First form check!

[sidewinder22]

Your rear hip is landing behind your knee. Simon lands leveraged forward.

This is the point both of your right foots start striding/Hershyzer.

 

[Brychanus]

Much better. Keep leading with the CoG/butt more and longer stride/catch.

A few days in, here's what Hershyzer looks like:

Your rear hip is landing behind your knee. Simon lands leveraged forward.

This is the point both of your right foots start striding/Hershyzer.

I'm backwards again? Shocking!

So before I misunderstood Simon's transition as getting leverage off the leading leg in the "prep" step much longer than he does. Instead, in that stillframe you attached he's already deweighted/flowing over the leading leg setting up the Hershyzer position. This is also one of the points of the pump/Hammer X drill - the pump helps rock you and swing the rear leg under you, which also gets the rear hip set up leveraged forward of his knee more like Simon.

Feel free to ignore, but I wanted to see if I could make my drill transition better after Hershyzering this AM. I worked on making my pump swing me more like Hammer X in transition. Maybe a bit better? I can tell I'll probably need to work on some freewheeling Hammer X/pump momentum after my Hershyzer is solid. One thing at a time bucko.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hershyzer - you are just sitting without turning back or "presetting the booty" before the stride.

 

[Brychanus]

Hershyzer - you are just sitting without turning back or "presetting the booty" before the stride.

Thanks

????

 

[Brychanus]

Ninja edit: srill attempting to preset the booty and this time stay fully closed to target all the way into the plant.

?

 

[Brychanus]

Quick report & on course findings.

I've still just been doing daily Hershyzer 2 in little batches at a time with a bit of DD. I've been doing a lot of Hershyzer 2 since it is becoming easier and more consistent and confident each day with bigger and bigger strides, so I'll post a throw soon when the legs are fresh.

I am still only throwing in rounds, so usually ~3 days between throwing. I only focus on one swing thought (landing leveraged forward so I can hershyzer stride out of it). I've been exaggerating it a bit so my body can tell the difference.

I have been mostly throwing slow discs (e.g., Aviar or understable equivalents) on short tees (200-275) with the only swing thought being to land leveraged forward of the x-step like Simon and keep flowing with Hershyzer leverage in transition. It seemed like my body naturally wants to scale down how far it "strode past the doorframe" like Simon when he throws shorter distances while x-stepping.. My "first world problem" is that it's ridiculously easy to blow past the 200' holes when I don't intend to with the Aviars with even less effort than before. I can reach anything with a Pig or slower on command at lower effort and moving more slowly than before. So more potential swing power is clearly getting in there.

I was finding that when I needed more power all I had to do was be more patient/stride longer off the rear side. I kept trying to find the Hershyzer-like leverage to power the move. I had to slow down a few times and remind myself to scale power from the stride and not through my upper body, so I can tell the difference to an extent now. That was impossible before since I was never really balanced moving over the rear leg.

I threw a bit too much on Sunday. Another case where it felt too easy so I thought I could keep going, and I was taking multiple shots on a few tees feeling out the stride. I think my legs lost it around the last 6 holes of the second round b/c my shots started coming out wild more effortfully, and I ended up with some plant knee strain, so I think I just exhausted that leg with all the repetitive force coming in from the shift.

My legs were definitely getting recruited differently because they were exhausted for a couple days, especially more in my buttcheeks and hammies.

I can probably be a little smarter about drill spacing too as I add momentum. I haven't figured out the frequency/intensity I should do them yet, pointers there welcome.

 

[Brychanus]

Good day! Thank you guys for the recent input as always. Longish report w/ exciting findings & new form check.

Round performance
Plant knee's mostly better but I stuck w/ shorties throwing only my Yeti Aviars just in case*. I did a solo round so I could take my time to focus. Same swing thought: forward leverage + Hershyzer. Tied PB on shorties (previous was standstills, this time I was forcing myself to work through my x-step). I would have made a few more if I hit all my 25' putts (Player 2). On days I don't throw I'm putting more and it's starting to pay off.

