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Drew in same position moving in slow mo.
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- Thread starter Brychanus
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Brychanus
* Ace Member *
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/48ed7d15-66bc-40f9-ae35-f8c21a3c8b0f
Here are 2 minutes of drills
. As you expected this is still a fundamental problem & I could detect the horse stance in each one. So I started with Pratt and then aimed to apply it to each thing here:1. (0:00) Pratt pendulum drill.
2. (0:34) Ride the bull. You can actually see my balance change from horse-stanced to head-pendulumy while I'm doing it.
3. (1:15) New hershyzer 2 (the extreme posture before was due to "forcing" my pressure to the instep while horse-stanced. That's why I would otherwise tend to start shifting immediately after I "preset the booty").
4. (1:26) Elevated rear foot Crush. Good call.
5. (1:40) 2x little strides, swinging over plant crush without then with the plant pivot. I could feel the difference immediately.
I did apply the concept to swivel stairs too and will rig up something to get a video.
Problems? Work on drilling this stack or focus on something else? This feels like at least a 3-weeker.
When I play I'm going to start doing some of these in warmups + work on throwing more narrow stance standstills.
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Brychanus
* Ace Member *
Updating last post w/ Swivel Stairs & Narrow standstill at the end.
Here are 2 minutes of drills
. As you expected this is still a fundamental problem & I could detect the horse stance in each one. So I started with Pratt and then aimed to apply it to each thing here:1. (0:00) Pratt pendulum drill.
2. (0:34) Ride the bull. You can actually see my balance change from horse-stanced to head-pendulumy while I'm doing it.
3. (1:15) New hershyzer 2 (the extreme posture before was due to "forcing" my pressure to the instep while horse-stanced. That's why I would otherwise tend to start shifting immediately after I "preset the booty").
4. (1:26) Elevated rear foot Crush. Good call.
5. (1:40) 2x little strides, swinging over plant crush without then with the plant pivot. I could feel the difference immediately.
Then tonight I did:
6. Swivel stairs right after Pratt drill. I'm going slow feeling where my head is balanced over my feet.
7. Narrow standstill right after Pratt drill. My feet definitely feel different & no knee discomfort but I'm in a "question everything" mood right now.
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Ah, the drills clearly show the fundamental issue. The stick is supposed to be inline with the spine instead of perpendicular, however the way you did it better shows how you are turning back and forth and shifting from in front vs shifting from behind. Your pelvis is open both ways while mine is closed. I'm shifting my lower spine much more while head stays more centered. Your head sways more because you are turning open.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HZsbOexm3I#t=6m35s
Can see in Swivel Stairs how you are stepping open and everything is in the way of each other. Note how my booty is preset targetward and have free access to step behind unimpeded.
The narrow stance has the same issue, you are setup at your hit open instead of closed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HZsbOexm3I#t=6m35s
Can see in Swivel Stairs how you are stepping open and everything is in the way of each other. Note how my booty is preset targetward and have free access to step behind unimpeded.
The narrow stance has the same issue, you are setup at your hit open instead of closed.
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Brychanus
* Ace Member *
Ah, the drills clearly show the fundamental issue. The stick is supposed to be inline with the spine instead of perpendicular, however the way you did it better shows how you are turning back and forth and shifting from in front vs shifting from behind. Your pelvis is open both ways while mine is closed. I'm shifting my lower spine much more while head stays more centered. Your head sways more because you are turning open.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HZsbOexm3I#t=6m35s
Can see in Swivel Stairs how you are stepping open and everything is in the way of each other. Note how my booty is preset targetward and have free access to step behind unimpeded.
The narrow stance has the same issue, you are setup at your hit open instead of closed.
WAAAAAAA!!! Well **** me. TY TY TY TY TY.
This morning I warmed up with Pratt. I think I can get balanced to each side easily b/c of Waltz, but waltz uses lots of open, not closed moves, and you're not often doing that lateral shift/ride the bull part so abruptly.
Drills
I had to watch you a couple times then I did Swivel Stairs and Ride the Bull for a while.
Ride the bull, two hands on pole then trying to shift and swing. When I moved to swing I could tell this was battling with my bad habits even without the disc. I can keep at it if it looks better.
Swivel stairs - Presetting the booty was a huge difference, and it was clearly brand new to my body. I could feel my head rebalancing. Will take time.
Throws
Feel free to ignore but I then worked on small shifts.
2x narrow. I would preset the booty, then swing around and try to find the new Ride the bull shift, then throw. My body was really fighting it but I just relaxed and took my time. It's probably going to be a couple weeks before the shift fully changes.
