I can BARELY break 300'

[Plasticsnapsauce]

So like the title says, I can just barely break 300' on only my best drives and I would like to get some objective opinions on things I can do to improve my, surely, very flawed form.

This is my first video and I read the PSA for best practices just a moment ago, so I will apologetically warn viewers about the less than great video quality. I plan on recording some better videos soon but wanted to see if anyone could give me some preliminary ideas on what I'm doing wrong.

Thank you for any feedback anyone can give.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1ew_JRzICvq1QXAA2I6n032PJiNmBTpkc

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Your x-step is too long and off balance and turning front foot open so you end up in wide immoveable horsestance with both feet weighted on ground instead of weight shifted forward to front leg. Your upper body is behind/outside your rear foot striding into the plant. Need to keep your body more in-front/inside your rear foot to leverage yourself and turn further back into the hip more upright, instead of leaning back over it. Stop trying to shift your weight back and forth, weightshift happens by being balanced inside your posture.

2. You are hugging yourself. Need to keep your upper arm wide away from chest.

Start with Power of Posture and Stop Hugging Yourself.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119328

 

[slowplastic]

I would watch this video for starters. There is a ton of info so it will keep giving more and more new info as you progress and the next things make sense.

But you're going through the wide horse stance and tipping/tossing your upper body back and forth. Opening up a lot into the plant. It should feel way more compact/narrow and therefore quicker. It's about balance rather than feeling like you're planted and strong.

 

[Meillo]

Your comparison pictures with the lines in it are very helpful! Thanks a lot for that effort! It's definitely worthwhile.

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

Thank you so much for the videos and the advice. I went back out to my field and threw a bit after watching several of these videos a few times and I found that I was only throwing slightly farther but that it was so much more effortless when I stopped consciously shifting my weight back and forth. After doing this I now realize that the way I was throwing before was actually causing me some pain in my side and right knee, whereas now I am pain free after throwing for more than an hour.

The videos specifically on crushing the can and weight shifting for a ball golf swing has helped immensely. Power of posture is also FANTASTIC. For the year or so that I have been trying to improve my form I never understood what people meant about "opening/closing" the hips or loading the hips. My whole x step is now much more compact.

I am still working on not hugging myself. Something I find interesting is that keeping my arm angle wide is something I already knew about, and something that I absolutely did not realize was still collapsing during my throw until I recorded myself.

The feedback and your series of videos has given me a ton of insight and I cannot thank you guys enough. I plan on practicing the new throw for the next couple of days and will post another video once I feel like I got that down pat.

 

[slowplastic]

Easier is good, often times it will feel more efficient initially and you may gain some distance over a few sessions. But definitely should gain consistency.

Also check your grip...I can't tell from the video but not throwing nose down enough is a cause to have your distance cap out no matter how hard you throw. You may also have your thumb too far to the edge of the disc which makes it hard to pressure the disc enough...typically you want the thumb at minimum where the flight plate meets the rim, or farther in than that even. It doesn't have to match up onto the index finger exactly. I like to align the disc slightly down of the forearm angle as shown in this article, so experiment a bit. https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/gripittoripit.shtml

Swinging something heavier can help with feeling when your arm collapses, it will yank on the arm and make it much more apparent than a 175g disc that then gets shot out of your hand rather than pulling on you if you do something wrong.

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

Alright, so I lied in that I don't have a video with this post, but I feel it necessary to share.

Today I went to my field and I threw my go to straight to stable fairway driver, a dynamic discs moonshine escape.

I have been told that this disc is actually an understable mold but it always acted perfectly stable for me with only tiny bit of turn (once in a while) and plenty of fade.

When I threw my Escape today it turned far more than usual and it went out to around 320' after only about 4 warm up throws. This is definitely the longest throw in my life, and it felt like I was using only 75% of the energy I would have before with still no pain. It felt easy.

Breaking the distance plateau I was at feels great, and while I originally came here looking for more distance, I have also gained something that I think will be more valuable.

Before, about one out of every 10 -15 shots I threw would just fly off between 30 and 45 degrees to the right. The disc would come out level and would fly well, so no wrist rolling, but it would just be straight up aimed wrong. This has been one of the most frustrating things to fix as most of the "I throw too far right" videos and posts focus on pulling in a straight line and holding the disc out away from the body, which I was focusing on a lot, but wasn't actually doing properly because of how my lower body was moving.

Correcting my weight shift issues has stopped me from turning my body to face the target (opening) too early, which was not only robbing me of distance, but also accuracy. I think my drives will be vastly more consistent from this point on.

