"Finger Push" and Disc Pivot

[HyzerUniBomber]

Any info on how far those went? Or, even better, video?

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7097

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

a second order polynomial.

 

[RFrance]

Funny. :thmbup: Bottom line, like you said, the discs with speed around 60 mph have less spin than those thrown around 50 mph.

 

[RFrance]

Another thing, from the new plot you can also see that a disc thrown with around 2030 - 2070 RPM will get you 45 MPH, 53 MPH, 60 MPH or 63 MPH. What you can't see though is the HST or the LSF.

 

[sidewinder22]

Without that spin I can't see how else they can throw putters 400-450 since putters are so sensitive to spin.

Speed and height. I seriously doubt Simon is worrying about spin when crushing putters 80mph.

 

[clard]

A proper disc pivot will give more spin than a loose pivot. I've heard a few people who found "snap" say their discs flew "lazy" afterwards.

I agree. When my technique improved I noticed a difference in disc flight for sure. When I stay on plane through my throw they turn really late, and fly "lazy." However, with the added power if I do change planes (which I do more often than I'd like) it will turn early and HARD.

I just know that when I'm doing field work and I'm throwing hyzer lines once I get to my flippy mids I have to really snap the **** out of them to make sure they hold the hyzer and don't flip up on me. It almost seems as if I'm throwing or "pushing" the disc out with a lot more force to achieve the desired flight. If I'm lazy they won't hold that hyzer angle.

Same with the super late turnover shots... If I want to REALLY delay a turn on a disc, I have to make sure I snap it a lot harder. This in effect keeps the disc on a stable line for a lot longer before the speed of the throw finally catches up to the disc and has it start turning over.

I think I know what you mean, but it's hard to say that it's the amount of spin that is changing. Not trying to argue the point, but I'd be willing to bet it has more to do with your planes, angle of release or something else than it does spin. But I can't measure spin either so who knows?! :doh:

Speed and height. I seriously doubt Simon is worrying about spin when crushing putters 80mph.

QFT. I tend to think that proper technique lends enough spin and that's that. I'm sure that Simon and Eagle McMahon are spinning the crap out of the disc, but that's just a byproduct of great technique.

 

[Dan Ensor]

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7097

It sounds like just Erin was throwing. I wonder if the drop is indicative of a form change to go from throwing 60mph to 50.

 

[TruthHurts]

A lot of the things taught on DGR were EXTREME examples to try. Not so much something you should use on the course. The point of a lot of BlakeT's drills was to isolate a movement and master it. Then incorporate that into your throw. I think in this example he is really just trying to change your mental visualization of the hit.

A big part of what I teach for any motion is to eliminate the idea of a "pull" and put the focus on pushing forward. That is essentially what he is saying here. All of the acceleration with the arm and wrist happens here and is a result of that forward push thinking.

There is an old post on DGR where JR and myself talk in lengthy paragraphs about the "trigger pull" grip. While I'm not a fan of the word pull, it applies here. It kinda alos touches on the article I wrote for HeavyDisc and Jussi's form. If you watch that video of Jussi you can see him tuck him index finger under the rim as he moves into the hit(it looks like he is pulling the trigger on a gun). This was his timing method for making the disc actively pivot. All his weight gets shifted into that "trigger pull" and the disc pivots around it. Its great for learning to FEEL the pivot but not I wouldn't advise making it a part of your throw. I should probably do an article on this next...

Blake taught effective exercises. These new age frauds are looking to pseudo intellectualize physics, and athletic movements while having no respectable education, or body of work in either. It's quite irritating, and it saddens me to see guys whose opinions I valued in the past hop on the bandwagon to share in the undeserved accolades.

 

[TruthHurts]

I agree. When my technique improved I noticed a difference in disc flight for sure. When I stay on plane through my throw they turn really late, and fly "lazy." However, with the added power if I do change planes (which I do more often than I'd like) it will turn early and HARD.



I think I know what you mean, but it's hard to say that it's the amount of spin that is changing. Not trying to argue the point, but I'd be willing to bet it has more to do with your planes, angle of release or something else than it does spin. But I can't measure spin either so who knows?! :doh:



QFT. I tend to think that proper technique lends enough spin and that's that. I'm sure that Simon and Eagle McMahon are spinning the crap out of the disc, but that's just a byproduct of great technique.

Watch Dylan Horst, or Glenn Patteson throw. You're not progressed enough to understand the subject. There are people in your area who actually ARE good, and grasp throwing.

The guy you're correcting seems to have a better understanding than yourself

 

[DiscFifty]

I've seen Simon throw in person a few times now, and he definitely has that wrist/cocked/snap happening at the right time to get that explosive disc ejection. Combine that with his incredibly fast arm acceleration and you get some serious bombs. I'm an older guy but I never would have thought I could throw 350 with hardly any fatigue or stress and I owe it all to the proper point in the form where the wrist is cocked/loaded correctly so it ejects the disc out. There is no doubt as I continue to get in better physical shape, strength training, flexibility, etc, I'll be throwing 400+ on a regular basis.

