear of distractions...another card walking up to their disc is a distraction and you have the right to let them play through. Also, 30 seconds only starts once you have selected your lie and stance. People wait all the time for other cards to throw, or putt out before teeing. Or alternate between...someone throws, then you putt, then someone throws, another putts out. If someone's disc is around you, you can ask for them to mark it...they cant take their sweet time then call you for 30 seconds.

 

[sidewinder22]

There is an argument that could be made that the disc qualifies as a casual obstacle (examples in the rule include "players' equipment") and could be moved on that basis. But it does run right into the interference rule argument if you're moving another player's equipment without their knowledge or permission. It's a sticky spot where I'd err on the side of caution and wait...or play around the disc where it lays.

This was a question of mine, it's like chair-gate.

 

[araytx]

IDK speed of play, 30 seconds? So then technically the teepad is not free and clear of distractions until the other card player plays whenever they finally arrive several minutes later.

Card, hence tourney.

Yep. and Yup

 

[sidewinder22]

I would say that is an appropriate call for the thrower. You can wait until the lie is clear of distractions...another card walking up to their disc is a distraction and you have the right to let them play through. Also, 30 seconds only starts once you have selected your lie and stance. People wait all the time for other cards to throw, or putt out before teeing. Or alternate between...someone throws, then you putt, then someone throws, another putts out. If someone's disc is around you, you can ask for them to mark it...they cant take their sweet time then call you for 30 seconds.

What if the two players from different card get into a Mexican Standoff because both discs/or markers are a distraction to both players?

 

[Spiky]

Obviously, you have to cancel the tourney.

 

[curt]

I think this is easy, according to the rules. Casual relief says that you may obtain relief from other players equipments. If it is practical, you remove it, but the only way to remove a disc in play is to have the other player take his shot. If waiting for the other player is impractical, you can take relief up to 5 meters back on the line of play. I think taking relief would have to be an extreme case though.

 

[Steve West]

I think this trumps the other rules:

A player who intentionally interferes with another player's disc in any of the following ways shall receive two penalty throws: … Moving a thrown disc or mini marker disc (other than in the process of identification, retrieval, or marking)… .

So, I would say you must not move the disc. The position of a thrown disc is fundamental to the whole game. The rest of the rules are all just ways to implement that concept.

I would agree that a disc on the tee pad is a distraction.

What can you do?

A player is allowed to request that other people remove themselves and/or their belongings from the player's stance or line of play.

A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: … players' equipment, … . To obtain relief, the player must remove the obstacle if it is practical to do so. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the target, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie (unless greater casual relief is announced by the Director).

So, you could ask the thrower to move it. I don't think you could ask anyone else to move it, because the rule says "their belongings".

Because the interference rule prevents you from moving the disc, it is not practical to remove it yourself. It may or may not be practical to ask the thrower to move it. If the thrower is nowhere to be found, you could take relief back along the line of play.

It may be a stretch, but one could try to say that because…

Course equipment may always be restored to its proper working order, including the clearing of obstacles.

…you are allowed to "fix" the tee pad by removing the disc. I think this is only an exemption from a penalty for moving obstacles, not a free pass to violate other rules. However, because the rule could be worded better to be more clear in that regard, I wouldn't overrule a group that had decided the disc could be moved because of this rule.

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't see how it would be "intentional interference" if you put it back after.

 

[JC17393]

The act of moving the disc at all, regardless of the intent to replace it, is considered intentional interference by the letter of the rule. The only movement of the disc that wouldn't be considered interference would be any movement needed to identify the disc (say turning it over briefly to find a name).

804.03
D. A player who intentionally interferes with another player's disc in any of the following ways shall receive two penalty throws...
(2)Moving a thrown disc or mini marker disc (other than in the process of identification, retrieval, or marking)...​

 

[biscoe]

What if the two players from different card get into a Mexican Standoff because both discs/or markers are a distraction to both players?

Someone with some common sense on one card or the other tells them to quit being pissy little bitches and play continues?

 

[Shivjon]

Unless the tee pad is unusually narrow, I'd like to think that I could ignore it while teeing off to one side of the pad. I'm also patient enough to wait for the player to retrieve it and throw their next shot. In any case, touching a disc without the thrower's permission is not an option I would consider.