Here's my drive - how can I improve?

[Vintervilan]

Here's a video of me throwing some distance shots. I'm trying to get the heel pivot right, aswell as the acceleration. I can't seem to get a natural feel on the heel pivot, and I was hoping you could give me some pointers

 

[Asian Style]

Took me awhile in the beginning to realize this, but the heel pivot will happen naturally as a consequence of planting your foot heel down, shifting your weight, and pivoting your hip. You don't really have to consciously do it.

If you want my .02, I'd advise you to slow down and build your throw piece by piece starting with the bare essentials. Try doing a standing throw without the run up. There is so much going on in your throw, trying to fix everything at once might be difficult and confusing. Start the disc at the middle of your chest with your elbow facing the target. Use 80% power and a balanced stance. I think just about any able bodied person should be able to go 200+ feet on a straight line from a standing throw. If you can't do that, then something is wrong and it's easier to fix because there are less variables to tweak.

The power will come from you shifting your weight, bracing, and pivoting your hip.

 

[Vintervilan]

Took me awhile in the beginning to realize this, but the heel pivot will happen naturally as a consequence of planting your foot heel down, shifting your weight, and pivoting your hip. You don't really have to consciously do it.

If you want my .02, I'd advise you to slow down and build your throw piece by piece starting with the bare essentials. Try doing a standing throw without the run up. There is so much going on in your throw, trying to fix everything at once might be difficult and confusing. Start the disc at the middle of your chest with your elbow facing the target. Use 80% power and a balanced stance. I think just about any able bodied person should be able to go 200+ feet on a straight line from a standing throw. If you can't do that, then something is wrong and it's easier to fix because there are less variables to tweak.

The power will come from you shifting your weight, bracing, and pivoting your hip.

Thank you for your reply Yeah, I think I put too much focus on trying to get my heel rotation in place that it affects the rest of the throw in a negative way. Thing is, when everything feels natural for me, I tend to ball pivot instead, and when I focus on the heel pivot, I tend to straighten my leg and lift the ball of the foot, putting alot of strain on the shin instead. You're not really suppose to actively lift the ball of the foot, right?

 

[The Mad Cow]

i've been trying to focus on getting my footwork better, here's a drill that i have found to be helpful:
i use a golf club, but a broom or anything like that will work.
hold it behind you at the small of your back, then do your run-up.
for me, the handle of the club is a " pointer " that shows how much hip turn i'm getting in the reach back position... and since there is no arm motion, it's very easy to focus on the plant, brace, pivot.
have been doing this drill for 10-15 mins a day this week. great results w/ my putters and mids @ 250'.
with better footwork, it takes much less effort to get the disc to the target.
REALLY looking forward to taking this out to the course tomorrow.

 

[Vintervilan]

i've been trying to focus on getting my footwork better, here's a drill that i have found to be helpful:
i use a golf club, but a broom or anything like that will work.
hold it behind you at the small of your back, then do your run-up.
for me, the handle of the club is a " pointer " that shows how much hip turn i'm getting in the reach back position... and since there is no arm motion, it's very easy to focus on the plant, brace, pivot.
have been doing this drill for 10-15 mins a day this week. great results w/ my putters and mids @ 250'.
with better footwork, it takes much less effort to get the disc to the target.
REALLY looking forward to taking this out to the course tomorrow.

Hey, that's a pretty cool idea right there! Gonna give it a try tomorrow

 

[slowplastic]

I agree with Asian Style that the pivot is a result, not a goal.

I also think you are moving too quickly. Remember, it's a rotation that gets the disc up to speed, not forward motion of your body. Perhaps your shoulders are moving forward too much during the throw (from speed/weight shift?) rather than rotating "around" your plant leg and staying a little behind it (the "bracing" term). When this happens correctly, you will naturally pivot around the foot rather than swinging in front of it and needing to step forward as aggressively in the follow through.

Focus on trying to swing around your axis rather than going "forwards".

 

[Vintervilan]

I agree with Asian Style that the pivot is a result, not a goal.

I also think you are moving too quickly. Remember, it's a rotation that gets the disc up to speed, not forward motion of your body. Perhaps your shoulders are moving forward too much during the throw (from speed/weight shift?) rather than rotating "around" your plant leg and staying a little behind it (the "bracing" term). When this happens correctly, you will naturally pivot around the foot rather than swinging in front of it and needing to step forward as aggressively in the follow through.