 

[clard]

Watch Dylan Horst, or Glenn Patteson throw. You're not progressed enough to understand the subject. There are people in your area who actually ARE good, and grasp throwing.

The guy you're correcting seems to have a better understanding than yourself

What are you talking about? I've played with Dylan a few times and he's a great player. Much better than me. Not sure how that's relevant to this conversation.

 

[clard]

Blake taught effective exercises. These new age frauds are looking to pseudo intellectualize physics, and athletic movements while having no respectable education, or body of work in either. It's quite irritating, and it saddens me to see guys whose opinions I valued in the past hop on the bandwagon to share in the undeserved accolades.

You are a turd.

 

[slowplastic]

Blake taught effective exercises. These new age frauds are looking to pseudo intellectualize physics, and athletic movements while having no respectable education, or body of work in either. It's quite irritating, and it saddens me to see guys whose opinions I valued in the past hop on the bandwagon to share in the undeserved accolades.

Umm...a bunch of people are trying to help a bunch of other people, and being pretty transparent with what they do and don't know...and if things they say are an "iron" help or just trying to figure more out with the rest of everyone.

I couldn't care less if someone has a degree in some sort of math/kinesiology/whatever if they know how to throw a disc and put things into words that help me throw a disc better.

 

[sidewinder22]

Watch Dylan Horst, or Glenn Patteson throw. You're not progressed enough to understand the subject. There are people in your area who actually ARE good, and grasp throwing.

The guy you're correcting seems to have a better understanding than yourself

LOL...I'm betting clard beats them next time. opcorn:

 

[clard]

Blake taught effective exercises. These new age frauds are looking to pseudo intellectualize physics, and athletic movements while having no respectable education, or body of work in either. It's quite irritating, and it saddens me to see guys whose opinions I valued in the past hop on the bandwagon to share in the undeserved accolades.

The reason this upsets me so much is that all of the guys posting in technique and form analysis are trying to help people improve! What are you arguing against? Who is a fraud?

I really want to meet you in real life.

 

[spinachd]

I've seen Simon throw in person a few times now, and he definitely has that wrist/cocked/snap happening at the right time to get that explosive disc ejection. Combine that with his incredibly fast arm acceleration and you get some serious bombs. I'm an older guy but I never would have thought I could throw 350 with hardly any fatigue or stress and I owe it all to the proper point in the form where the wrist is cocked/loaded correctly so it ejects the disc out. There is no doubt as I continue to get in better physical shape, strength training, flexibility, etc, I'll be throwing 400+ on a regular basis.

Well this is an interesting post. I'm old and not intrinsically athletic. My max D on flat ground is about 390. Usually it's more like 340-360. Those are consistent and under control and I've been happy with it. I wonder if I should revisit form improvement or if doing so will mess with my accuracy.

 

[DiscFifty]

Well this is an interesting post. I'm old and not intrinsically athletic. My max D on flat ground is about 390. Usually it's more like 340-360. Those are consistent and under control and I've been happy with it. I wonder if I should revisit form improvement or if doing so will mess with my accuracy.

I've had countless talks with pro grandmasters. (I'm advgm). Most of them throw 350-375 max d in tournaments so you're right there as far as typical distance. Getting another 30-50ft is probably going to be little things like slowing down, grip strength, better acceleration, etc, etc. You could probably work on that without messing with your overall accuracy, etc. For me personally, getting to 400ft is going to be the result of continued natural improvement to my overall game, fitness, etc. I'm not going to measure my distance and worry about that extra 50ft on a daily basis, I just feel it's going to be there within the next few months on a more consistent basis. I've had some throws over 400ft in recent competitive rounds and it's like..whoah...that was cool. But everything has to be firing ideally for it to happen. lol..

 

[zj1002]

Blake taught effective exercises. These new age frauds are looking to pseudo intellectualize physics, and athletic movements while having no respectable education, or body of work in either. It's quite irritating, and it saddens me to see guys whose opinions I valued in the past hop on the bandwagon to share in the undeserved accolades.

Maybe put the whiskey down and read what I wrote again. I was trying to help someone understand that what Blake taught isn't intended to be your form but a tool to isolate feelings. Blake lacked the ability to easily relate his thoughts to the masses, and he quite often "borrowed" ideas from many other contributors on DGR who understood the physics of it.

DGR was genius, but not because of one man. I enjoy reading some new ideas here. I don't agree with them all, but it's good for the game. If you read any of my posts now, I only talk about forward movements and balance because that is what you want out of your form in the long term.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

lol ZJ with the real talk, as always.

 

[clard]

lol ZJ with the real talk, as always.

QFT.