Fun Suck

[Widdershins]

What obligation does a player have to facilitate their group to have fun while playing?

This is not a rules question but an ethical or "common decency" or "matter of principle" or "spirit of the game" type of question.

I was speaking to a buddy recently and he mentioned this term as a description of a mutual acquaintance, calling him a Fun Suck. An image came immediately to mind but I asked him what Fun Suck meant and he told me this guy could suck all the fun out of a four-some.

Some players, especially in competition and most especially in competition when they are playing poorly, are not fun to be with. I know I am guilty of some of that at times. But where does the line get drawn?

Is it enough just to be polite? So If I don't yell or kick my bag or distract others while throwing, have I met my obligation? Or do I owe more to my group?

 

[mike]

I think there has to be a common ground of whats acceptable...but as you pointed out, what is it. I think there has to be some leeway for poor play. I dont think slinging profanities is a good thing but being able to vent frustration should be something you need to do. People handle their misfortune differently but certain points shouldnt be reached...aka...kicking a bag across the course...

let me think more on this...

 

[Jesse B 707]

Hmmmmm, good question Mark.

I'm sure we've all been guilty of getting a bit upset sometimes when we arent playing up to our expectations. But id say we DO owe it to each other (in competition especially) to try to make the best of our round for everyone whether that be by laughing at your own shitty shot or encouraging each others discs to "Get through!" when they are headed towards a tree. I find that my best rounds happen when im with a group where we can all get past our bad shots and keep positive so i (usually ) try to facilitate that kind of round in competition

 

[Pwingles]

This is a good question IMO.

I tend to think that showing your feelings or emotion in these situations is fine. Frustration and elation are part of competing and IMO, nobody is capable of not feeling these things, if they are competitive. You dont even have to be competing with others, competing with yourself can be frustrating as well.

Having an off day from the norm can be enough to put someone in a bad mood, but knowing where to end those feelings is the key. Im not the best at it either, as i have bad days, and I believe myself to be almost hyper competitive. So this leads me to get down on myself sometimes when im not performing to my standards. But i believe in general it helps me play better and get better at the same time.

What you cannot do, is be out of line towards the people in your group due to your frustration. They didnt make you throw that shot the way you did, or miss that putt or whatever. You dont have to be negative about everything, or make comments about every play or maybe how "lucky" someone got, and you most certainly dont have to ramble about how bad of a round youre having yourself. If youre not having fun, thats too bad for you, but dont make others feel awkward for having fun around you.


I think all of these things should be common decency for anything from a pub round with friends to most competitions.

I say most because i also think that at the highest levels of competitive play, players should need to follow the rules set for the tournament only, and they should be mentally strong enough to either not complain, or to tune someone out who is. Not saying i condone that behavior, but stress, competition, and pressure can make people act like not themselves and shouldnt be looked down upon when all of those things are abundant.

Basically fun suck is a good way to sum people like that up.

 

[Timko]

I was watching the Golf Channel last night talk about John Daily's recent return to the PGA Tour. Last Friday, he said he was done playing forever. However, he later recanted, saying that he just needed some time to cool down. One of the commentators last night said that golf is a game where you're striving for something impossible: perfection. It will make you think irrational thoughts when you're playing poorly.

Now I'm not a curse and throw things kind of guy; I internalize my bad rounds. However, you can obviously tell when I'm not playing well. You can see an aura of negativity around me. That kind of negative energy can definitely affect the other people on your card. There are those who are mentally tough to ignore it, but it still requires the other players to exude effort on something other than their game, which is always a distraction, no matter how small.

Of course, these are easy things to put into words, but considerably more difficult to carry out.

 

[JHern]

Good question Mark. This was one of the only things that was disheartening to see when I made it to my first Pro tournament. I saw several players' tantrums (throwing the bag, kicking their disc(s) around, swearing profusely, ripping a branch off a tree, etc.), and the only thing it accomplished was to make them look like total jerks, and it really did take the fun out of the event. During one eruption by a very high profile player (including all of the above), Ken Climo was around and hats off to him for joking around and cheering everyone up and totally changing the atmosphere back to fun again. But there aren't enough Kens around in the world to compensate for every outburst.

In any case, I don't know if these guys, in the heat of the moment, understand how much harm they are doing; both to their own image and to the image of the sport. It is completely selfish to try and make everyone else around feel miserable when it is only the one person who is playing like crap and failing to cope with their emotions.