Focus on trying to swing around your axis rather than going "forwards".

Well put. I agree that I'm probably trying to speed up the disc with my body rather than with the rotation. I think my best bet is to walk the x-step rather than running it. Another problem I have is that I look at Will Schusterick (which in my opinion has one of the cleanest drives) and try to copy it. No fault in doing that, but that doesn't happen over night.

 

[sidewinder22]

You do what nearly everyone does in the beginning. I agree moving to a standstill on working the hit backwards will help and work on developing snap, hammer drills, pec drill, need to get your elbow way out forward before it straightens(Dan Beto says in his vid"going from back here to up here adds anywhere from 60-100' or more" he's talking about you here). In your x-step you try to push off your rear heel and extend the rear knee and lift your toes off the ground, this is very bad, you kill all your forward/targetward leverage from the rear side at that point. Need to keep the toes on the ground and heel should lead the toes off the ground forward. Your balance is going to change quite a bit.

This thread should help:
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106752

 

[Vintervilan]

You do what nearly everyone does in the beginning. I agree moving to a standstill on working the hit backwards will help and work on developing snap, hammer drills, pec drill, need to get your elbow way out forward before it straightens(Dan Beto says in his vid"going from back here to up here adds anywhere from 60-100' or more" he's talking about you here). In your x-step you try to push off your rear heel and extend the rear knee and lift your toes off the ground, this is very bad, you kill all your forward/targetward leverage from the rear side at that point. Need to keep the toes on the ground and heel should lead the toes off the ground forward. Your balance is going to change quite a bit.

This thread should help:
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106752

Thank you! Gonna do some work on the standstill this week for sure I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this though:

"In your x-step you try to push off your rear heel and extend the rear knee and lift your toes off the ground, this is very bad, you kill all your forward/targetward leverage from the rear side at that point. Need to keep the toes on the ground and heel should lead the toes off the ground forward. Your balance is going to change quite a bit. "

 

[Vintervilan]

Oh, do you mean that I should be pushing of with my toes instead of my heel on the actualy x-step with my left leg?

Like in this picture where I use the heel just before I plant my final step:

 

[Vintervilan]

Ok, so I took a couple of hours doing some stand still drives and here are the video results. I think I open up my hips too much, and I need to work more on my elbow, it seems I'm pulling in a more wider angle than I should.






Where do I go from here? Should I lean back more when reaching back?

 

[Vintervilan]

Hmm, I also see, looking at the first video in slow motion, that I back my ass up towards the direction I'm going to throw. Doesn't it take alot of wasted energy to turn my body instead of just my hips, thus losing throwing power?

 

[sidewinder22]

Oh, do you mean that I should be pushing of with my toes instead of my heel on the actualy x-step with my left leg?

Like in this picture where I use the heel just before I plant my final step:

Yes, most pros don't even let the heel touch the ground. You will need to turn your rear foot toward the target more and turn your body back further, loading/coiling the rear hip, not lean back.

 

[sidewinder22]

Ok, so I took a couple of hours doing some stand still drives and here are the video results. I think I open up my hips too much, and I need to work more on my elbow, it seems I'm pulling in a more wider angle than I should.


Where do I go from here? Should I lean back more when reaching back?

Need to close your stance/front foot/hip closer to the left side of the tee.

 

[sidewinder22]

Also when you swing into the backswing you lift your front heel up way early. It should be the last thing to move because it gets pulled up from the hip turn.

 

[Vintervilan]

Need to close your stance/front foot/hip closer to the left side of the tee.

Great, that video was awesome. I've been standing with my feet in a straight line towards the basket. That stance, is that implemented in the x-step aswell?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

yes and exaggerated in a run up direction depending on the shot you are going to throw.

Two: Run-Up
This is the part where you need to be coordinated, smooth, and somewhat rhythmic. Some players even take a running start before going into the classic run-up. I don't do this, nor do I recommend it, because I get out of control when I try it. For some people, though, it does help them get a rhythm. When I am feeling particularly out of rhythm, or unsure of a drive, I will bounce on the balls of my feet or shuffle my feet a little bit to get my rhythm before I start my run-up.

I have heard the proper run-up called a 3-step run-up, or X-step run-up, or Scissor-step run-up. They all refer to the same steps.

The 3-step run-up is really all about proper weight distribution and leverage to generate more momentum and power, and allowing for a proper pull back of the disc to maximize disc speed upon release. Being in control and balanced will also give you accuracy.

