Inconsistent release angles

[tapioh]

Is it partially about this? https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134329

Not that there would not be other things as well, but I think I try to build the momentum by spinning the hips, what is partially creating the problem you described.

Another question, are there specific drills for me that include throwing disc (or some other object)? I have done these "indoors" drills (door frame, swivel stairs etc.) but keep having difficulties incorporating them to the actual throwing motion.

 

[tapioh]

OK, I had a session, where I tried to pay the attention to not lean back and stay at the front of my rear foot during the backswing. Also, I did try out the pendulum backswing. Here are the three last shot of the session:



OK, there are certainly a million things to work on, including the lousy plant of the front foot, bent elbow during the pendulum swing etc., etc., but now I think I sort of understood the concept of the posture here. I could kinda feel the potential energy of the spring building in the rear hip area in pendulum backswing and then releasing that energy during the front foot plant and the throw itself.

The shots themselves were pretty much all around the soccer field, but I will keep working on that.

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't think there's anything wrong with your brace. The problem is your rear leg is pushing too late and pushing you over the front leg or thru it. Need to fall/squat more into rear leg leaving the rear foot before or as you are landing on front foot.

 

[tapioh]

So it is a timing issue? The pressure is shifting from the rear foot onto the front too late?

 

[tapioh]

I did some one-leg drills on the field. A couple of shots from both side and back.





What do you think? The follow-through felt somewhat violent on the shoulder. Most of the shots left on quite a steep hyzer angle.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are taking it too literal. There should be a slight shift or walk back to the right tee side in the backswing. Note how your body moves toward the left tee side in backswing while I'm moving back toward the right tee side. Your weight pressure is staying on your rear toes and increasing, while I'm moving the pressure and rolling back to heel/targetward and then back to toes.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136487

 

[tapioh]

Pretty clear now that you say it.

 

[tapioh]

It was too windy to throw discs today, so I bought a hammer. However, it was too windy for my tripod to stand, but serious hammer throwing footage available on my channel soon, stay tuned.

 

[tapioh]

OK, a couple of hammer throwing sessions behind. Here is video footage from the most recent:



I think this is helping me to envision what the throwing motion is like, though these first sessions did not do miracles on my actual disc throws, but that's expected. The timing with the plant seems to be late no matter what I am throwing, though I did not even try to pay that much attention to that with the hammer throws.

I might have overdone the playing and drills a bit, I guess throwing a heavier object suddenly will take some time for the body to adapt. I threw the hammer maybe fifteen times on Saturday, went to play an eighteen hole round on Sunday, threw twenty hammer throws on Monday and played a twenty hole round on top of that. Now the right deltoid and part of trapezius or whatever are a bit sore.

I even did the elephant walk with the hammer, but on the retrospective, it might not have been the best idea. The momentum of the hammer might be too much for the rotator cuff (I do not really know, please advice if you know).

 

[sidewinder22]

You are only using your arm and shoulder muscles and trying to throw too hard. Should just be an effortless toss, distance is not the goal here, just feel the release. Your shoulders/torso aren't turning to move the arm/hammer unit using the body/core/shift.

You need to drop your right shoulder down under left shoulder, so chest is downward more over top the hammer and spine flexed and the upper arm hangs from the shoulder extended and can swing freely with the body out of the way, and arm/hammer only moves if your body moves. The arm/shoulder muscles only need to be used to maintain structure/power pocket with elbow out/leading. Your elbow is fully extended before it gets to your front foot, need to keep the elbow bent/leading wrist/hammer and shoulder leading everything forward over foot like battering ramming a door with the back of your shoulder.

 

[tapioh]

Heh, yeah, I got caught up in THROWING the hammer once I became an owner of one

Here a bit more thoughtful effort, or at least something that tries to follow your guidlines:





It looks a bit better in the picture as well, but at least the shoulders disturb me somehow.

I also took some very casual and slow shots with a putter to 150' or so and tried to be as late with the backswing in relation to the plant as I ever could, but ARGH it is not working :doh:



I should maybe look forward to finding something with which I could film from a bit higher camera position.

 

[tapioh]

Btw, I just want to post quick thanks for you SW22 about the help I have received. I know the actual short term playing results should not be considered that much when talking about form work, but I cannot not to share how my results have improved since I started posting here. Here is the history from five courses I have played most and the bordered area represents results from this year. This development is super motivating! Last summer I was starting to feel completely lost, when I just shanked shots here and there around the woods. Now I can pretty comfortable manage 240' straight Mako3 shot into relatively tight caps.

 

[sidewinder22]

Still swinging mostly just your arm, but the effort and release looked much better. Need your body to turn to move your arm/hammer/disc. Note how my right shoulder is further away from target than left shoulder, and left shoulder closer to target than my head, and my butt is more facing target - looks like someone is pulling my arm away from target and I'm trying to counter my body against that pull away from target.