Probably there should be a penalty for outbursts like this, and it should take the form of a warning, penalty strokes, then ejection. Probably the TD should give a warning at the first sign of unacceptable behavior just to give a person a chance to modify their behavior, and let them know what was unacceptable/should be stopped. This would mitigate people being "surprised" about being penalized, and allow the TD and player to come to an understanding about acceptable behavior before any penalty action is taken. Then, if the poor behavior doesn't stop, penalty strokes should be added (maybe something like 1 stroke for each inappropriate word/comment, physical outburst, etc.). If it still continues, then they're out of the tournament (call the police if necessary to remove them). Players ejected from tournaments should be suspended from playing any other tournaments for one year, unless they can provide proof of attending some sort of therapy or counseling to deal with their anger issues.

 

[Jody Mitchell]

I was watching the Golf Channel last night talk about John Daily's recent return to the PGA Tour. Last Friday, he said he was done playing forever. However, he later recanted, saying that he just needed some time to cool down. One of the commentators last night said that golf is a game where you're striving for something impossible: perfection. It will make you think irrational thoughts when you're playing poorly.

Now I'm not a curse and throw things kind of guy; I internalize my bad rounds. However, you can obviously tell when I'm not playing well. You can see an aura of negativity around me. That kind of negative energy can definitely affect the other people on your card. There are those who are mentally tough to ignore it, but it still requires the other players to exude effort on something other than their game, which is always a distraction, no matter how small.

Of course, these are easy things to put into words, but considerably more difficult to carry out.

Couldn't agree more with this, especially the part about striving for perfection. No matter how good we get, it's never really good enough. You can see an example of this type when watching Nikko play. No matter how great at the game he gets, he still has feelings to vent when he has a bad day (yelling, kicking bag/baskset, etc.), hell, we all do.

Great post Timko.

 

[Firios]

Personally, I feel that there are two kinds of fun-sucks, and I have definitely been guilty of both.

Fun Suck 1: The stuff everybody has already mentioned. Sucking it up, and letting everybody know it. Even if you keep it to yourself, it's painfully obvious to everyone that you are getting pissy (especially when I get in this state). It sucks, but it's definitely part of the game for anyone competitive (aka people who check this site).


Fun Suck 2: People who play at a level of seriousness above the level of who they are playing with. Most of the time when I play with people who don't often play disc golf, and are just playing for fun, I end up trying to play to my usual practice caliber. This usually leads to me being quiet and pensive (I focus on getting into the "zone" and thinking about my shots), while my friends are clearly having more fun and being boisterous. I don't know how annoyed they can get, but it is DEFINITELY a possibility.

 

[tigel]

I think the majority of someone's rounds should be conducted in a manor that doesn't offend others by your actions. If every bad shot makes you cry or say a curse word, I really don't want to play with you. Someone who does that shouldn't be playing at a professional level, and as far as I've noticed, no one does.

There's a reason too. Those who can control their emotions for the most part will succeed further than those who can't. This is just my philosophy, and I stick to it. Past coaches from other sports (basketball in particular) always told me this. Don't loose your cool in the game, loose it after. It destroys your mental game and it will only get worse.

The line for me is as soon as someone freaks the hell out on multiple holes, I just ignore them. I don't mind giving someone a few chances before I zone them out. Everyone can get frustrated, especially at my level. It's gonna happen, there's no way to ask for perfection amongst fellow golfers. They don't ruin the fun for me, because I don't allow myself to get effected by their bullshit. When I play any game, my main focus is on me. I don't ignore others, I'm quite social when I need to be. I'll crack jokes whenever I can, I want my card to be smiling and having a good time. I just wont go the distance and let some stupid head effect my game.

 

[Parks]

Ideally, everyone is fun to play with. Realistically, that isn't going to happen.

You don't owe anyone anything, but you need to be prepared to reap the consequences.

People generally want to play with fun people, and if everyone in a group is having fun then often they shoot better than normal.

If you're a douchebag, then no one will want to play with you and you need to be prepared to be stroked in tournament play for extreme outbreaks.

 

[Frank Delicious]

Technically in tourney play a person is only required to maintain a level of decency just above what would get them a courtesy violation.

In a casual round I just don't play with guys who are fun suckers.

 

[black udder]

Yeah, I'd say when you're playing more single rounds than doubles and it's not your choice, then it's a hint.

Me, I'm fairly quiet, I like some chatter after the drive and between holes, but not so much that it's distracting to play.

I find the bag kicking and loud swearing embarrassing. I think you're find muttering under your breath but taking it further than that is poor sportsmanship.

I think that the frustration that causes the outbursts comes from unrealistic expectations and putting too much pressure on yourself to perform.