Since I throw here frequently, I pulled recent PDGA tournament data from MPO and MA1 & 2 rounds for this layout and my average recent rounds would be ~940, and today's would be ~980. I'm content to keep working on form first and foremost, and my goal is to get my short tee performance closer to averaging -9 over time, which doesn't seem crazy for such a short layout.

Form Check!
My plant knee felt no worse after throwing today. I won't throw for a few days, then I want to start working with more momentum again.

I am getting more fluid and feel lighter on my feet overall but could tell my move off the rear side is still a little unsteady as I scaled up for 250'+, so I threw a bit more to see what's up when I got home. This time I stopped before my legs got tired.

To my eye these are definitely improving w/ lots of Hershyzer 2 - the leverage is getting more forward, the plant stride is swinging in faster more reflexively, and I have a quicker shift and more mAss in the swing. It feels more like I'm doing a smooth fast dance like a Foxtrot overall but ending w/ a much heavier and faster crush than before. Today, this is the first time moving laterally feels more like a natural move more like walking or dancing. I don't feel any jerk stress anywhere in my chain. Knee's fine with longer strides/more impact when I'm smart about the shot count.

But I can tell there's still a little "dip" tendency in the backswing, and my plant stride is doing a little more reaching than we want to see, leaving me landing slightly behind the brace.

I think I can (1) still get a little more forward leveraged in transition and maybe that's because (2) my rear side is not fully gelled like Double Dragon into the backswing (which SW22 caught way back in post 678).

What do you think, keep working Hershyzer 2 and ramp up the Double Dragon w/ lots of momentum now?

Here's 1 shot at ~60% followed by 2 at ~80%.




Notes
- I know I shouldn't be at this point, but I'm honestly really impressed at how deeply the swing is changing just w/ a bit of daily drilling and throwing in rounds with a single swing thought every few days.

- Been playing around with little steps/booty moving in different directions and lurking other critiques, which has helped me leverage off the rear side in general. Exaggerating little dance-like booty shakes and twerk moves and connecting them with the Hershyzer feel is helping.

*- I switched to the Yetis to throw and putt a couple weeks ago and it makes a difference. The ergonomics are awesome for me and I feel much more like I'm gripping and throwing a tool rather than a catch frisbee.


Very happy today, thank you so much :hfive:

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks better on the rear foot, but your plant foot is moving too westward away from you and landing too eastward behind it.

You take a really big 1st step with left foot to the west and then it looks like your right foot doesn't step westward/closed enough. I would forgo the 1st step(4 step) with left and just start with right foot(3 step).

 

[Brychanus]

Looks better on the rear foot, but your plant foot is moving too westward away from you and landing too eastward behind it.

You take a really big 1st step with left foot to the west and then it looks like your right foot doesn't step westward/closed enough. I would forgo the 1st step(4 step) with left and just start with right foot(3 step).

Yesss - nice, thanks.

Good call, this is pretty neat. Walking it out, if I either step more west with step 2 in a 4 step or just remove it entirely to 3 step, it seems like I can get better drive leverage right away and also change directions faster out of the backswing. It's easier to load the backswing from the pump with less torque leaking. My plant stride also seems to stay in tighter + my weight seems to drop into the plant heel faster more like the door frame drill.

Will work on that for a bit in 3 steps and see how it's going!

 

[Brychanus]

Some progress w/ 3 steps yesterday. Moved back up to 70-80% effort and focused on efficiency. Threw a while, felt low-effort. My legs are tired today - the drive leg in particular is definitely doing something new in transition and that hammy is gassed. My plant knee is not getting hurt but is sensitive to repetitive impacts so I'll keep spacing these sessions out. I'm doing a lot of weighted single-leg exercises to shore up their resilience.

I messed with a few variables for like 20 minutes (backswing, double dragon feel, foot angles). I was kind of happy to find that the most important things seemed to be (1) how I take the first stride and (2) whether the X-step lands in a way that gives me immediate & firm lateral drive leverage. Those had a big impact on whether I could stay closed to the target and where the plant stride went so I just focused on them for another half hour. I found that I still need to exaggerate the drive stride a bit so it doesn't get lazy. Focusing on the Hershyzer and Door Frame feels helped the most.

