[Question] Firebirds Illegal!

[wake911]

The rule that has been quoted here a couple of times says that discs cannot be tested ABOVE 77 degrees- i.e. you can't perform the test at a temp so hot that your disc is half melting. A lot of you seem to have read that wrong and gotten the opposite impression. Also, I didn't see any mention of a TD being able to test a disc during a tourney, the quoted rule indicates this type of testing should be performed on a disc mold to ensure the legality of that mold, not on individual discs. All of you saying how this rule would be unenforceable seem to have missed that point as well. Sorry for sounding douchey, but I think if people understand the rule a bit better they may revise their opinions.

The issue comes to the fact that another rule has put in place this year that if someone challenges the legality of your disc, it has to be approved by the TD. Thus if they say "Your firebird is too stiff" then you risk using it the rest of the round, getting disqualified if the TD declares it illegal. or not using it, and potentially shooting worse without one of your discs, to avoid any potential DQ.

All we really want is for the PDGA to clarify what it means when they disallow a company to sell a specific disc(as approved), and what the legality of using a previously approved disc is that potentially could be against the stiffness rules.

 

[smyith]

I have alot of respect for most of you guys, some on here are very knowledgeable but if you are trying to get discs illegal in spite of the g9i wizards being deemed illegal, you sir are a douche. No one likes a rat/snitch/nark, its one of the first things your parents probably taught you.... Stop tattle-telling all the time. And then to go after fbs, a really popular disc, what a tragedy.

:clap: :hfive:

its the age ole human problem. "If I can't have it neither can you!" or "I want what you have cause mine is good enough now that I've seen yours"

sigh.....when will we grow up.

 

[DannyThunders]

Why are stiff discs illegal anyway??

 

[pablo.diablo]

cuz when it hit you upside the head it hurts

 

[DannyThunders]

cuz when it hit you upside the head it hurts

Pretty sure any tournament player can take your head off with a gummy disc...

 

[smyith]

I disagree with the whole " enforce across the board" thing. Its cool if the pdga wants to take away gateway stuff, but don't go messing with innova, especially stuff I throw.

d-bag statement. BIG time! grow up, you are what is wrong with society.....me me me me me me me me me me me me....yet never an us.....sad

 

[notroman]

In my case it's not spite - I really could care less and I'll keep throwing the G9i myself. The problem I have is that there is a rule that is not enforced evenly across the board. It's been around ages, but was largely ignored. Now some discs got called on it (Gateway isn't the only one - there was that other "green" manufacturer out in Europe trying to release new discs). I just don't understand the hit or miss enforcement of the rules. I would encourage more people to bring up discs that are potentially too stiff to PDGA's attention. Not because I want all these discs pulled off the shelves, but because I want PDGA to take a firm stance on this particular rule. They should either find a better way to enforce it, or modify it to work with the current market, or get rid of it altogether. It's hard for me to take an organization seriously and follow their other rules if I know they can't do it themselves.

I just can't believe there's even a debate on whether it's okay to bring up something that's against PDGA guidelines to PDGA while they continue to turn their heads the other way and occasionally pull the trigger on some discs.

I hope I'm making sense.

 

[Innovadude]

New run FB's become illegal= Never sign up for or play in PDGA event again, not like I do often anyways lately

 

[Emoney]

New run FB's become illegal= Never sign up for or play in PDGA event again, not like I do often anyways lately

rec division wont miss ya

 

[smyith]

I just don't understand the hit or miss enforcement of the rules.

agreed

I would encourage more people to bring up discs that are potentially too stiff to PDGA's attention. Not because I want all these discs pulled off the shelves, but because I want PDGA to take a firm stance on this particular rule.

disagree. think of the nightmare at tournaments and especially for TDs, they would have to require them to have the testing equipment on site and then hope that the temperature is appropriate for proper testing.

They should either find a better way to enforce it, or modify it to work with the current market, or get rid of it altogether.

I still don't understand the reason for the rule. I been hit in the head with poo-like discs and rock hard ones....they all hurt equally. I would agree with removing or modifying.

It's hard for me to take an organization seriously and follow their other rules if I know they can't do it themselves.