X-step. Presetting the booty/get stance closed in setup was half the battle. Then I did a little walk through specifically trying to find the new ride the bull:
When I threw seemed like I was getting a better x-step and it felt more Swivel stairs-like. I picked these two throws on purpose because they seemed like I was getting the booty preset. It finally was feeling like I was swiveling closed in x-step backswing and then driving out of my rear buttcheek more like Hershyzer more naturally. Once I made the setup change my front knee kept getting a little confused about its initial position and first move. I just nudged it around a little until it felt more like new Swivel Stairs.
BTW, I see the slightly weird disc behavior entering the pocket. Maybe part is overall how I'm landing on front leg, maybe my arm itself isn't leveraged quite right entering pocket. Can triage + work on my shift in OLD.
Takeaways:
-Always preset the ****in' booty.
-Ride that bull day & night.
-Move leveraged and quick and balanced like karate, but discard horse stance baggage and learn the new moves.
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
(PS in any case I'm noting that I'm rising going into the hit in the x-step so I'm certainly not landing on the plant leg correctly there. Similar shift issue is still lurking in the narrow standstills which is no surprise the first day trying it).
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
Let's look at these instead.
I was trying to figure out why my Ride the bull still looked too sway-ish and not as heavy as yours. In particular, I was still landing very differently than you do here. I think it's how I stack or "sit" into each leg moving back and forth. I could tell I never really got seated into my buttcheeks which it looks like you clearly do, and which I distinctly feel when I plant in OLD. So I tried to implement what I thought that is in RTB is here and worked to beat the power stance:
and new Swivel Stairs after little changes:
Throws if relevant:
Narrow standstill after trying to land more stacked into front leg.
Slow x-step swivel drill & 1 throw. I think the booty preset/swivel into X are still starting to transfer. I think my front leg is still confused. I'm curious but not going to worry about this much until I get the drills correct & ingrained.
I was trying to figure out why my Ride the bull still looked too sway-ish and not as heavy as yours. In particular, I was still landing very differently than you do here. I think it's how I stack or "sit" into each leg moving back and forth. I could tell I never really got seated into my buttcheeks which it looks like you clearly do, and which I distinctly feel when I plant in OLD. So I tried to implement what I thought that is in RTB is here and worked to beat the power stance:
and new Swivel Stairs after little changes:
Throws if relevant:
Narrow standstill after trying to land more stacked into front leg.
Slow x-step swivel drill & 1 throw. I think the booty preset/swivel into X are still starting to transfer. I think my front leg is still confused. I'm curious but not going to worry about this much until I get the drills correct & ingrained.
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
*note to self - when shifting out of Ride the bull to swing, still need to get into swivel/"preset booty" before shifting to swing.
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We are turning in opposite directions into the shift.
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
I think I'm looking at the same thing. Is another way to say it that you are shifting to close to target in the backswing so you shift from behind, but I'm still shifting from the front open?
If so gonna grab a quick RTB vid to check if I can get it.
Brychanus
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Still turning wrong way. Maybe Open to Closed Drill.
Brychanus
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Have you ever skied?
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Brychanus
* Ace Member *
No :-( My most developed motor activities (in this order) are: karate, boxing, smooth dances, rollerblading (but I never did learn slide stops). So I don't think I really have anything in my history that gets that more extreme slalom-like angled dynamic resistance side to side with that much force. And it's a problem on both sides but especially the plant - like my body is terrified to commit even though I definitely want to.
What were you thinking?
New thought
I have a new observation & proposal that I think your last few critiques also justify, but I'm not sure if you'll like it based on what you see & were thinking about skiing.
It's only been a couple days since you made that big revelation here. Today I felt one of the biggest changes I've felt in a long time. Once I changed the Ride the Bull move (pre-swing) to get more "on top" of each leg and shifting more laterally abruptly letting my feet evert rather than just swaying, it felt totally unlike anything I've done before, including my skaters. It's actually hard to say in words how different it feels. This tells me it's getting at something that was deeply wrong that has probably always been there. There was something super weird with how I shifted before that involved too much rotation at both hip sockets and not enough lateral shifting, and I think it trapped my head between my feet with weird leg action and is why my pendulum x-step was so unstable. Part of the issue that RtB also revealed to me feel-wise was that I never got fully "stacked" or "seated" into either leg - it was kind of like I was slipping sideways off the chair in transition moving leg to leg (or something). This problem gets even more obvious when I stride in the x-step. I think this is why my rocking action didn't ever quite look like yours in Reverse Stride even when other things improved. I wasn't Riding the Bull or getting onto and off of each leg correctly. It's the same problem with how I swing my body here, which I will stop sharing with people.
I've been compensating around that for a long time. I don't think I can beat the horse stance unless I learn to Ride the Bull correctly & automatically or shift to closed before I shift to swing. I also need to get comfortable doing it with momentum each way. So:
Proposal:
What if I exclusively do these drills daily for a couple weeks. My thinking is that they're all attacking different parts of the same problem:
1. Warm up w/ Open to Closed, but swing in to crush the can more staggered closed like you. I can tell my body is still trying to figure out how to get "seated" and shift while I'm undoing my horse stance - kinda the mirror issue of my plant stride. I can tell that the OtC move is related to Hershyzer and Swivel Stairs, but I think I need to exaggerate the "close" part more and get my head rebalanced in the transition into and out of the backswing.