Some of these are looking better to me, but I'm least confident about the first step. There's a little variability in how players achieve this move - I just got loose and jittered my first stride around a bit focusing on landing my x-step to feel like starting the Hershyzer.

Visualizing: Lizotte, Jenkins.

Here are a handful from the end of the session:

 

[sidewinder22]

Note how your front hip is excessively rising up during the throw instead of "staying down and rotating or clearing out".

You are planting too closed to clear your hip so it leaks forward and up. Your right femur goes vertical over top your knee/shin.

 

[Brychanus]

Note how your front hip is excessively rising up during the throw instead of "staying down and rotating or clearing out".

You are planting too closed to clear your hip so it leaks forward and up. Your right femur goes vertical over top your knee/shin.

Rewatched and did his sequence of drills. Thanks for saving me from some more pain.

Yeah, that explains some of the knee stress. The minor plant hip muscles are a little sore as is that hip socket.

I think that my plant hip is doing work to internally rotate the femur in transition that it shouldn't be. When I dangle the leg relaxed makes it seem like it's 5-10 degrees too closed as I land in the plant.

It seems less likely that this happens when I drill Hershyzer 2. In the drill I can swing through with low stress with a better hip clear while staying compressed. I'm going to keep doing that.

I'm still getting plenty of value out of H2 overall. So when I throw next time I'm going to warm up throwing directly out of Hershyzer 2 and see if I can get the plant leg to swing into the crush more naturally.

Despite the growing pains this part is pretty cool to me!

 

[Brychanus]

Note how your front hip is excessively rising up during the throw instead of "staying down and rotating or clearing out".

You are planting too closed to clear your hip so it leaks forward and up. Your right femur goes vertical over top your knee/shin.

This is gonna take at least a couple weeks. The knee risk is serious and bad swings feel really ****ty to it.

I had to fight the bad plant habit hard but might have made some progress today in terms of the plant foot angle/hip clear.

I needed to slow down to like 60-70% to be patient moving thru the drive leg all the way to he drop (still need lots of reps there) and let the plant stride relax and swing in better. Cleaning up a bit in standstills and then throwing out of Hershyzer 2 to warm up helps, as does adding a bit more hyzer angle in the X-step.

Hershyzer 2 throw:



Here's one of the better looking x-steps. I can't tell if I'm still striding too West - this is more or less where my plant stride wants to go if I sustain drive leverage and let the plant leg swing in more relaxed to catch me.


Keep working on this for a bit?

 

[sidewinder22]

This looks very uncomfortable/unnatural/twisted/pretzeled.

Need to preset the booty to the target which should alleviate any twisting. Your booty is facing square to the east which makes it incredibly hard to cross your legs, and then you are trying turn back too late during the stride. It will probably feel "too easy" and maybe not correct, in the setup when you get it right.

 

[Brychanus]

Here we go. I went back to the drill without throwing the disc then added the disc to the drill again focusing on booty preset.

Definitely feel less twisting backswing to swing, but please lmk what you think.

When I leave the disc behind me for a throw I can still feel my front leg wanting to work to stay internally rotated a little too much (i.e. more than just due to the pelvis turning back as I leave the disc behind, and it only seems to happen when I actually throw something) so I can keep loosening it up as I drill.

1x drill, 3x drill-throws:

 

[Brychanus]

Played today on long course. My buddies were hungover so I had some more solo time.

I added the pendulum pump back into my X-step by the end of the round (I still always use that pump for any standstill drives). In X-step it also clearly coordinates everything much better. I couldn't find my momentous power stroke at all until I switched back to it. So I'm going to keep working with it.

Here are some from right after the round working on integrating Hershyzer 2. Much higher speed/effort ratio than the other pump. I do find it a little trickier to get the H2 leverage in transition with this pump but I think that will come with practice and I need to learn to capture the momentum anyway.

I'm definitely not torquing the front leg like I was before. Hopefully I might avoid the hospital!

I can keep working on the H2 leverage and plant stride with this style. A few of these also look better to me than any previous form so far, but whatcha think?



Thanks a billion as always - Happy New Year!