You took the PDGA seriously at some point???? I would say that PDGA rules are broken on a more regular basis more so than any other "professional" sport. Plus when its 99% volunteer for the people who actually make a difference in the sport its ludicrous to ask them to have all the testing equipment on hand.
The only acceptable thing to me would be to grandfather every disc that has currently been produced. Have all companies resubmit their discs in all plastics and mold variants. Then have the PDGA occassional pick some stock discs off the shelves and test them. If they fail notify the disc company and give them a short window to resubmit the disc for approval as well as reimburse the PDGA for the tested discs.

I just can't believe there's even a debate on whether it's okay to bring up something that's against PDGA guidelines to PDGA while they continue to turn their heads the other way and occasionally pull the trigger on some discs.

I agree with you....but the problem isn't the PDGA its the individual. Especially the spiteful one.

 

[pablo.diablo]

Originally Posted by 77586 View Post
I disagree with the whole " enforce across the board" thing. Its cool if the pdga wants to take away gateway stuff, but don't go messing with innova, especially stuff I throw.

d-bag statement. BIG time! grow up, you are what is wrong with society.....me me me me me me me me me me me me....yet never an us.....sad

SARCASM is obviously not your 2nd language my friend. The guy's post is only dripping with it.

 

[notroman]

disagree. think of the nightmare at tournaments and especially for TDs, they would have to require them to have the testing equipment on site and then hope that the temperature is appropriate for proper testing.

Which is exactly why this issue needs to be brought to light. They need to either find a way to make manufacturers be held liable for their products to ensure that they conform to the standards so the TDs and players don't have to worry about their equipment REALLY being legal despite the "PDGA approved" stamps, or they need to adjust the standards to accommodate the current market.

What if the MLB suddenly stopped checking bats and some manufacturers slowly started introducing hollowed out bats or bats made with other materials, etc, because nobody was looking? Then somebody makes a full aluminum bat and they get called out on it for going too far, but when other rule infractions get brought up everyone tries to look the other way.

I'm not saying stiffer discs give people a competitive advantage, so this may not be the best example that I just gave, but the rules are there and if they're being blatantly ignored then something should be done about it.

 

[notroman]

And yes, I have and would like to continue taking PDGA seriously. I have nothing against them, which is why I want this issue resolved. However, unless people speak up about it and bring it up in numbers I don't see anything being done about this.

 

[LeewayeDiscGolf]

I don't know about you guys, but I'm not going to call anybody out on the flexibilty or lack of flexibilty their disc has. Disc golf is supposed to be relaxing and fun. Worrying about wether or not a disc is legal for tourney play kills the relaxing fun factor. And I've never seen a tournament cheater, intentional or accidental, who actually had an advantage over the other players by cheating. Usually they aren't playing well to begin with.

 

[FL1GHTL355]

This is hilarious. I don't know about you guys but I ALWAYS wear jeans and sweatshirt even though I keep my garage at 77F in the winter...

 

[kerplunk]

The issue comes to the fact that another rule has put in place this year that if someone challenges the legality of your disc, it has to be approved by the TD. Thus if they say "Your firebird is too stiff" then you risk using it the rest of the round, getting disqualified if the TD declares it illegal. or not using it, and potentially shooting worse without one of your discs, to avoid any potential DQ.

All we really want is for the PDGA to clarify what it means when they disallow a company to sell a specific disc(as approved), and what the legality of using a previously approved disc is that potentially could be against the stiffness rules.

Ahh, now I see. IMO, stiffness should not be something that can be challenged by another player or even the TD, it is something that should be tested by the PDGA. Therefore, a mold could be declared illegal by the PDGA due to stiffness, but a PDGA-approved mold could not be declared illegal by a player or TD due to stiffness.

 

[JedV]

Hitler took the Firebirds, Stalin took the Firebirds, Mao took the Firebirds…

1776 will commence again if you try to take our Firebirds…the republic will rise again if you attempt to take our Firebirds!

Way to reference current events!

 

[skurf]

I'd imagine a lot of wider rimmed champion-type plastic discs would fail this test.

 

[JReynolds]

I have 2 firebirds and at least 1 glow destroyer that I know would fail, but so would most or all or my g9 and med wizards

 

[dpo2002]

i like my firebird because 1 it has a EPIC logo 2 good windy disc 3 EPIC logo