You also starting swinging forward well before your front foot planted. Plant then swing. Keep turning back while striding forward.

 

[tapioh]

OK, more effort now concentrating on the body and shoulder movement on the backswing. Also, now I tried to make sure that the plant is not late, well, and I did that but the plant looks funky.



Also I did again a few putter upshots super slowly and making sure that I do not pull before planting. I do not know what to think about those really, maybe do that some more and try speeding up this a bit in next sessions.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah your plant step is really awkward and out of sequence. Your backswing should pick your front foot pulling it away from target initially as the arm passes it similar to Elephant Walk Drill. You are forcibly picking up your front foot before the arm swings past it and nearly taking out your knee right cap, the knee cap should chase the hammer going into flexion/unweighting front foot and mirroring with the rear knee chasing the hammer on froward swing. If the backswing was heavy enough and continued to pull away from target it should pull your front foot/leg back behind rear foot into Hershyzer start position or x-step.

Your up/down motion of CoG is kind of backwards/out of sequence or tune with the swing, you sink down in the backswing instead of rising/extending, and then you rise into the plant instead of lowering.

Let your shoulder hang on the forward swing, don't try to pick the shoulder up and throw on level plane, keep it on hyzer swing plane and loft the hammer upward.

 

[tapioh]

Yeah, I thought that I overcorrect that late plant no matter what. And it felt really awkward too, but then maybe it was a necessary step forward.

Some hammer throwing more. I realized that you SW22 did not do a plant in the hammer toss video, I do not know where I got that from, so I threw these hammers completely standstill. Also, I did the open to closed drill a couple of shots to have a feeling on that plant.

I am on the road and have only my working laptop with me and I have no privileges to install a video edit software, so I just clipped these videos with Youtube editor, but I guess these will do.







My own reflection about that session is that the weight shift in relation to the front leg/foot was working better and the shoulders were involved in the swinging motion.

Let your shoulder hang on the forward swing, don't try to pick the shoulder up and throw on level plane, keep it on hyzer swing plane and loft the hammer upward.

So, I guess doing what you suggested here, would fix this:

Let's concentrate on that next time. I find that in a hammer toss session I should not do more than maybe fifteen tosses per time so I like to work on one thing in each session. It also takes 3-4 throws in the beginning of a session to get the feeling of the thing being worked on.

 

[sidewinder22]

Note how much longer linear distance my right shoulder swings back and forth and the top of pendulum is at same height back and forth. Also note how my body is tilted/hinged forward at the hip toward knee, you can't see my belt buckle, and my rear leg counters behind - like OLD.

Note how much shorter linear distance your shoulder swings back and forth and you and your hammer rise, and your hip/spine extend up humping the goat as we get a good look at your belt buckle. You need to let the hammer pull your shoulders further back almost pull you back into x-step.

It might "feel" over the top to you to really get up on the front leg and hinge at the hip allowing the torso to swing freely over it. This is where the rear leg counter balance behind really helps.

 

[sidewinder22]

If you let the hammer pull you like I am, it will pull behind the body and appear to be rounding, but the upper arm is still wide as the shoulders are massively turned back by the hammer pulling it, so then the swing is more diagonal right to left and there is less redirection needed as the lag still naturally creates in inside-out swing path.

You are trying to manipulate and keep the hammer wide to the left tee pad instead of your upper arm wide and turning further back and then the hammer swings in unnaturally and almost takes out your chest and makes things wonky/too spinny. Your hammer/backswing is lined more to throw more to the right instead of left.

Note how my hammer follows the elbow, elbow follows shoulder/body. Your hammer is moving opposite.

 

[tapioh]

Another day, another hammer toss session.





I tried to work with the issues based on the feedback given. I switched the stance to more closed from the previous sessions. Now watching the videos in slow motion, I can see I miss that hinging/tilting toward the knee in the backswing. I also tried to do what said about the swing path and now I am bringing the hammer more behind myself in the backswing, this can be seen in the backview video.

The majority of the session I spent in trying to keep the shoulders level at the point of release and it was difficult. These two shots are the best and the last shots. If I understood that correctly, the point is to bypass that myotatic reflex, the guy was talking in the golf video. I managed (IMO, at least ) only in those last throws when I had patience to not accelerate the throw at the point of release and tighten my muscles. Those throws were very relaxed with almost no effort at all and flew like 30'.

 

[sidewinder22]

Looking much better. Don't try to keep shoulders level. They should swing in a vertical plane and end up pointed upward to the apex of the trajectory and the hammer needs loft to fly distance.

Swing shoulder over knee.