The grip article was a good read. Overall my grip was decent and I was already focusing on having the disc pivot and "rip" but one thing that I wasn't doing was gripping the disc all that hard. After correcting my weight shif and keeping my elbow forward I am finally feeling the ever elusive "snap, hit, rip, disc pivot, power pocket" thing that I always read about. Now, gripping the disc harder feels like it will propel it farther, instead of "griplocking" the disc.

I still plan on posting more form checks in the future, but I just wanted to thank Sidewinder and Slowplastic, as well as all the other gurus, for taking the time to diligently scan these threads and give us this personalized advice

If anyone else is having a plateau and all the stuff you're reading and watching on the internet just doesn't seem to be adding up or making a difference, I strongly urge you to just go ahead and post a form check. My video was by no means high quality or optimal and these guys were still able to help me get the biggest burst of progress I have ever had.

Sorry for the long post, I'm just still riding the high of pushing out that max D.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

Sorry for the long post, I'm just still riding the high of pushing out that max D.

Dude, do not apologize for a long post this is your thread and you have... after ONE form critique broke through a major barrier. F-ing celebrate!!!!

You also discovered something I have thought was awesome in this sub-section of the forum is that accuracy and power grow together. In other areas of the forums a subject will start about throwing far and several people always chime in they'd rather throw accurately to < 300' than spray around the course like those 400' throwers. Well from what i've experienced and seen with others in this section when I can break 400' on command it will be accurate as well.

Congrats to the big first step, getting rid of the shank to the right is huge. Keep it smooth, and don't get too bent when there is a bit of regression on some things either, the process can be 2 steps forward one step back often so stay patient.

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

Alright so I'm back with another video of where I am so far. I think I may still be hugging myself but I honestly can't tell very well. Any other thoughts though would be appreciated.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1p980sS-vvY6dnbhEP2cr-jovEYaOgStV

 

[slowplastic]

There's lots of things going on with your body positioning, back leg locking up, pushing off the heel, and pushing your body in front of the plant and overtop. But I think the next thing to do is go through your swing and X-step with something heavy like a hammer or wrench in your hand. You are not connected through your body and you aren't using a tempo/rhythm to swing your arm with your body. With something heavy you will feel how to move it smoothly and move around it.

As well, your first left foot step in behind is much too far...it gets way in front of your body. You can only leverage your body if it is inside of your stance, so you need to step shorter and/or hop so that your body stays with that foot rather than falling behind it.

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

"so you need to step shorter and/or hop so that your body stays with that foot rather than falling behind it."

That makes a lot of sense thank you. I am at work but I will definitely go swing something heavier around once I get a chance. Does it matter if I'm throwing said heavy object or should I just keep it in my hand, does it make a difference?

Also I want to ask what you meant by back leg locking up. I've not heard that one before.

 

[slowplastic]

I actually meant to say "within" the foot if that makes sense too. If you let your rear foot get ahead of your rear hip/shoulder/mass then you have to wait for your body to catch up before you can have any leverage. Basically once your foot is on the ground and is starting to support any weight, draw a vertical line and see where your body is relative to that foot. Right now once it hits the ground your entire body is still behind it.

By your leg locking up, and this is also related to how you stride, your leg is stiff/straight knee immediately. You kind of just tip over the back leg rather than being able to drive from it. If you watch pro's, their rear knee all drives forward/inward and they leave the foot heel first. You tip over a straight leg and leave heel last as the leg rotates on its own axis rather than shift any weight.

I'm sure throwing the object would help a lot, but even just using it to feel how to use its mass with the X-step should be greatly beneficial. Trying to swing it hard while holding on kind of changes the arcs and intention...like holding on to a baseball bat to hit a ball away from you vs. trying to throw the bat that direction. When a baseball player accidentally has a bat slip it goes 45 degrees behind them into the stands, not to the outfield where the ball would have gone. For me it wasn't too hard to adjust those arcs but I've also made a million changes to my form over time. I would just recommend doing it somewhere safe so you don't have any worries about holding back so you avoid damaging something. Letting the motion flow makes a big difference.

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

So I grabbed myself a hammer and was swinging it a bit in my room, and I feel like I was getting a rhythm down. Went outside my house and on the first swing I threw that hammer directly into my roommate's window lol. Just remember everyone to not do any throwing of any kind anywhere near glass.

That aside though I feel like the hammer swinging was helping somewhat and I will be posting a video soon of some new throws. Until I do that though I wanted to ask what it was that you were seeing in my throw that said that the hammer throwing would help, and is there anything else I can do in addition to the hammer practice?