As it was stated, the goal is to be perfect, but we know nobody is going to play a perfect game (at least not every time), so you have to understand that you won't and accept your failings. If you can't do that, I guarantee that the constant thought and negativity you exude will just produce more failure.

I believe that the toughest opponent you can face is one that never seems to get rattled and is as cool as a cucumber regardless of what happens.

 

[JHBlader86]

I'm bi-polar when on the course. When I'm doing well I'm jumping for joy, cracking jokes, pepping people when they mess up, and running around like a kid with ADHD. I try to be the guy who makes the group have fun, and realize it's just a game. It's these moments where I've had people come up to me after tournaments and say how glad they were to have met me, and how I made the tournament worth it just getting to hang out with me.

But when I'm not doing well I swear like a drunk sailor on shore leave, kick my bag and/or the baskets, and start sulking up. You can see the look of frustration and anger on my face, and I refuse to talk to anyone. I internalize very negative thoughts about how badly I want to beat the shit out of someone not in disc golf, but physically for beating me, especially when it's someone who I always beat. I get in a very narcissistic mindset where I think I deserve this or that, and they arent worthy of beating me. I am the true Fun Suck in this situation.

 

[Working Stiff]

I think when I started playing there was a more top to bottom feeling that sportsmanship and camaraderie were important, maybe more important than the competition. Disc golf tournaments were parties and swap meets and camp outs with friends and oh, yeah we golfed a little. That attitude went from the Open Pros to the lowly Am's. We were a very little family comparatively. I think it was easy for us to basically get along. I remember thinking one time that I needed to lighten up because I could tell I was getting on this guys nerves, and I was supposed to be crashing at his place in a month at another tournament. It was either stop being a fun suck or find another place to sleep.

As time went on you started to see the sport grow, which was a good thing. Instead of going to a tournament and seeing 35 guys that you knew, there were 70 guys and you didn't know half of them. With the bigger fields came more anonymity. Bigger fields brought bigger payouts. Now people were competing against people they really didn't know well for some decent cash. More seriousness creep into the events, and with the seriousness came more of the fun suck.

Now there is a kind of disconnect of the top of the sport. Sportsmanship and camaraderie do not seem to be on the agenda in the MPO fields. They are competing. They are playing for cash. There is tension on those cards. Those guys exist largely in an environment of fun suck. For them that's OK. For them the fun is the competition, the goal is to play well and be compensated for it. For the most part they don't need a big smile and pat on the back to go with it.

Some of those things filter down. Some guys take their cue from the big boys, so the fun suck behavior creeps in. For me playing as an amateur, I think it is really part of my responsibility to stay away from fun suck. I take time away from my family, my job, and my responsibilities to come out and play disc golf for a weekend, and I do that to have a good time, relive some stress and throw plastic into trees. Any prize payout that might be on the line is so far down on the list of reasons I'm playing that it's not worth mentioning. I don't want a fun suck screwing up my weekend, and by the same token I don't want to be the fun suck for someone else. At my level the game is about the experience, and I owe it to myself and to everyone on my card to avoid being a douchebag and protect the experience for all of us.

 

[BrotherDave]

If me swearing like a sailor and kicking my bag takes the jam out of your jelly doughnut, that's your problem. Playing basketball I couldn't complain about other players trash talking or cursing, I just had to play through it. On the other hand, I'm not a douchebag by nature and even on my worst days of disc golf I tend to laugh at myself but players throwing temper tantrums do not bother me one bit. Breaking twigs is a dick move though.

 

[JHern]

In a way there is a difference in personalities emerging here, and its interesting to note. For example, everybody here at DGR knows I'm pretty hardcore about learning/understanding deeply the fundamental mechanics of throwing and the flight physics of the disc, and if you guessed I'm somewhat obsessed with it, you'd be at least 1/2-way right (my wife is fully convinced, but lucky for me, she joins me in it). But in my playing, I'm not out to prove anything to anyone other than myself. Maybe its just that after accomplishing a lot of very difficult goals in my life already, I don't really have to prove myself any more, I simply want to spend the rest of my life seeking excellence in the pursuits I enjoy. For me, that's the very essence of life. That is what makes life truly interesting.

But still, I do understand testing oneself against other good players. I joined in with one of the best groups I've ever played with just the other day, and I had the tee for 5 straight holes, outscoring all of them (even a guy who had a decent 400' drive). And while it was nice, I didn't come away with any kind of deep satisfaction or anything, since I was judging myself by much more stringent standards. What standards are these?