Start at the back of the tee pad. Whether you stand toward the middle, or right, or left will depend upon which way you want the disc to fly. You will learn this with experience. If you stand on the bottom right side, and make your run up across the tee pad and finish on the top left of the tee pad, it is a little easier to turn the disc over. Likewise, if you start at the bottom left, and make your run up across the tee pad and finish on the top right, it is a little easier to throw big hyzer. Straight run up makes straight shots a little easier. You can also do combinations of run up angle and the angle you release in order to accomplish different throws. For instance, I like to throw what I call a "straight hyzer" shot. I take a "turn over" angle on my run up, starting from bottom right and finishing at top left, but instead of throwing anhyzer angle, I release the disc with a little hyzer. In this way the disc flies very flat in a straight line with good distance. You will figure all this out in time as you experiment. Stand perpendicular to the basket/fairway, at the back of the tee pad. Your weight should be balanced between both of your feet. Your right foot should be closer to the basket than your left. Toes pointing 90 degrees away from basket or fairway. People with longer legs may have to actually stand off the back of the tee pad. You are going to take three steps and release. The smoother and more fluid (almost rhythmic) you can become at this, the better. Another thing to keep in mind... don't throw as hard as you can. Most good golfers will agree, best results are achieved when you throw at about 80% strength. Your accuracy is better and, believe it or not, your average distance is better too.

The first step is your right. Step outward toward the basket at about a 45 degree angle with your right foot. As you step, shift your weight onto your right foot. This can be a big or small step depending on what is comfortable. Keep your eye on your target as you make this step. Start to lift your disc to your chest height.

Second step is your left. You need to step your left foot behind and past your right foot. You also need to turn so your left foot points behind you, in the direction of your pull back, opposite the direction of the basket/fairway. This will cause your legs, hips, back and shoulders to swivel. This is a good thing. As you swivel, you will need to execute your proper pull back of the disc and you will feel the natural shifting of your weight onto your left foot. In order to do a proper pull back, you will need to rotate your head with your shoulders, thus taking your eyes off your target. That's ok, you already knew where you planned to throw when you started this. You should now be reaching backward with the disc, with your back turned to the basket/fairway.

Third step is the right again. You accelerate as you go through this step and release. Allow your momentum to shift your weight toward the basket. Lift your right foot and move it forward. Swivel back around toward the basket. Your plan is to plant your right foot toward the front of the tee pad and release the disc. The swivel starts with your left foot, moves through your legs, hips, back and shoulders, the disc is already moving across your chest as you start to plant your right foot. Shift your weight to your right, release, and allow yourself to follow through. The follow through should end with your chest pointing down the fairway and your right hand palm up, arm straight behind you.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/drivingform.shtml

 

[Vintervilan]

Also when you swing into the backswing you lift your front heel up way early. It should be the last thing to move because it gets pulled up from the hip turn.

Would you mind taking a screenshot of the particular thing you mean here? Sorry for being dumb or something, but I blame the language barrier And I really appreciate you helping me.

 

[Vintervilan]

yes and exaggerated in a run up direction depending on the shot you are going to throw.

ah, so basically the line between left foot and right foot depends on wether I want to throw left, right or middle. Kinda like "\" if I want to throw left, "I" if I want to go straight and "/" if I want to go right?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

well its actually opposite of that as it allows for better positioning of the body for the angle which you are trying to release.

For example throwing a big anhyzer or tight hyzerflip is much easier when running up \ (from back right to the front left) as it opens your stance up a bit more and is very exaggerated for shots like a roller which I often approach from almost 90 degrees from the right of the teepad. From the example above (and a shot I use alllllll the time for straight lazer lines or late flipping turnovers if using a understable disc)

I like to throw what I call a "straight hyzer" shot. I take a "turn over" angle on my run up, starting from bottom right and finishing at top left, but instead of throwing anhyzer angle, I release the disc with a little hyzer. In this way the disc flies very flat in a straight line with good distance

Vise-versa coming from the back left for a hyzer shot as its keeping your shoulders/body closed much more naturally in relationship to where you are throwing. IMO when trying to throw a straight shot it is MUCH easier to run up slightly right to left vs straight and in doing this you almost feel like you are aiming too far "left" but actually aiming with the body and not trying to throw a Frisbee catch toss anymore.