 

[navel]

I haven't really been a part of your progress here in this thread so far. So I'm not sure where you are at right now, but just looking at the video above I have a few thoughts and suggestions. Angles, camera placement and lines are not 100% correct, but the details is not what I'm going for here.

1. Your pendulum looks forced and static. Like you are pumping it with your hand and just swinging the body with it for balance. In theory you should be able to swing a really heavy load the same way and with the same rhythm. Less sway with the the feet and legs and more pump and pressure shift. Make the pump heavy outwards rather than a big motion.

2. You are leaning back away from target. Try to go from lead shoulder balanced over lead foot (first step) to back shoulder balanced over lead foot (x-step) just before 'kicking the ball' towards target (last step / swinging lead foot forward). I've added a picture below. I think you will get in a much more balanced position for hershyzer. Also more leverage and a natural rhythm.

3. Fixing #1 and #2 will set you up better for #3. You want to set yourself up for the swing plane into and out from the power pocket.
Back knee will tilt automatically at the brace and make an imaginary line for where your lead shoulder will swing forward to. Back knee will then drop down and turn with the rotation (also on auto, not forced), which will stop the lead forward and make the arm and disc whip out instead of being dragged/pulled with a floaty lead shoulder.
You are missing this automatic part and your back leg drags behind, toe into the ground. This is also because of the weight shift being off, which is also because of the balance and forced positions with you leaning away from target.

 

[Brychanus]

I haven't really been a part of your progress here in this thread so far. So I'm not sure where you are at right now, but just looking at the video above I have a few thoughts and suggestions. Angles, camera placement and lines are not 100% correct, but the details is not what I'm going for here.

1. Your pendulum looks forced and static. Like you are pumping it with your hand and just swinging the body with it for balance. In theory you should be able to swing a really heavy load the same way and with the same rhythm. Less sway with the the feet and legs and more pump and pressure shift. Make the pump heavy outwards rather than a big motion.

2. You are leaning back away from target. Try to go from lead shoulder balanced over lead foot (first step) to back shoulder balanced over lead foot (x-step) just before 'kicking the ball' towards target (last step / swinging lead foot forward). I've added a picture below. I think you will get in a much more balanced position for hershyzer. Also more leverage and a natural rhythm.

3. Fixing #1 and #2 will set you up better for #3. You want to set yourself up for the swing plane into and out from the power pocket.
Back knee will tilt automatically at the brace and make an imaginary line for where your lead shoulder will swing forward to. Back knee will then drop down and turn with the rotation (also on auto, not forced), which will stop the lead forward and make the arm and disc whip out instead of being dragged/pulled with a floaty lead shoulder.
You are missing this automatic part and your back leg drags behind, toe into the ground. This is also because of the weight shift being off, which is also because of the balance and forced positions with you leaning away from target.

Thanks man, I always appreciate when you weigh in. These are familiar & frustrating issues and how you sliced it up is helpful.

Can you say more about this part in (1) so I can tackle it?

"Less sway with the the feet and legs and more pump and pressure shift. Make the pump heavy outwards rather than a big motion."

Does this mean swing (weight or arm) heavy forward and back, and rather than focus on the size of the pump, focus on whether the arm swing anchors my feet back and forth firm and abrupt like a standstill?

I think this is what SW22 was trying to teach me with the perpetual drill in a narrow stance a while back. I never quite got that to click, so it's probably no coincidence that it is showing up when I start my walkup from a narrower stance.

 

[Brychanus]

1. Your pendulum looks forced and static. Like you are pumping it with your hand and just swinging the body with it for balance. In theory you should be able to swing a really heavy load the same way and with the same rhythm. Less sway with the the feet and legs and more pump and pressure shift. Make the pump heavy outwards rather than a big motion.

Ignore previous question, easier shown than said. I am starting by focusing on my pump & first step. Does this look any better?

 

[sidewinder22]

If you were heaving something heavy here you would get pulled back by it like a rag doll. Your whole upper body/head is overturning and drifting back behind your lower body instead of staying leveraged against the swing. The backswing momentum is what should pull/cause your body to turn back.