Perfection, indeed. The hard part is knowing that you've previously made exactly the kind of throw that would be absolutely perfect in the present circumstance. Even if you haven't, you can see it, and visualize it, and the beauty of even its potential execution is like an elixir. You get high on it. That's the very essence of disc golf.

But when you can't pull it off, it seems like a direct challenge to your vitality itself. So, OK, I'm just like the rest of y'all. Sucking it up on the course sucks. But I'll always suck it up when I suck it up. I guess that's the difference in personalities.

 

[Star Shark]

I probably AM the fun suck in my area. I put alot of pressure on myself to get better and with all the work I put in, when that doesn't happen, I get really upset. I played a couple rounds today, the first was pathetic. I shot 9 over with 4 birdies <a double and a triple and 8 bogeys>. The second round I shot 5 birdies, 3 bogeys and a double. Given the missed shots and such that were completely unnecessary in the 2nd round, I could have shot 8 under if I'd played clean <I missed 3 birdie putts in a row>. During the first round I was unpleasant to be around because every bad shot I knew I could throw better. Much the same happened in the 2nd round where I had my 3 bogeys in a row <I went bogey, bogey, double during that stretch in the first round>. Perhaps it's a sad commentary on me, but disc golf is quite literally all I have. If I'm not improving at it, I'm not happy. I get to the point where I wonder why I even get out of bed if DG isn't going to make me happy. I've literally no interest in relationships or career. Basically none of the things that make one a solid citizen. I've been losing it for years, since well before DG came along. I suppose it's just provided a new outlet for my frustrations with life and my own nature.

 

[Easy]

I used to be "that guy" in competitive tennis. Played at a high level, won trophies, idolized the likes of Connors, McEnroe, etc. Yeah, I tossed some rackets, yelled some things, made an ass of myself.

Looking back at it, I scratch my head and wonder. I think maybe I put too much pressure on myself. I "needed" to win. Too much ego tied up in the whole competitiveness thing.

Now, I suck at disc golf. I'm on this site because it is the first one I stumbled across when looking for what discs I should start out with, and Blake's intro article was my bible for a while.
I suck, and it is actually a relief to play something where I don't necessarily know every little nuance in what I am doing wrong. Played my first tournament last summer and I was terrified.
Yup, terrified. Not by the young dudes with huge arms and sharp game, but by myself. I was really worried that "the beast" would re-emerge.

No beast. In truth, I sucked about twice as much as I usually do and thouroughly embarassed myself in the level of suck I exhibited at the tournament. But I smiled and cracked wise while I was doing it, met some guys around my skill range, learned a few things, and went home with perhaps one of the worse athletic performances ever witnessed by mankind firmly tucked under my belt.

Why am I telling you this? To get to the point of course! The point is this: I did not "need" to win. The money, the trophy, whatever - did not need it. I was finally playing, really playing, for just the play itself, the experience of playing and having a good time. It is kind of like gambling - you never gamble with the rent money or anything else you cannot afford to lose - not only is it dumb in general, it leads to bad play and bad choices.

If you are not playing this game for fun, you may need to take a step or two back and reexamine your priorities. Riches, fame, and groupies don't much come with this gig. We are not machines, sure, and even a pro can have a bad day. I pity the tournament director that has to deal with stuff like bag kicking and swearing, but it does need to be dealt with, and promptly. It is good for the group and, in the long run, it is good for the individual.

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As a side note, if you are the Mark Ellis that does the cool instructional video series ( and I suspect you are from the fav disc being the Rattler ), I'd like to say I really appreciate your time and efforts making these vids. Kudos!

 

[Beable]

Spirit of the game should be an important theme in any disc sport.

 

[discspeed]

Some of the players I know and play with frequently will try to pull me in as a "witness" when they are playing bad or getting tough breaks in a tournament. Like "oh my god, can you believe that!!??) and they will look at me like I'm supposed to give testament to their poor luck. Sometimes it even goes so far as "have you ever seen me do that!!??". This stuff is annoying. When someone is shrouded in negativity I try to ignore them. I don't even want to watch them throw. I'll look away when they're on the pad and then try to find their disc in the air after they release so I can help find it or make a call if necessary. Masters level players love to suck each other's fun. Last Moccasin Lake Open we passed by the lead card of masters...I was going to say hi to Brad Hammock because we had won the doubles together the day before, but someone on his card was barking (Billy Seamen) and Brad looked crazy. Its funny because I thought he must be having a terrible round (he was in a great mood the whole time we played doubles, really nice guy), but when I looked at the board after the round he beat everyone on his card by 4 strokes.