2. Ride the Bull - do it right after OtC, minding the Pratt drill. Don't worry about swinging at all for the first week. Go progressively wider and wider (to an extreme like skiing). I could even try a side gallop with the stick inline to my spine to add momentum. Then, week 2 I could start to practice shift & swing.
3. Sprinkle in a little Swivel Stairs (always preset booty!). I can tell this is teaching me something fast and helping with "too over the top" but it's too early to fully fix my X-step because it won't work as well without 1 & 2.
4. Add these habits to warmup/preshot routines. Rehearse always setting up closed.
I could check in to see how the 3 drills look to you in 1 week to make sure I'm not straying off course.
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Just beware of over-doing Ride the Bull, you will get sore especially not being used to it.
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
Good call, I already feel it in the glutes. Will save the bigger shifts for every other day at most and see how that goes!
Thank you again, this week has taught me a lot
Have fun chucking!
azplaya25
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Mmm, this is way over top. I think we need to put you on the side of a mountain.
I struggled/still struggle with over the top. Such a hard habit to break. This video is the best "anti-over the top" drill I've ever done. Pretty sure SW recommended it to me like 3 years ago, but I recently spent a lot of time doing it and it's really helping.
Gotta get a golf club and do exactly what she's doing, thumb on the back of the handle, grip end in the middle of your chest. It feels so different but so right…
https://youtu.be/um5cS9u_Y0w
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Brychanus
* Ace Member *
Nice, thanks, I've done this one too and am putting the time in again in one leg shots. The hinge problem re-emerged somewhere for me along the way as I added bigger strides and shifts and my body reverted more to a horse stance. I definitely felt the same hinge problem when I was doing ride the bull incorrectly. I need to take the time to figure this out because my plant knee is NOT happy.
I'm optimistic that this is already helping- played a round today and was throwing better with much less knee stress. I took one bad swing on the very last tee (of course) since my shift is still unstable. This is not an easy time for me lol
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Brychanus
* Ace Member *
Woke up with a thought after you said this and then learned some new things today. It kept bothering me that I can do that Aimee drill & throw on one leg like that easily, but I keep dropping into the plant over the top.
That Aimee drill pairs nicely with the ride the bull because I can feel how it relates the new RtB plant landing. Feeling it out, I think the horse stance and hinge in calf problem are coming from the same fundamental issue (the wrong Ride the Bull axis). In fact, I can tell I had the wrong RtB axis in every single drill I've done for the last year.
Here's a swing warming up before my round. This swing is still a little too over the top with a bit of rising into the swing and not ideally "riding the bull" swinging my body in off the rear leg. It feels kind of in between a horse stance and a golf stance. I can feel the battle between the old and new stance now that we fixed my Ride the Bull. But it seems like the drills are starting to break the stubborn backwards balance and open hips and swing axis problems. I'm landing more closed and with the plant hip behind the knee, protecting me from bad torque. Swing hinge looks & feels closer to OLD. These and similar throws didn't hurt my plant knee:
On the last hole yesterday I knew I didn't swivel closed into the backswing correctly because I felt like I landed behind or "South" of my plant leg, which only happened when I was warming up if I didn't get my hips closed (Open to Closed drill). This was not over the top but it's also no bueno to the knee.
So I worked only on that drill this AM (carefully). Even when the rear hip swivel felt better, I was definitely still starting or landing too horse-stanced and over the top in that drill. When I watch Sidewinder move in his videos, I need to remind myself that he already has good movement and sometimes I need to exaggerate parts even more and see what breaks to feel the difference. So I did OtC again with more stagger, then realized I needed to exaggerate the swing axis landing the crush a bit so I was not coming down over the top. The swing hinge feels more like Aimee drill/OLD when I land. When I get leveraged with my hip behind my knee I swing through very easily and feel no knee torque.
It's not easy for me to get both legs working together as a unit yet even though I can finally feel & fix the RtB axis in each drill (it feels like night and day). E.g., here I slipped a little out of leverage in the backswing (you can see my front knee leaking behind the rear knee into the backswing) while focusing on landing in the tilted swing axis to swing when I land. I think I'm still trying to find the sweet spot of the rear foot angle that gets me out of the horse stance but lets me naturally shift & drop into the correct tilt.
I think now I'm going to work backwards in OtC drill, which has helped some things before - I'll focus on landing in the right tilted axis, which might get that rear leg to respond to be in a better position to keep me in leverage in transition.
This problem is going to be hard to solve after a childhood of hitting things in horse stances... :-(
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