In addition to that I am having trouble getting my body to be in the right place as my left foot goes in to the x step. You were saying to draw a line once my foot starts support weight and I feel like if I move so that my body is doing this as I think you are describing, I feel like I'm moving really fast and messing up timing on other things. Does that sound like I'm doing something wrong or do I just need to do it more to get used to it?

 

[slowplastic]

Heh I did say to do it somewhere safe...

If you look at how far your left foot stride is, like how much ground it covers, then yes your body would have to be moving forward very fast to stay inside of the instep. Look at McBeth's left foot stride in this throw, probably half to two thirds as much ground as you cover.

The reason for the hammer is to get some connection through your body to your hand/disc. Right now you are lifting the disc up, at some point choosing to reach back with it, holding it back for some amount of time, and then throwing. The goal should be to have a firm connection with the arm through the body so that the arm loads back with the torso and you can leverage the disc during the entire throwing motion. With something heavy you have to let it have momentum and feel when to swing it/add to the swing, or else it will be very difficult. I do find that it is very slow in comparison to a disc, but it lets you feel when to add to the swings and get out of the way, a well as using your hips/legs to start all the motions.

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bb6VwxzRsCuCksu4RUT0f53lSgdGvseo

Here is the newest video. I think I may still be having a lot of the same issues but I did do the hammer practice so it feels more consistent at least. Let me know whatcha see.

 

[slowplastic]

The big thing to me is that you are shifting your weight in front of the brace leg, so you kind of spin freely and don't get any continued leverage with a brace. If you filmed from the back, your rear hip would spin around to the left of the plant leg, rather than driving forward and transferring that momentum, then acting as a counterweight.

It's a concept that has to click, here are some ideas https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127477

 

[UhhNegative]

And to add to that, if you can do the Kick the Can/Ball drill and land balanced, then you will not have shifted your upper body past the brace. If you push your upper body past the front foot, you will basically fall after you kick the ball.

 

[UhhNegative]

Do you see how SW22 stays behind his brace leg (don't pay attention to the rotation of the upper body) and you are already tilting past the brace? Look at the difference in the orientation of the spines.

 

[sidewinder22]

The x-step isn't helping anything. Steps are way too long and off balance/posture. I'd recommend again watching Power of Posture and Understanding Weightshift - turn back and forth like you have a bunch of weight on your shoulders.

Note in the pic above how I'm in dynamic athletic posture, I could squat a bunch of weight over my shoulders as I plant on the front leg, and note how my weight is completely off the rear foot and rear knee bent, and my chest is tilted forward toward knees(athletic ready/squat position) on a braced front leg.

If you had a bunch of weight on your shoulders in the pic above you would do the splits on the rear leg and fall behind your heel/right tee side as your balance/posture is not stacked up on front foot. Your weight is still stuck on the back foot and rear knee fully extended. Also your chest is tilted back away from your knees so you are not in athletic or squat ready position.

 

[Plasticsnapsauce]

Ok, so I read a lot of the different things in the link that Slowplastic posted and the baseball pitcher helped me to understand that I really need to lead with the hips (I think). I started just x stepping around my room and I think that I understand this a little better now and why having a closed stance allows you to use your weight better.

However when I go out to throw and I film myself I still feel like I'm doing the same thing that I've been doing. Shortening my x step has been very difficult and I'm not entirely sure why, this may just be trying to fight against old muscle memory.

I made a new video and before I throw I even sort of mime out a slow motion x step with the hip leading. I feel like I'm close to actually being able to use my hips and lower body in my throw but its just not quite clicking yet.

I watched power of posture again and I can feel the torque/ resistance from rotating my hips against my femurs, while keeping my weight between my feet at shoulder width. What I don't quite understand is how I'm supposed to use that resistance to throw. I also understand that keeping my weight between my feet seems to be what keeps breaking down every time I actually throw (I think)

I also watched kicking the can and looking back at my video, I don't think I'm kicking the can quite right. Should I focus more on the x step kicking the can or the plant leg kicking the can? Or is the magic missing piece that you are supposed to be able to do both one right after the other?

My last question is regarding when my weight should transfer. From what I am gathering I basically should have all my weight against my right leg BEFORE I start turning to throw, and that what I am unintentionally doing is leaving some of that weigh on my back leg. Would going out and throwing using the one leg drill help me at this point, or do I need to nail down other stuff first?

I know that's a lot of questions and honestly I might not be asking the right questions, but I appreciate everyone's continued advice and help.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1_i_SjQ4vbgc9IofIKlZjFtQwmuUlr-R3